View Full Version : I am just starting out, can not decide army.

08-02-2009, 01:28
I have played some games in 40k and i have most of the rules down, so i thought i would start to get my own army instid of playing my friends necrons and Orks but im not sure what to get. The kind of army i want to play is some sort of assualt army that relies more on elite troops, not a swarm/ horde army like orks or tyranids but something more elite and less numbers. i was thinking maby space wolves or daemon hunters but i dont know much about any of the races so Id like to know what peoples opinions were on this problem i was having?
what ever army id like to use, id to know more about since i almost know nothing about the races. i like how the GK's look and i love reading about inquisitors but on the space wolf side of things i find some of the models sort of wierd some times but fluff wise there my favorite. i have read ALOT of books involving the space wolves. a third army i have been considering is chaos daemons. my friend doesnt really like them even though he spent over $200 dollars on them (flamers of tzeenetch(not sure on spelling) soul grinder, greater daemon of nurgle, and 3-4 boxes of blood letter). if i got ahould of them i was thinking of a nurgle/slaneesh/tzeenetch combe by having the nurgle peopole drop in first turn followed by having my slaneeshi models and tzeenetch models come in after. the role of the nurgle units would be to clame objectives and a potential "wall" to put behind my enemy while my slannesh models would use pavane of slannesh to make my enemy's units dance toward the nurgle models while tzeenetch modles sort of jump around and kill major threats and gemerally reak havoc. if my opponent likes to run he would end of stuck with a wall of the nurgle basic troop people that have fnp while my deamonetts race on the otherside and massacure through his stuff. my hq would end up being the one person that allows me to reroll failed invulnerable saves. i know soo much about daemons because i read the codex some but never tried them out. i also know a good bit about the space wolves since i read alot in there codex and made a few list for them two. the only armys i will not tuch are basic space marines and regular eldar since space marines are way to overly played and i looked at the eldar codex and got a headache every time i saw it. what ever army you think i should probably try out can you perhaps tell me there

(1) strengths and weakness

(2) how much it might cost to get an effective army for around 1500

08-02-2009, 01:58
I've been in the same boat for awhile, just getting into the hobby and trying to decide on an army. I really like Space Wolves personally, after having read almost all of the Space Wolf Omnibus so far. While Space Marines are popular, Space Wolves themselves seem fairly rare and they are about as far away from vanilla marines you can get while still being marines. They definitely have their own flavor and culture, and on the tabletop they seem pretty solid too. The updated Codex will be welcome though, as many rules are outdated. I would stick with the basics for now like Blood Claws, Grey Hunters, Wolf Lords/Battle Leaders and varieties of Dreadnoughts, vehicles and such. This way you can be sure that you won't have too many if any outdated minis when the new codex comes out. Right now we get all of the new SM book's vehicles, Dreads and such (see the SW FAQ), so that's a nice bonus to make up for the fact that many of our units in the SW codex itself are way overpriced compared to regular SM.

Daemons are pretty cool, and if you put them on square bases you can use them for both Fantasy and 40k. So not only are they one of the cheapest 40k armies to begin with, you also basically get a 2-for-1 deal if you play Fantasy. These guys were in my top 3 for consideration, but I don't like the way they deploy in 40k. Deep Striking everything just puts way too much in the hands of the dice. On the other hand, everything deep striking can get your units in peoples' faces pretty quick, but it is at best a mixed blessing.

I don't know much about the Daemon Hunters because I don't have their codex, but I haven't heard anything good about them really.

08-02-2009, 02:09
the thing with daemons is that if you have the two groups mixed up good enough, you can stall if you need to while power house units come in, ii mean a squad or 3 of plauge people in the enemys face, or better yet, objective, will slow down any one, even more so if you have half there army dancing around like fools with pavane and then moping anything else up with daemonettes and plauge people. from what i have seen people do with the daemons, they have the ability to be extremely fun if you dont mind getting horribly unlucky every so often Ra.

Private Ginger
08-02-2009, 02:23
Well, in a combat situation what would you do?
a) Charge forward and kill everything with knives and bayonets?
b) Sit back and open fire with ranged weapons.
c) A mix of both.
d) Call in artillery and elite units.
e) Move steadily forward, firing as you go.

08-02-2009, 02:50
sorta a mix between A and D

Private Ginger
08-02-2009, 02:59
Ah, ok. Go for either your Space Wolves(who have Whirlwinds*, and are great in Close Combat). Or go for the Imperial Guard(who have a large amount of artillery).
*Missile launchers mounted on a converted Rhino chassis.

