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dugaal
07-02-2009, 23:19
Haha, well this has nothing to do (or maybe everything...) with existing IG Characters, but Cracked put up an amusing article about real-life military heroes

http://www.cracked.com/article_17019_p2.html

I thought It was interesting. It really shows what crazy men are capable of in war. Anyone questioning 3 wounds for a human model only has to look at some of these men to realize that possibility.

Nakor
08-02-2009, 03:25
that is awesome.

Dictator
08-02-2009, 04:57
I saw this just yesterday. The indian guy is a prime example of how hardcore a human can be

Hicks
08-02-2009, 05:14
Hmmm... is any of that actually true :confused::wtf:

Orkeosaurus
08-02-2009, 05:30
He is best known for saying that "any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed" and, in following with this, for carrying a sword into battle. In WWII. And not one of those sissy ceremonial things the Marines have. No, Jack carried a *********** claymore. And he used it, too. He is credited with capturing a total of 42 Germans and a mortar squad in the middle of the night, using only his sword.This man is Warhammer 40k.

ChaosReigns
08-02-2009, 05:38
I find some of this to be hard to believe. I suppose it could be possible though.

Shangrila
08-02-2009, 05:43
Hmmm... is any of that actually true :confused::wtf:

Audie murphy is one of the highest decorated soldiers ever. He originally tried to join the marines,then navy then army and the army almost sent him to work behind a desk.

Tehkonrad
08-02-2009, 05:50
Wow, they must have like platinum level Manlyness Cards

Reflex
08-02-2009, 06:37
mad jack gives justice to why warhammer 40k has chainswords and powerfists. any one crazy enough to bring a knife to a gunfight is truly truly mad.

laudarkul
08-02-2009, 07:39
Impressive...I mean to came in your line with over 140 prisoners is more like madness...This is perfect for those who cries that humans "are not allowed" to kill marines/dark eldar/orks in this 40k Universe:).

Corax
08-02-2009, 07:48
It also just goes to show that in war, it can be a distinct advantage to be completely barking mad!

I read someone once that many war heroes actually have sociopathic personalities, which means that they don't experience many of the normal emotional responses to the horrors of war.

Caelnaethon
08-02-2009, 11:12
See, this is one of the reasons I'm against twelve-foot-tall titan-punching Primarchs. Human beings can do some pretty amazing things without resorting to god-like superpowers.

Edit:
Also, they left out both Adrian Carton de Wiart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carton_de_Wiart) and Manfred von Richthofen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Baron).

MrBigMr
08-02-2009, 11:55
Häyhä is the man. I mean, the article doesn't put enough emphasis on it, but he actually used a stock M/28 (Finish variant of the Mosin-Nagant), same as all the other soldiers. Not some sniper variant. He could have gotten one, but he peferred his normal gun. Mostly due to him having a lower profile with it (the scope would have been higher than the iron sights).

And yes, Hicks, it's all true. Every last bit of it. I've read about some of these guys years ago and all the facts can be checked from any official record. It's all there. These men are teh win.

leo_neil316
08-02-2009, 13:37
For more examples like this simply hit google up for anyone who's been awarded the medal of honor or victoria cross (or various other countries highest award, those're just the only two I remember).

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CrowningMoment/WarAndPolitics

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CrowningMoment/WorldWarTwo

And theres a few in there too.

Lame Duck
08-02-2009, 16:50
Sneaking suspicion some may be exaggeratted.

Still awesome though.

Col. Tartleton
08-02-2009, 20:25
"Yup big exaggeration. Hayha only killed 702 men, not the 704 he said he did, the lying sack of ****. :confused:"

You can't say that kind of stuff is exaggerated. It may not be 100% recorded, idk, but if there's evidence a single man's kill tally is that close to a thousand people I don't really care if there's minor variances. A god warrior is still a god warrior.

So I'm going to disagree with the feeling that these are blown out of proportion. Hell Audie Murphy even cut out the most heroic things he did because he was to modest to show off how godlike he was.

MrBigMr
08-02-2009, 20:34
It's all in the history books.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4
http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp
http://www.snipercentral.com/snipers.htm#WWII
http://militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/simo_h_yh__the_greatest_sniper_

silence
08-02-2009, 21:05
There has been some pretty awesome soldiers throughout history, it's a shame that so many of there stories will never be told though.

Lambda
08-02-2009, 21:10
This is one of the reasons that i don't have as many problems with the occasional sociopath in 40k that does stuff that seems impossible.

