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meanmachine
08-02-2009, 11:19
hi i'm starting the new lizardmen there are a few things that i need some help with bear in mind i've only played 40k never fantasy

1) in a 2000 point game will i only be able to field 1 carnosaur model (somone on warseer earlier mentioned kroq-gar lets you take more but his rules say saurus calvary i thought they are cold ones)

2) if i give my oldblood the blade of realities and a 2nd ccw will he get 6 realities attacks or 5 plus 1 mundane weapon attack

3)if i give my oldblood the blade of realities and a 2nd ccw, can i give the 2nd weapon venom of the firefly frog, if yes how do i work out the attacks (6 with either weapon or 5 with one and 1 with the other)

4) if i give my oldblood the maiming shield do i roll a seperate dice for it as it says THIS ATTACK COUNTS AS MAGICAL, its doesn't make all his attacks magical does it

5) is the oldblood allowed anything from the whole magic section, or is he not allowed things like arcane items or talimans

thanks very much

p.s could you give me some ideas on how to make descent max calvary armies in lizardmen

Mr_Rose
08-02-2009, 11:25
1. Nothing I can see lets you take an extra carnosaur with Kroq-gar; he's an Oldblood special character who takes up slots as normal.

2. No. You can never get any bonuses for extra hand weapons and so on with a Magic Weapon.

3. You can, but there will be no additional effect to work out, unless someone breaks the blade with Law of Gold or something, as the guy with he Blade of Realities will have no mundane attacks to make.

4. If you have the Maiming Shield, you do indeed roll an extra dice, which will have to be clearly identified because it has different statistics to their other attacks.

5. Only Wizards can ever take Arcane items, per the Rulebook. There aren't any other general restrictions, just specific ones (like the stegadon helm being Skinks only).

Necromancy Black
08-02-2009, 11:45
1. no

2, 3: Ok, the thing to remember is you have to use magic weapons over mundane weapons. The second thing to remember is that magic weapon do not have any of the rules of their mundane counterparts unless stated so. The Blade of Realities does not count as a Hand Weapon. Therefor if you try and use an extra one you are in fact only using a single hand weapon and a magic weapon. The single hand weapon does nothing at all in this case.

Also, Vemon of teh Firefly Frog does not make the weapons magic, it makes the attack magic, so the rule that you ahve to use Magic Weapons over Mundane ones still stands.

4. Yes, the shields attack should be rolled seperate or with a different coloured dice because it will either be magical when your other attacks are not, or your other attacks will have different magical abilities to the shield.

5. Must be a wizard to take an arcane items. Anyone can take Talismans and Enchanted Items. For Magic Weapons and armor, you must be able to take the mundane equivalent to take the magic version.

All Saurus and Skink character's have mundane weapons (even priests have a hadn weapon) so all can take Magic Weapons. If they can take a shield, they can have a magic shield, if they can take armour, they can take magic armour. As mentioned, there are items that have other restrictions, like "Skink Only".

I wish you luck on your max calvary army, I've never really tried it. I would reakonmend though to consider using skinks with kroxigors for your core selection. They're fast and will be good flanking enemy units that your calvary/stegadons/carnosaur charge head on into.

meanmachine
08-02-2009, 11:56
[QUOTE=Necromancy Black;3272128]

1. no

2, 3: Ok, the thing to remember is you have to use magic weapons over mundane weapons. The second thing to remember is that magic weapon do not have any of the rules of their mundane counterparts unless stated so. The Blade of Realities does not count as a Hand Weapon. Therefor if you try and use an extra one you are in fact only using a single hand weapon and a magic weapon. The single hand weapon does nothing at all in this case.

hi mate

1) do you mean no i can use more than 1 carosaur or no i cant

2) how is The Blade of Realities not a hand weapon

3) i dont think you understood what i meant, i want to have 2 special weapons to choose from (the Blade of Realities and a mundane wepon with poison and magic attacks on it incase of ethereal) am i alllowed these 2 seperate weapons or not mate

Necromancy Black
08-02-2009, 12:07
Ok, I'll clear the first one up a bit.

The only way you can take a carnosaur is as a mount. The only ones who can take them as mounts are Lords choices. So at 2000 point you can havea single lord, meaning you can have a single carnosaur. There's no way around this. The maximun number of carnosaurs is equal to the maximun number of Lords.