08-02-2009, 03:07
the thing is that there are alot of armys that focus on shooting, i think like 2 necrons, the normal 4-5 SM and like 3 guard on top of a couple orks andother races played(i went with my friends up to the FLGS a couple of times) and i really want to play a army that like to run forward and have there highly trained units bash the enemys head in, and from what i have read that is exactly what the space wolves and daemons do. GK's seem to do that also (NFM giving them all +2 str, so there str is normally 6) and the GK's shrouding ability make it seem hundreds ov time harder to hit in ranged.

Private Ginger
08-02-2009, 03:27
I once killed a whole squad of GKs due to bolt pistol fire. They're actually one of the best types of Space marines in the game if used correctly. To do this, you keep moving, firing SBs w/ True Grit, then charge.

Far Seer
08-02-2009, 04:32
Well i collect Blood Angels which is a company of the space marines, they are an assault army with plenty of good assaulty guys and u can bring many of them into battle really quickly with the help of their really fast rhinos ( have overcharged engines special rule allows rhino to move up to 18 inches) and they are one of the armies that basically always gets outnumbered.
their strengths lie in fast, strong assaulting so u can have assault marines as a troop choice and are pretty good at shooting. Their weaknessess is that most blood angels players get carried away a lot and include lots and lots of assaulting guys but rarely any heavy anti-tank support so if a powerfully armoured land raider or monolith is in the enemy's army ur doomed. so that's why i always bring a few attack bikes with multimeltas and a few lascannons to deal with this armoured problem. oh i didn't see that question about how much an army of 1500 points cost. well that depends entirely on what you want to include in your army, whether it is a lot of expensive units like terminators or generally cheap units like scouts and tactical squads. look here at my army list if you are interested in blood angels http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182307

Madgear Thundaklutch
08-02-2009, 05:20
I have to do it, I have to suggest Deathwing. Its a fun army to play, low model count, effective, and looks damn good on the table. You can run them as a shooty army, or a mech assault army, both are quite fun.

I also suggest a mech-ork list, you can run them elite heavy, my list contains 2 warbosses, 3 squads of trukk boyz, 2 nob squads as its base, all troops.

08-02-2009, 06:48
Inquisitor ra if you in the SD area ill let you play one of my armies... I have aplayable force of everything but orks and DE.

save that pick cool minis? Since if you want a running assaulting army you could just do a pure khorne CSM force including deamons. that and the new brass scorpion came out.

08-02-2009, 14:48
Srry I live close to pittsburgh, PA. ill have to look up some stuff up gor blood angels and deathwing stuff. orks seemed nice to and i have played a couple games with them.

Private Ginger
08-02-2009, 14:56
There's a GW store in Philadelphia. I live in Pa too, I should know.

08-02-2009, 15:04
ya philadelphia is like a 4-5 hour drive unfortunally. the closet place that sells and plays WH40K is about a 30 min drive from where i live tho so i usually go there

08-02-2009, 16:05
what about eldar...i mean is there an army that is more elite than them?
they can easily go assault with loads of banshees and scorpions and arent too expensive with dire avengers as troops.

08-02-2009, 16:25
There's a GW store in Philadelphia. I live in Pa too, I should know.

Seriously? Are you talking about the Franklin Mills store, or something else?

08-02-2009, 16:52
Orks and Marines are inexpensive (for GW, anyway), and you can get a great start to an army if you buy two Assault on Black Reach sets (split the other half with a friend and now you've both got a good start to an army). The other armies will be a bit more expensive, because you can't take advantage of the huge AoBR savings.

Here's a quick run-down of the armies as I see them:

Space Marines: The standard. Very durable with good firepower and some of the best leadership in the game. They are moderate in assault.

Space Wolves: Soon to be updated. The current Space Wolf list is very powerful, but very old. None of the tricks that work currently for Space Wolves will work when the new book comes out, almost guaranteed. So beware if you want to play them, whatever is awesome now might not be so awesome in 6 months. They play much like standard Space Marines, but with fewer options and better overall in hand to hand.

Black Templars: Like Space Wolves, they have fewer overall options but are better in hand to hand than regular Marines. Unlike Space Wolves, they are probably NOT on the list to be redesigned any time soon. You could probably build an army of these and not have to worry about your army becoming outdated for 3 or 4 years. Black Templars, however, really lack a lot of long-ranged firepower. They will often be at a disadvantage against armies that are pure dedicated HTH specialists (like Tyranids).

Dark Angels: A specialized Marine chapter. They offer few real advantages over Space Marines except the ability to take Terminators as troops. A smidgen weaker than regular Space Marines, army-wise.