Lame Duck
08-02-2009, 21:34
It's all in the history books.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4
http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp
http://www.snipercentral.com/snipers.htm#WWII
http://militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/simo_h_yh__the_greatest_sniper_

Yes, but how did it get there?


When York said he was American, Vollmer replied "Good Lord! If you won't shoot any more I will make them give up."

Ten minutes later, 133 men came walking towards the remains of York's battalion. Lieutenant Woods, York's superior at first thought it was a German counter-attack until he saw York, who saluted and said "Corporal York reports with prisoners, sir." When the stunned officer asked how many, York replied "Honest, Lieutenant, I don't know."

For the life of me I can't imagine 133(!) armed germans surrendering to any single soldier after begging him not to kill them all.

I can appreciate they were proper badasses, but really? That bit sounds like propaganda.

grissom2006
08-02-2009, 21:38
have to say i'm supprised at how readily some are willing to dismiss just how heroic and stubbornly in human some people can be. do i have to remind people of sir douglas badar lost both his legs and convinced the RAF he could still fly in ww2 became a squadron commander and highly decorated pilot. then got shot down behind enemy lines and beame a pow who escaped 5 times before the germans took his false legs off him. when he was finally freed by allied forces he wanted nothing more to go back to fighting in the war that was still going on in asia.

Nakor
08-02-2009, 22:19
Yes, but how did it get there?



For the life of me I can't imagine 133(!) armed germans surrendering to any single soldier after begging him not to kill them all.

I can appreciate they were proper badasses, but really? That bit sounds like propaganda.

the story there was that the germans knew there was just 1 guy killing them all. thats why they asked to find out if he was american. the germans he caught thought all americans fought like he did (i.e. in freaking power aromor). if just he could munt them like he did, they didnt want to meet the rest of his mates. i saw it on the history channel one time. was great stuff. war kicks ass

edit: looking at the Adrian Carton de Wiart page, im aproximately 100% sure after reading the opening paragraph that this man is commissar yarrick

Lame Duck
08-02-2009, 22:45
have to say i'm supprised at how readily some are willing to dismiss just how heroic and stubbornly in human some people can be. do i have to remind people of sir douglas badar lost both his legs and convinced the RAF he could still fly in ww2 became a squadron commander and highly decorated pilot. then got shot down behind enemy lines and beame a pow who escaped 5 times before the germans took his false legs off him. when he was finally freed by allied forces he wanted nothing more to go back to fighting in the war that was still going on in asia.

I'm not saying they were nothing, far from it. But I'm surprised how readily people will accept stories which may be creatively told (especially when it may be for propaganda purposes) before being recorded.

Douglas' story is believable, it shows just how stubborn a man can be. He escaped prison 5 times, what he didn't do was awe the guards with his awesomeness and get a free ride home.

All I'm saying is maybe he wasn't the lone soldier, or they were also under mortar attack, or they thought there were more and agreed to surrender. But 113 soldiers following one to enemy lines to surrender because he is teh awesome is a bit much.

Also, why would they think all americans fought like him if they had just drove away the rest of his squad platoon/squad?

grissom2006
08-02-2009, 23:17
the falklands war saw a small group of bristish troops storm a beach head the argentines surrendered when asked why it was because they'd just been charged over a mined beach with no loss to the british troops the brits were out numbered and not a shot was fired. in battle strange things happen i should know been in a few war zones

Caelnaethon
08-02-2009, 23:29
I'm not saying they were nothing, far from it. But I'm surprised how readily people will accept stories which may be creatively told (especially when it may be for propaganda purposes) before being recorded.
I find it very interesting to see this level of historiographical scepticism directed at present-day historical records on a forum where so many people consider the records of the highly propagandist Imperium of Man totally beyond reproach. ;)

Lame Duck
08-02-2009, 23:44
the falklands war saw a small group of bristish troops storm a beach head the argentines surrendered when asked why it was because they'd just been charged over a mined beach with no loss to the british troops the brits were out numbered and not a shot was fired. in battle strange things happen i should know been in a few war zones

That doesn't make every wierd/over the top war story true though, does it?

@Caelnaethon: Well, in 40k heroes are however good you want them to be aren't they?

Hellebore
09-02-2009, 00:31
Propaganda works its way into all sorts of things, including and especially historical records.

