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vamp
08-02-2009, 04:25
New here have a question.


I understand the bonus for flank attacks. I do not understand how long does the flank attack last for? Does it last for the entire combat? Is the unit struck in the flank able to reform?


Can you reform in hand to hand combat in anyway to increase your facing or expand your ranks?



Please tell me what page in the hardback rulebook you find your answers if you might. I like to be able to read the rules for myself and understand them so I can show my play group from the book and not just say " hey these guys on warseer told me". With Appreciation and thanks.


Vamp

Neckutter
08-02-2009, 04:30
it last for as long as the unit has US of 5. remember that ranks are calculated before HtH is fought, and the +1 for flanking is calculated after. it would be in the section of close combat, near the end the "modifiers" page.

if your unit is flanked, and you win combat, you can turn to face your attacker, and thus nullify their advantage as well.


all of your questions would be answered by reading that specific section of the BrB

Dokushin
08-02-2009, 04:36
p38 of the BRB talks about all the combat resolution bonuses, including Flanking and Rear Charges.

(p67 has an oft-overlooked rule stating skirmishers cannot negate the rank bonus of enemy troops by fighting to their flank or rear.)

p46 has the rules for Free Manoeuvres, which includes turning to face a flanking enemy if (and only if) you win combat.

vamp
08-02-2009, 15:56
Ok got that. Its a big book and Im really green to this game obviously so I ask another question.

Where do you find the rule that says you calculate rank bonus Before combat?

Im wondering what else is calculated before the combat as well. Standards? Outnumbering enemy? Extra Rank?


And the skirmish thing has me confused. Units that are flanked do not gain a rank bonus? If so where is this at?


Sorry its alot to digest for me at the present and the book is big and intimidating.

Mr_Rose
08-02-2009, 16:03
Ok got that. Its a big book and Im really green to this game obviously so I ask another question.

Where do you find the rule that says you calculate rank bonus Before combat?

Im wondering what else is calculated before the combat as well. Standards? Outnumbering enemy? Extra Rank?


And the skirmish thing has me confused. Units that are flanked do not gain a rank bonus? If so where is this at?


Sorry its alot to digest for me at the present and the book is big and intimidating.
All the answers to those questions are on page 38 of the BRB, except the one about skirmishers not cancelling rank bonuses, which is on p. 67.

Dokushin
08-02-2009, 16:08
Where do you find the rule that says you calculate rank bonus Before combat?
Specified under Extra Rank on page 38, "...for each rank behind the first that the unit had at the start of that combat turn..."


Im wondering what else is calculated before the combat as well. Standards? Outnumbering enemy? Extra Rank?
As far as I know rank bonus is the only bonus calculated from the unit's status at the start of the combat. Everything else is used as things are after the end of CC.



And the skirmish thing has me confused. Units that are flanked do not gain a rank bonus? If so where is this at?
Same place, page 38, Extra Rank, "This bonus is lost if the unit is fighting to its flank or rear against an enemy unit with a unit strength of 5 or more." Anytime a unit is flanked by US5 or greater they do not get their rank bonus. People call this 'breaking ranks.'
However, Skirmishers don't break ranks, which is specified, confusingly, elsewhere: p67, Close Combat, second column: "Skirmishers do not negate the rank bonus of enemy units when fighting them in the flank or rear."


Just have a good readthrough, play some games, read again and you'll catch stuff you missed.

vamp
08-02-2009, 17:07
I am not being lazy. I have read it all thrue once already and played 2 games of battle for skull pass with a new friend as well. It's just alot to digest all at once. Guess I may need to read it thrue a second time.

Thanks for the patience and the help.
It is appreciated.

Neckutter
08-02-2009, 20:09
welcome to the game. it is indeed a very fun game that is really worthwhile in all aspects: playing/modeling/painting/socializing.

stripsteak
09-02-2009, 04:22
p46 has the rules for Free Manoeuvres, which includes turning to face a flanking enemy if (and only if) you win combat.
make sure to read the rules for a 'turn' maneuver. this one thing i think a lot of people miss when they first start playing.

Bodysnatcher
09-02-2009, 07:55
The free turn for winning can be handy for monsters that don't have symmetrical bases (i.e. H. Elf dragon) because it greatly reduces their frontage.

enyoss
09-02-2009, 10:05
The free turn for winning can be handy for monsters that don't have symmetrical bases (i.e. H. Elf dragon) because it greatly reduces their frontage.

Unfortunately not, as you can only perform the turn if it does not reduce the number of models which can fight (from either side).

That part of the free manoeuvre rule is almost universally overlooked and played incorrectly. Discussion on this can be found here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180540

Cheers,

enyoss

stripsteak
09-02-2009, 15:46
^^ that was was errated out in the first errata. the free manevuers can now be performed without having to bring more bases into contact.

enyoss
09-02-2009, 16:07
^^ that was was errated out in the first errata. the free manevuers can now be performed without having to bring more bases into contact.

Ah, but by turning the Dragon in the way described above, the problem isn't that you're not bringing more bases into contact but that you're reducing the number already in contact.

Cheers,

enyoss

Asmodiseus
09-02-2009, 16:17
The last sentence of the rule states:

"The cannot be executed if the winning unit is engaged on two or more sides or if the maneuver would result in reducing the number of models in base combat with the enemy."

Obviously if you turn your dragon you are not reducing the number of models in base contact with your enemy. The question is does a rule that is clearly written to apply for one party (ie the winning side) have equal effect on a second party (the losing side) or to put it another way, does the fact that you will be reducing the number of your enemies models in base contact with their enemy prevent you from doing the turn maneuver.