Blood Angels: A dedicated Marine HTH army, like Black Templars or Space Wolves. They have lots of jump troops, so they are a bit faster. They are more expensive than regular Marines, but they do not have the weaknesses that Templars do with lacking long-range firepower.

Imperial Guard: A new codex is coming out in May. Regardless, they have lots of men and lots of tanks. A shooty horde army. Bad in close combat.

Demonhunters: A more elite version of regular Space Marines. They have even better equipment and extra special rules. They also cost a lot more points, meaning these armies usually very small.

Witchhunters: An army of short-range firepower. Decent durability, but bad in hand to hand.

Orks: Perhaps the new gold standard as far as powerful armies go. A powerful horde of hand to hand troops with decent long range shooting. They have a problem dealing with AV 14 vehicles.

Tyranids: Possibly have a new army book coming soon. They have several very powerful, very dangerous army builds. They have very good shooting and are a nightmare in HTH. Can be a bit boring to me because most games seem to devolve into "run across the board and hope you have enough left alive when you hit HTH".

Eldar: Fast and elite. They can out-shoot almost any other army. They can out-assault almost any other army. They are fast and durable. They are also very specialized and very expensive. An Eldar army with the correct pieces in place is very dangerous. An Eldar army without the correct pieces in place is dead. You can do everything well, but not all at the same time.

Dark Eldar: Benefits from being the oldest codex. Rules changes over the years have resulted in some of their units being worthless, while others become much more dangerous than they used to be. A one-trick pony, but it's a good trick. Very fast, very fragile, very good in hand to hand.

Demons: Weird. The newest army overall (I know the new Marine book is newer, but Marines didn't change much). Brutal in hand to hand, weak in shooting, and their unique deployment rules mean that these play very differently than other armies. I think it will take a while before people find the trick of consistently winning with demons.

Tau: The weakest army in hand to hand. Nearly the strongest in shooting.

Necrons: More durable than Marines, but worse in hand to hand. Very good shooting, but their armies can become one-dimensional. Like Nids, can be boring because every game is the same.

Chaos: Like Marines, only evil. They can be brutal in assault, are very durable, and have great shooting. Personally, based on your description of what you want, I think you should look at these guys. Many Chaos players are unhappy because the current codex isn't as detailed as the last one, but it is still a solid and competitive army.

Grand Master Raziel
08-02-2009, 16:58
Inquisitor_Ra, it sounds like you might dig the Black Templars. They're also a very close-combat fighty army, but less space-Viking (a la the Space Wolves) and more space knight. Here's a link (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1040031&rootCatGameStyle=) to let you check out some of their stuff. You can get Troops choices with pistol-ccw and mount them in Rhinos (or LRCs if you're of a mind) to get stuck in as quickly as possible, and back them up with gun tanks and Dreadnoughts. The Emperor's Champion is a pretty sweet model, too. Also, the BTs get some unique rules that other SM armies don't get. They get access to armywide Vows that give them some extra mojo, plus squads that take casualties tend to get extra movement towards the enemy, which lets you get into close combat faster.

So, the upsides:
1: Close combaty goodness
2: Extra HQ (the Emperor's Champion)
3: Vows
4: You killed Lars! We'll get you for that!

The downsides:
1: Light in the shooting (compared to other SM armies)
2: No Librarians
3: An opponent who's familiar with your army's rules can manipulate them to his advantage - for instance, a squad that takes even a single casualty will move, either falling back or making a "We'll get you for that! (not the rule's actual name)" move.
4: You have to remember to pay extra points for stuff like frag grenades.

08-02-2009, 17:14
Massey put it together pretty nicely. Play what you want to paint too.

08-02-2009, 17:39
Eldar: Fast and elite. They can out-shoot almost any other army. They can out-assault almost any other army. They are fast and durable. They are also very specialized and very expensive. An Eldar army with the correct pieces in place is very dangerous. An Eldar army without the correct pieces in place is dead. You can do everything well, but not all at the same time.

Chaos: Like Marines, only evil. They can be brutal in assault, are very durable, and have great shooting. Personally, based on your description of what you want, I think you should look at these guys. Many Chaos players are unhappy because the current codex isn't as detailed as the last one, but it is still a solid and competitive army.

If you are on a budget, I suggest NOT doing Eldar. They seem to fit your description, however you need to have a lot of stuff so that you can change your army around. It's the ultimate swiss-army knife army, you can custom build your strengths and weaknesses as you see fit... if you have the cash.