History is written by the victors and all that. On the other hand, most of the things listed as being done by these men aren't what I'd call impossible, just improbable. Which happens 9 times out of 10.

Hellebore

kikkoman
09-02-2009, 00:34
This man is Warhammer 40k.
too bad he wasn' Warhammer Fantasy though, or his music playing would've routed the germans in combat resolution.



This is perfect for those who cries that humans "are not allowed" to kill marines/dark eldar/orks in this 40k Universe
well to be fair, these examples are humans fighting humans. You could then say things like "every ork is as crazy as that sword wielding scot guy" or "an Eldar ranger is like Simo Hayha"


For the life of me I can't imagine 133(!) armed germans surrendering to any single soldier after begging him not to kill them all.

some people don't feel like dying in war. I've heard a lot of germans towards the end surrendered pretty willingly, knowing they were losing and that the allies didn't treat their prisoners too bad.

gamer2456
09-02-2009, 01:12
Yogendra Singh Yadav is now my hero, he is exactly what every guardsmen should aspire to be.

Lord Merlin
09-02-2009, 04:19
The guy from Shooter is actually from the novel Point of Impact who is in turn base on Carlos Hathcock, with 93 confirmed kills. Seriously like EVERY sniper in a movie in the last fifteen years has been based on this guy. He also made the first and longest sniper kill with a .50 caliber in the 20th century. And keep in mind Hathcock's kill count had to be confirmed by a third party so him and a spotter knocking off someone in the jungle didn't get counted.

ANd one more thing, killing soviets? That's a target rich environment.

Orktavius
09-02-2009, 04:32
Lame Duck, it's not made up, it's in official records, especially the finnish guy, theres official soviet records detailing their bloody attempts to kill the SOB. That being said, it's no wonder you think it's exhagerated the crap these guys pulled off is so mind boggling insane that it's damn near impossible to believe it could be true, but it is true and these men are truely that badass. In regards to the Sergent York thing, York and the 7 remaining men in his group that had gone round to flank the machine guns had already overrun a german command post and captured a fair number of germans. Unfortunately having done that , the machine gun posts on the ridge turned round and started firing at them, *killing the rest of the men that had made it, leaving just york and the 7 aforementioned men* York, calmly while under ridiculous amounts of fire, started picking off german machine gunners one by one with head shots gunning down 28 men in the process. Meanwhile, one of the prisoners that had already been taken, German First Lieutenant Paul Jürgen Vollmer of 1st Battalion, 120th Württemberg Landwehr Regiment, emptied his entire bloody pistol at york while he was trying to deal with the machine guns. After failing to even wound York and watching him cutting down his men like wheat in the harvest he offered to surrender the entire unit to York...and since York had spent the entire time he was blowing away the Germans yelling out for them to surrender *he didn't want to kill more men then needed* he accepted and there you go, 132 prisoners.

As for Simo....he had 500+ CONFIRMED sniper kills, not estimated...confirmed...as well as an additional 150 unconfirmed kills using a sub machine gun. As was already mentioned, the guy used a stock rifle for all his kills, no scope, just the iron sights saying that the scope would force him to hold his head higher making him easier to spot/kill. On top of that glare of the scope could reveal his posistion. The guy was Hardcore, he packed down the snow at his sniping posistion to prevent the snow from popping up and revealing his position when he fired and even kept snow in his mouth so his breath wouldn't mist revealing him.

Lord Merlin
09-02-2009, 04:37
As for Simo....he had 500+ CONFIRMED sniper kills, not estimated...confirmed...as well as an additional 150 unconfirmed kills using a sub machine gun. As was already mentioned, the guy used a stock rifle for all his kills, no scope, just the iron sights saying that the scope would force him to hold his head higher making him easier to spot/kill. On top of that glare of the scope could reveal his posistion. The guy was Hardcore, he packed down the snow at his sniping posistion to prevent the snow from popping up and revealing his position when he fired and even kept snow in his mouth so his breath wouldn't mist revealing him.
Confirmed by who? Finnish authorities who were losing the was in a rather spectacular fashion at the time? No offense, I admit the guy was an incredible soldier. Once again let's point at Carlos and see that he's the most famous and emulated sniper, ever. This is probably just me cheering for the yank but whatever.

dugaal
09-02-2009, 04:43
Glad that link got some discussion going on.
Lame Duck, you have a good point that many war stories are questionable; These however are well documented extraordinary examples, helped out by the amusing editorial insights by the author. I'm just repeating others though.