2) The Blade of Realities is not a hand weapon because it doesn't say it is.

As I said, all magic weapons lose any rule their mundane equivilent have unless stated otherwise. This means you can not use Magic Weapons for an extra hand weapon bonus, nor can you use them for a hand weapon and shild bonus.

As the Blade of Realities is not stated to have teh Hand Weapon rule, it's not a Hand Weapon (but it's still a close combat weapon).

3) You item combination is fine, you have both the Blade and the Vemon, but you can't use them at the same time and you can not choose to use a mundane weapon over a magic weapon. So you have to always use the Blade of Realities.

Note that the Blade of Realities does magical attacks. It's not said anywhere in the main rules what a magical attack is but basically, any magical item or attack that happens only in the magic phase will be magical. So the Blade of Realities, and any other magical weapon the Lizardmen get, will do magical attacks.

Mr_Rose
08-02-2009, 12:08
The Blade of Realities isn't a Hand Weapon because it doesn't say it is; being a magic weapon overrides all other special abilities entirely.

Besides which, even if it were listed as a Hand Weapon, you still wouldn't be able to get the extra attack for the second hand weapon, per:

Warhammer Rulebook, p.121, Magic Weapons, 2nd para 1st sentence:

A character that has a magic close combat weapon cannot use any other close combat weapons, although it can carry a shield as normal.
(emphasis mine)

Sure you can pay the points for the additional hand weapon, but you cannot actually use it as long as you still have the Blade.

meanmachine
08-02-2009, 12:10
Ok, I'll clear the first one up a bit.

The only way you can take a carnosaur is as a mount. The only ones who can take them as mounts are Lords choices. So at 2000 point you can havea single lord, meaning you can have a single carnosaur. There's no way around this. The maximun number of carnosaurs is equal to the maximun number of Lords.

2) The Blade of Realities is not a hand weapon because it doesn't say it is.

As I said, all magic weapons lose any rule their mundane equivilent have unless stated otherwise. This means you can not use Magic Weapons for an extra hand weapon bonus, nor can you use them for a hand weapon and shild bonus.

As the Blade of Realities is not stated to have teh Hand Weapon rule, it's not a Hand Weapon (but it's still a close combat weapon).

3) You item combination is fine, you have both the Blade and the Vemon, but you can't use them at the same time and you can not choose to use a mundane weapon over a magic weapon. So you have to always use the Blade of Realities.

Note that the Blade of Realities does magical attacks. It's not said anywhere in the main rules what a magical attack is but basically, any magical item or attack that happens only in the magic phase will be magical. So the Blade of Realities, and any other magical weapon the Lizardmen get, will do magical attacks.

ok i understand

thank for clearing that up for me mate

nosferatu1001
08-02-2009, 12:16
Mr_rose - you never actually use the second CCW, so you are incorrect - if it had the "Hand Weapon" rule, you would indeed combine it with the HW you already have. Compare to Blade of H(something...) in the DE book, which is explicitly aHW and therefore gains an additional attack.

The Blade does not have this rule, therefore it cannot gain an extra attack. You also cannot get the parry bonus as you are not using a HW and Shield (for example)

Carnosaurs - Kroq-gar is a Lord, and only allows you to take COR as Core. You can therefore only ever have 1 carnosaur per 1000 points.

Necromancy Black
08-02-2009, 12:20
Carnosaurs - Kroq-gar is a Lord, and only allows you to take COR as Core. You can therefore only ever have 1 carnosaur per 1000 points.

Except for the first 1000 :p

Mr_Rose
08-02-2009, 12:41
Mr_rose - you never actually use the second CCW, so you are incorrect - if it had the "Hand Weapon" rule, you would indeed combine it with the HW you already have. Compare to Blade of H(something...) in the DE book, which is explicitly aHW and therefore gains an additional attack.
Yes, the specific exception which applies to one specific magic weapon that overrides the normal rules for both hand weapons and magic weapons is surely an acceptable jumping-off point for the characterisation of the actual rule, instead of, say, the rule as printed.:rolleyes:

If you merely need to possess a second hand weapon in order to gain the additional attack, do you still get it if you are also 'using' a shield? I mean, there's not usually any restriction that prevents you buying an additional hand weapon and a shield, though that varies by book, and if, as you state, "using" the additional hand weapon is unnecessary in order to gain the extra attack then surely there's nothing preventing you from gaining it whilst also getting the AS bonus for having a shield.:cheese:

Necromancy Black
08-02-2009, 12:48
Mr Rose is on the money. The rules for magic weapon clearly prohibit the use of any other weapon while they have the magic weapon. So the De weapon can not be combined with another hand weapon, but can be combined with a shield.