Also, Chaos Space Marines seems good based on your description. The "new" codex (it hurts to call it a codex - as a cult player), fits fine with how GW wants us to use Chaos Marines... renegade marines. If that's your thing, then great. It is perfectly playable as an army, as long as you don't want to do a pure cult list.

Space Wolves would fit too... but as already noted, you'd have to be careful here. That's a codex that due to be out by year end (as the rumours go). You'd probably be safe with things like Blood Claws and Grey Hunters... but I suspect that there will be quite a few changes to that army.

I can't really speak on Daemons, as I've never played them... or even seen them played (been too busy the last 6 months)... but if you like playing them, getting a deal on a pile of stuff should also be given some consideration.

In the end, you have to play what you will enjoy painting as well as playing... so make sure you take that into account as well.

08-02-2009, 18:57
ok so far from what i have read, i have narrowed it down to a couple of races im still thinking about. i have narrowed it down to
(1) space wolves, because as i said earlyer i love there playstyle and i love there fluff even more. I play with my friends alot so when there new codex comes out and it changes alot whith what ever i bought, they would let me use the old codex untill i got a good army in new one if everything changes.

(2) chaos space marines. i read some stuff in there codex and im starting to love how much the whole thousand sons are with there sorcer everywhere. and for assualt a 30 pt terminator with a MoK for the +1a or the MoT for the 4+ invulnuerable which means they dont get cut down by my friends howling banshees or rended mygeno steelers. i like the chorne berzekers and the noise marines and even the plauge marines. i would probable go with a couple squads of those 3. warptime + bezerkers and noise marines sown really good.

(3)daemons. i have read alot on them and next time i go to my friends hose im probably going to try them out. i seem some nice potenetial with a squad of plauge baeeres, oracle and some pink horrors and flamers coming down first wave whiel slaneeshi and knorne stuff come in after that. the onjly yhting that i dont like about them is that the chaos space marines have lash where it forces a movement of 2d6 while pavane forces a movement of 1. the gods gifted the humans more then there servents with that one.

i havent even heard much on the black templars so im not sure on what goess on with them. im probable going to look for some battles from then after i post this for about an hour.

08-02-2009, 19:23
Based on your description I would defently put the Chaos space marines high on the list.
They are very versatile, if you build them for assault, they will most likely be able to win in assault even against specialized assault armies like orks & some marines.

They can also easely be build as a good range force, though here they do not come out on the very top, but are defently strong.

They have few artillery weapons.
and their major drawback is that many opponents will yell cheese at you even before you have sat down your models. The unfamous Lash of Submission is still to this day the single most questioned item/gear/phycic power. But ofcouse noone forces you to use it.

I would warn against deamons, not that I have much experience with them on my own, but the special way the work is not a beginners best place to start.
You do it wrong or mix your list badly and the deamons will get slaugthered.

08-02-2009, 19:59
ya i like how the chaos space marines work. i might stay away from lash for the friendly games, but ill probably always use warptime. and the one ability to turn some1 into a chaos spawn, do i pick which model gets transformed, like if i wanted to pick the tyrant to get turned into a warp spawn and not the guard he might be with?
dark templat sound nice. my biggest issue with them is the fact the if any unit dies of a shooting attacki have to take a LD test and that the troops are a mixed squad of couts and marines pratically.

08-02-2009, 20:22
Chaos Sorcerer with familiar

= 6 Chaos Terminators with a variety of power fists, lightning claws, combi weapons, etc.

= 10 Chaos Space marines with mark of slaanesh. Aspring Champion with power weapon. Lascannon and plasma gun.

= 6 Chaos Space marines with mark of undivided. Aspiring Champion with power fist and combi weapon. meltagun

= 6 Possessed Chaos Space marines with mark of slaanesh. Aspiring Champion.

= 5 Chaos Space Marines with mark of undivided. Aspiring champion with power fist. meltagun.

= Chaos Defiler

= Chaos Land Raider

= 5 Noise marines with Aspiring champion with power weapon. 1 blast master and 2 sonic blasters

= 5 Noise Marines with Aspiring Champion with power weapon. 1 blast master and 1 sonic blaster.

= Chaos Spawn

= 2 Chaos Rhinos

How Does This Sound For 270

08-02-2009, 23:28
if you go to the war gaming store you can order the renagade strike force and get a codex and large carrying case for 282 if you dont have a carry case. if you do, then i would say get the renagade strike force then 3 obliterators and a box of thousand sons or regular marines

Private Ginger
09-02-2009, 00:40
Seriously? Are you talking about the Franklin Mills store, or something else?
Yes, I'm talking about the Franklin Mills store.