As an aside on the new Codex; I hope they add a greater variety of Characters like all the more recent codexes, and really highlight some of these hero archetypes.
In a recent thread someone was scoring certain guardsmen's kills over multiple battles. It seemed an interesting way of creating a unique army background, though having a legitimate character to 'count them as' could be even better.

The ridicule for Sly Marbo may have put GW off of the idea... Of course that was a wee bit too blatant I think

Lord Merlin
09-02-2009, 04:45
But the Sly Marbo model is so frikking sweet.

Lambda
09-02-2009, 04:49
Is it really that hard to believe demoralized soldiers will surrender to anything that they think can kill them. A prime example of this is the Persian Gulf war of the early 1990's. Entire Iraqi units that hadn't even sustained casualties surrendered. They did this because they feared their opponents. The same type of fear is what infected the Germans York was killing. In the end they would rather surrender than attempt to fight a man who appeared to be invincible(ie. he had just head shot almost 30 of their friends).

Shangrila
09-02-2009, 04:57
How about Erich Hartmann? 356 confirmed kills! or Gunther Rall with 275.

And i wouldnt say audie murphy or either of Rall or Hartman were "mad". Hans Marseille(SP?) Had 167 kills in Africa before his parachute didnt open after an engine failure.But He had Air to air kills using 17 bullets.(with the cowling mounted 7.62s in his 109F4.) Those are things which are accomplished threw patience and skill.

Orktavius
09-02-2009, 04:59
The finns weren't losing at the time, despite being vastly outnumbered they were taking the Soviets to school. Stalin had just recently purged the upper echelons of the red army...about 50% of the senior officers in fact...read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_war for a little more data. Basically the Red Army was made to look like a joke in that war as despite outnumbering the finns 4:1 on the ground about 30:1 in the air and over 200:1 in the tank department, they spent most of the war getting absolutely PASTED. In the end instead of conquering Finland as they had planned, they offered a deal the Finns took just to end the war before they actually started losing and got 9% of Finland and about 20% of their industrial capacity.

As for who was confirming it...both the finns and the russians were confirming his kills. there's records of the russians sending out kill teams dedicated to trying to bring him down. That being said, with any sniper it is damn near immpossible to get a 100% accurate count, but that goes for fighter pilots and damn near anyone else as well. The man was named the "White Death" by the Russians, not the Finns, there's a limit to how obstinate you can be regarding what the records say these guys did, but even if his numbers are exagerated by nearly 50% that's still around 300 bloody kills in 100 days which is still more then enough long rage death to make him one of the most badass ****'s in history.

starlight
09-02-2009, 05:03
...Carlos Hathcock, with 93 confirmed kills. <snip> He also made the first and longest sniper kill with a .50 caliber in the 20th century.

At one point maybe, but his distance kills have been surpassed a few times over...one of the most recent times being a Canadian team in Afghanistan who took out a mortar unit that was shelling a US company who wasn't in a position to return fire. :D


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper


21st century

Canadian soldier Corporal Rob Furlong, formerly of the PPCLI (Operation Anaconda, Afghanistan) - holds the record for the longest-ever recorded and confirmed sniper kill at 2,430 meters (1.509 miles) using a .50 caliber (12.7 mm) McMillan TAC-50 rifle.

U.S. Army Staff Sergeant Timothy L. Kellner - regarded as one of the top snipers still active in the U.S. Army with 139 confirmed kills and over 100 unconfirmed during Operation Iraqi Freedom

Canadian soldier Master Corporal Arron Perry, formerly of the PPCLI (Operation Anaconda, Afghanistan) - briefly held the record for the longest-ever recorded and confirmed sniper kill at 2,310 meters (1.435 miles) after eclipsing US Marine Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock's previous record of 2,286 meters (1.420 miles) until it was later eclipsed by fellow Canadian Corporal Rob Furlong. Hathcock's record had stood for thirty five years. Perry used a .50 caliber (12.7 mm) McMillan TAC-50 rifle.

dugaal
09-02-2009, 05:28
The thing about those recent records you stated Starlight, is the relative sophistication of equipment, and the theater of operations we are talking about;
I mean sure Afganistan is still unstable and lawless, but it's also totally one-sided when it comes to traditional warfare.

The MacMillan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMillan_Tac-50) Looks like a bad-ass rifle though to be sure. Of course weapons get better, I'm not saying we should even the playing field, but its hard to rate a soldier in this class of men when he has the advantage over his enemies.

starlight
09-02-2009, 05:35
If that's the case then Hathcock's record (and those of earlier snipers) isn't relevant either since he had the technological and force advantage in Vietnam that snipers of earlier wars didn't enjoy...:eyebrows:


Records are always broken, largely in part because soldiers of *modern* times always stand on the shoulders of the giants who went before them...but that doesn't invalidate the facts...

dugaal
09-02-2009, 05:49
I was trying to lessen the technical advantage aspect, (though I guess not enough after I raised the point) and note the one-sidedness of the war. The US got their asses handed to them in nam, despite their overall advantage. On the ground the US army were getting demoralized and picked off, etc.

I agreed to your other statement already, Its not like the Canadian Forces are going to say "Right men! Here are your M-1 Garands! The Afgans are rather poor, so lets be good sports and give them a hand"

Lame Duck
09-02-2009, 14:40
Lame Duck, it's not made up, it's in official records, especially the finnish guy, theres official soviet records detailing their bloody attempts to kill the SOB. That being said, it's no wonder you think it's exhagerated the crap these guys pulled off is so mind boggling insane that it's damn near impossible to believe it could be true, but it is true and these men are truely that badass. In regards to the Sergent York thing, York and the 7 remaining men in his group that had gone round to flank the machine guns had already overrun a german command post and captured a fair number of germans. Unfortunately having done that , the machine gun posts on the ridge turned round and started firing at them, *killing the rest of the men that had made it, leaving just york and the 7 aforementioned men* York, calmly while under ridiculous amounts of fire, started picking off german machine gunners one by one with head shots gunning down 28 men in the process. Meanwhile, one of the prisoners that had already been taken, German First Lieutenant Paul Jürgen Vollmer of 1st Battalion, 120th Württemberg Landwehr Regiment, emptied his entire bloody pistol at york while he was trying to deal with the machine guns. After failing to even wound York and watching him cutting down his men like wheat in the harvest he offered to surrender the entire unit to York...and since York had spent the entire time he was blowing away the Germans yelling out for them to surrender *he didn't want to kill more men then needed* he accepted and there you go, 132 prisoners.

As for Simo....he had 500+ CONFIRMED sniper kills, not estimated...confirmed...as well as an additional 150 unconfirmed kills using a sub machine gun. As was already mentioned, the guy used a stock rifle for all his kills, no scope, just the iron sights saying that the scope would force him to hold his head higher making him easier to spot/kill. On top of that glare of the scope could reveal his posistion. The guy was Hardcore, he packed down the snow at his sniping posistion to prevent the snow from popping up and revealing his position when he fired and even kept snow in his mouth so his breath wouldn't mist revealing him.



For the LAST time, there's a middle ground. I didn't discredit the finnish one because I do beleive it. I'm not calling them lies or even half truths, more just being one take on the story. There's a reason it's the victors who happen to have the most badass men.

What I'm saying here is even official records can be skewed, especially in the WW2 political climate.

With york's it has already changed from being one man to him and seven other, it's the details that matter. He's still incredibly badass so we might as well get the facts straight and look at some instances with scepticism.

Chem-Dog
09-02-2009, 16:34
For more examples like this simply hit google up for anyone who's been awarded the medal of honor or victoria cross

I respectfully enter this chap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Beharry) in for consideration.


"Yup big exaggeration. Hayha only killed 702 men, not the 704 he said he did, the lying sack of ****. :confused:"

I would find it hard to remember exact numbers if I had half of my head missing (not to mention my own name and the correct places to take a dump....)

DarkMatter2
09-02-2009, 16:44
I was trying to lessen the technical advantage aspect, (though I guess not enough after I raised the point) and note the one-sidedness of the war. The US got their asses handed to them in nam, despite their overall advantage. On the ground the US army were getting demoralized and picked off, etc.


America had like a 10 to 1 casualty advantage in the War in Vietnam.

America did not win the war, but damn, I don't think killing millions on their side is "getting their asses handed to them".

starlight
09-02-2009, 16:52
It is when casualties aren't a factor for the other side and they *did* hold the ground at the end. When a third world country runs off a first world country, I'd call it getting their asses handed to them. The US won every major *battle*, but they lost the *war*, mostly because the other guys wanted it more and were willing to pay the price.

DarkMatter2
09-02-2009, 16:59
It is when casualties aren't a factor for the other side and they *did* hold the ground at the end. When a third world country runs off a first world country, I'd call it getting their asses handed to them.

The US won every major *battle*, but they lost the *war*, mostly because the other guys wanted it more and were willing to pay the price.

While I mostly don't disagree, I will say that I am deeply glad that I live in a "soft" country like the US whose power comes from pushing a button and not from placing enough human breasts in front of a machine gun.

The fact that we gave ten times as good as we got and then at the end said, "Aww **** it, this isn't worth it" and left is still better than living in a country where you are expected to give your all in order to install a different dictator that will allow you to live in a different kind of abject poverty.

Wolflord Havoc
09-02-2009, 17:50
One of the things that Hathcock did was to totally re-introduce Snipers into the US Marines - where once again the hierarchy was totally against such methods.

Hancock and his unit showed (what existing military sniper units in other nations already knew) that a sniper pair with a radio could totally dominate an area at a time when the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong were operating with near impunity.

So he was pretty important as far as the US Military was concerned.

Pyriel
09-02-2009, 19:03
For the LAST time, there's a middle ground. I didn't discredit the finnish one because I do beleive it. I'm not calling them lies or even half truths, more just being one take on the story. There's a reason it's the victors who happen to have the most badass men.

What I'm saying here is even official records can be skewed, especially in the WW2 political climate.

With york's it has already changed from being one man to him and seven other, it's the details that matter. He's still incredibly badass so we might as well get the facts straight and look at some instances with scepticism.

not exactly only the victors. there was a German pilot that blew up a
25k-ton russian battleship, and destroyed more than 400 military vehicles. Hitler even invented a new medal for him cause he was "as good as a whole division" as they said.dont get me started on why such stuff are possible, it's too complicated.

Cythus
09-02-2009, 19:19
this makes me want to collect guard even more, only a minor problem: I am the slowest painter in the world and guard armies have hunderds of models.

I really respect all those guys and all are totally badass, but they seem to fall in two catergories: those who are skilled beyond belief with plenty of courage and those who are very skilled with so much courage they are heroic, stupid, mad and fearless all rolled into one perfect mix.

Which catergory would you like to be in?

kikkoman
09-02-2009, 19:25
Just wondering, any amazing records from 'badguys'? These are all from the 'goodguy' sides, or a war the US was not involved in for the Indian guy.

Like WWII Germans or Japanese, or the Vietcong, North Koreans or PRChinese?

Sir Charles
09-02-2009, 20:44
Just wondering, any amazing records from 'badguys'? These are all from the 'goodguy' sides, or a war the US was not involved in for the Indian guy.

Like WWII Germans or Japanese, or the Vietcong, North Koreans or PRChinese?
Someone did bring up the Red Baron a bit earlier in the thread that might qualify.

Freak Ona Leash
09-02-2009, 20:44
Just wondering, any amazing records from 'badguys'? These are all from the 'goodguy' sides, or a war the US was not involved in for the Indian guy.

Like WWII Germans or Japanese, or the Vietcong, North Koreans or PRChinese?

Well, the Japanese are basically 40k incarnate. "BANZAI!" with katanas and all that rot. It probably didn't happen often, but the Japanese did get a few "suicidal charges with large pointy objects" going.

And that Brit with the claymore? I now aspire to be him. It is my goal in life to be a Royal Marine Commando (because the US military won't accept me! Bastages!) and run around with a goddamn sword playing bagpipes and slashing up germans.*

*No offense to anyone, that was all in jest. I realize the RMC is quite beyond my capabilities to enter. And I quite like the germans. Good bunch o' lads. I also do not play the bagpipes.

starlight
09-02-2009, 20:57
A guy who was in my Regiment back in WWI was awarded the Victoria Cross for jumping up on to the top of the trench and marching back and forth, playing the bagpipes while the Germans shot at him. :)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cleland_Richardson


In true Canadian fashion, we named a beer after him. :D


http://www.vanislandbrewery.com/index.php?pageid=2

Freak Ona Leash
09-02-2009, 21:02
Canadians have the most awesome war heroes.

Insanely good snipers and psychotically brave pipers. Its a good thing there aren't too many Canucks. With such men, one might take over the world ;)

kylsnik ironhead
09-02-2009, 21:30
oh jeez Canada has the best snipers in the. world thats just great:rolleyes: sniping is one of the most cowardly ways of killing people in war

Bloodknight
09-02-2009, 21:31
@Kikkoman:

Germans:
the Red Baron, super-ace of WWI
Hartmann, greatest ace of all times
Michael Wittmann, tank ace with over 100 kills, and he was only the Tiger-Commander with the fifthmost kills...(Forgeworld based Baneblade-Ace Weisemann on him)

The Russians didn't have aces of that caliber, mainly because their environment wasn't as target-rich as the German, and the Germans had more practice.

noobzor
09-02-2009, 21:34
LOLZ!

But about the guy that captured 133 germans, it's because the germans decided that they didn't really want to fight the americans, especially when Russia was involved, and they would rather finish the war in a decent POW camp than being yelled at by superiors or getting shot at by said allies.

It is incredible how many germans simply surrendered instead of fighting. Shows why commisars are so useful :)


Also, snipers may be cowardly, but they are the most psychologically effective as well.
At least you can see a maniac with a knife. With a sniper, you might never hear a sound. :)

silence
09-02-2009, 21:43
Otto Skorzeny for the Germans in WW2, excellent Commando.

Brother Loki
09-02-2009, 21:46
How is spending days out beyond your own army's lines, hunting targets of opportunity, with maybe one other person, cowardly?

starlight
09-02-2009, 21:48
I guess real men must beat each other to death with their rifle butts...you know, just like in 40K...:p

:rolleyes:

Freak Ona Leash
09-02-2009, 22:01
oh jeez Canada has the best snipers in the. world thats just great:rolleyes: sniping is one of the most cowardly ways of killing people in war

You may not be an idiot, but what you just said certainly is worthy of the title.

Bretonnian Lord
09-02-2009, 22:32
I'm surprised Carlos Hathcock didn't make the list.

Then again, there's no denying that all five of those men were *********** BAMFs. Especially Audie Murphy, he's a hero to me.

Applesauceninja
09-02-2009, 22:34
This reminds me of the time when one of my tactical marines killed both my friends dreadnoughts and his commander in a lascannon and came in close combat with a terminator squad and won with no help of his dead squad mates. not nearly as awesome as any of those guys though

starlight
09-02-2009, 22:35
There's nothing saying he didn't miss the cut by a hair's breadth and have to settle for sixth place...:)


Applesauceninja: Borderline Spam, and not good Spam at that...:eyebrows:

Malice313
09-02-2009, 22:36
oh jeez Canada has the best snipers in the. world thats just great:rolleyes: sniping is one of the most cowardly ways of killing people in war

Yeeeees! Because dropping incendiary cluster munitions on people with smart bombs from a guidance drone is a real man's way of fighting.:wtf:

Is it guys like you who sign up and get discharged with post traumatic stress syndrome when they find out just how tragically horrific war actually is? :eyebrows:

Freak Ona Leash
09-02-2009, 22:39
Yeeeees! Because dropping incendiary cluster munitions on people with smart bombs from a guidance drone is a real man's way of fighting.:wtf:

Is it guys like you who sign up and get discharged with post traumatic stress syndrome when they find out just how tragically horrific war actually is? :eyebrows:

To be fair to PTSD-sufferers, he would be the type of person who just straight up dies. Probably due to sniper-fire. Because God appreciates irony.

starlight
09-02-2009, 22:40
Yes, yes she does. :)


Not that this says anything about normal people:p, but there was a girl in my unit many years ago who complained that we had to *gasp* :eek: wear camouflage paint on our faces!, and *horrors*! carry GUNS!:eek: when we went into the field! :eek:


Not sure what she thought she was signing up for when she walked into the RECRUITING office...:rolleyes:

Freak Ona Leash
09-02-2009, 22:42
Not that this says anything about normal people:p, but there was a girl in my unit many years ago who complained that we had to *gasp* :eek: wear camouflage paint on our faces, and *horrors*!:eek: carry GUNS!:eek: when we went into the field! :eek:


Not sure what she thought she was signing up for when she walked into the RECRUITING office...:rolleyes:

Not that I could ever join the military (pesky bipolar disorder precludes me from anything involving guns! Something about manic/depressive men with weapons or some rot like that) but really. Some people just amaze me with the amount of vitriolic hatred they make me feel towards the state of the human species these days.

EDIT: And just because I like to stay on topic: I still stand behind Captain Claymore as the model for all men ever to bear the title "Man." Bagpipes, balls and blades: the three defining traits of "Real MEN!" (TM)

Sir Charles
09-02-2009, 23:10
A guy who was in my Regiment back in WWI was awarded the Victoria Cross for jumping up on to the top of the trench and marching back and forth, playing the bagpipes while the Germans shot at him. :)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cleland_Richardson


In true Canadian fashion, we named a beer after him. :D


http://www.vanislandbrewery.com/index.php?pageid=2Not really combat related, but the story on how his pipes were retrieved to Canada is pretty cool. Likewise if you go to Jack Churchill's wiki page he did some pretty cool stuff after the war, although not as heartwarming as the bagpipe story.

starlight
09-02-2009, 23:42
Yup. Pipe Major McGuire brought them home just after I left, but the place was abuzz while I was still there. :) Pretty cool time to be around. :D

Chaplain Dionitas
09-02-2009, 23:58
Seriously, watch what you say about the PTSD please. Unless you've been there, then please don't pipe up about it. I have good buddies I served with that still suffer from it.

starlight
10-02-2009, 00:06
As someone who has dealt with it *and* counseled others through aspects of it, nothing that's been said here is offensive.


However, it is off topic and best left for another Thread.

Lame Duck
10-02-2009, 01:14
Yes, yes she does. :)


Not that this says anything about normal people:p, but there was a girl in my unit many years ago who complained that we had to *gasp* :eek: wear camouflage paint on our faces!, and *horrors*! carry GUNS!:eek: when we went into the field! :eek:


Not sure what she thought she was signing up for when she walked into the RECRUITING office...:rolleyes:

Well, when you see army jobsbeing advertised on the tv (at least in the uk) you can't really blame her.

starlight
10-02-2009, 01:17
This was long before they started doing that over here...


...and ours exhort you to *Fight Chaos*!:eek: So I'd think you'd figure what was up...;)

Fafner_Ni
10-02-2009, 02:45
Can't belive that Robert Blair "Paddy" Mayne was not in that list. :wtf:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Mayne

kikkoman
10-02-2009, 02:52
Well, when you see army jobsbeing advertised on the tv (at least in the uk) you can't really blame her.

Join the marines, defend America from giant lava monsters with your sword of justice!

starlight
10-02-2009, 02:55
Not enough Irishmen in these parts? :p


Soldiers like any of these lot would be welcome in any unit I'm in. :D

starlight
10-02-2009, 04:21
Yes, Spam Posts are being deleted...


On Topic, if you please...:eyebrows:

pookie
10-02-2009, 13:52
It also just goes to show that in war, it can be a distinct advantage to be completely barking mad!

I read someone once that many war heroes actually have sociopathic personalities, which means that they don't experience many of the normal emotional responses to the horrors of war.

iirc 90% (opr some high amount) of the people that survived the Normandy Landings, went on to survive the War, this was soley because they were Barking Mad!

vforvenator
10-02-2009, 14:35
Yeah, this is all inspiring bravery and says a lot for people, but questionably so- if it weren't for their respective conflicts, or simply for having decided to sign up, how many of these guys would simply have ended up in prison as reckless thugs or worse?

starlight
10-02-2009, 14:44
That's long been recognised. :p

Pyriel
11-02-2009, 12:17
The reason people can't accept sniping as a brave way to fight is that regular people are usually only familiar with hand-to-hand, or sometimes target-practicing.they dont know how DEVASTATING it is to receive real fire from an enemy, to hide and know that if the enemy finds you, you're on your own.

I do NOT claim to be such a "warrior", but my grandfather, who won a medal in WWII, has described me some stories . War is not boxing.War is not swordsmanship.War is not ranged fighting either, unlike what people think. War is not fighting at all; It's surviving against odds, surpassing your fears when you see tens of thousands of enemies advancing and knowing you have to trust your officers and hold the line until they tell you, etc.

Thats why being a good soldier is 99% mentality and only 1% actual fighting skills(both ranged and hth, such a small importance anyway).Cause, in real life, "failing morale checks" is the RULE, not the exception. And that, standing strong against a bombardment, flying a bomber while receiving anti-air missiles or sniping while behind enemy lines, and other modern warfare tactics, is not cowardice.It's the very definition of bravery.

Brother Captain
11-02-2009, 20:09
What is very interesting is how you can visualise them in the 40k setting. As I read their stories I had a clear idea of how I would model them if I had to represent them. A great inspiration for conversons and homegrown rulles.

Thanks dugaal!