WLBjork
08-02-2009, 14:03
5. Must be a wizard to take an arcane items. Anyone can take Talismans and Enchanted Items. For Magic Weapons and armor, you must be able to take the mundane equivalent to take the magic version.

Magic Weapons aren't limited.

To be more precise with magic armour - you can only take magic armour if you have access to mundane armour, and you can only take a magic shield if you have access to a mundane shield. A magic helm is considered to be the same as normal armour.

nosferatu1001
08-02-2009, 17:12
I knew I should have added "after the first 1000".....

In addition, you can only have one piece of armour that "counts", e.g. one piece of armour, scaly skin, shield. If you have mundane Heavy Armour and an item that also counts as Heavy Armour then you would only get the 5+ AS increase once.

Oops about the Magic weapon thing - reaqding the DE item i was thinking great, extra attacks....

Necromancy Black
08-02-2009, 22:41
Magic Weapons aren't limited.


Hey crap, your right. My Bad.

Sword of Hornet armed Slann are go!

Neckutter
09-02-2009, 02:49
well its a good thing the slann is WS10, and S7, right?
honestly anyone who gives their slann a magic weapon is kinda silly(MAYBE the short bow thing... MAYBE). it shouldnt be in base to base with things, because it should be in a unit of temple guard.

that being said, lord mazdamundi is a waste of a lord choice. :)

Necromancy Black
09-02-2009, 02:54
well its a good thing the slann is WS10, and S7, right?
honestly anyone who gives their slann a magic weapon is kinda silly(MAYBE the short bow thing... MAYBE). it shouldnt be in base to base with things, because it should be in a unit of temple guard.

that being said, lord mazdamundi is a waste of a lord choice. :)

Regeneration, immune to mundane weapons, Phirahna Blade...I wanna sent him into a challange with Unit Champions :p

nosferatu1001
09-02-2009, 12:14
Fat, ghostly frog hitting people with a chainsword - hilarious!

How about just sticking him on his own - no guard, just 2+ ward against shooting and immune to mundane? He shouldnt still get in combat, edges of woods are wonderful things

Dokushin
09-02-2009, 14:16
Hang on, the Slaan has LOS as a large target, and heck, a BS of 3... that S5 3x shortbow might not be a bad investment, never thought of that...

I mean, it's just three shots that will never hit, but it's not like we have anything else to take on him...

Asmodiseus
09-02-2009, 14:43
Slaans arnt large targets anymore. Maybe you could RAW your way into letting them use skink chiefs as a LoS point for their awesome new magic shortbow:D

dsw1
09-02-2009, 15:08
I have a question that has been puzzling me for a while now;

If you make a skink Chief a BSB and give him the skavenpelt banner, then add him to a unit of Saurus, do the saurus get the frenzy? It says the banner can only be given to skinks but if the Sink BSB is holding it, then it fits that criteria and thus the unit it joins (the Saurus) get the frenzy.

The reason I ask this is because I would very much like to see frenzied Saurus with spears (33 s4 attacks would be an amazing sight to behold, and would put shame to anything that charged it).

I think this will be FAQ'ed, but as of now is it legal?


Slaans arnt large targets anymore. Maybe you could RAW your way into letting them use skink chiefs as a LoS point for their awesome new magic shortbow:D

Re-read what the book says, it states that the slann's LOS is worked out as if he was a large target.

Asmodiseus
09-02-2009, 15:31
Yeah I read that I just mis read what dokushin posted I thought he said "As a Large Target the slaan has" but I went back and reread and saw he said "The slaan has the los of a large target"

Sometimes I read faster than my brain can digest the info:P

Anyway the cheif question was debated on another thread and someone said one of the armies at one time or another had a FAQ out that said if a magic item can only be used by a certain model, than only other such models can be effected by it or something like that. I have yet to see this FAQ for myself so as of now It would effect saurus's.

Desert Rain
09-02-2009, 18:02
It says in the book that it is ''skinks only'' in the same place as on other items that are "something only". So I interpretate that as it can only be taken by a skink. In the pasage were it's effect is described it says nothing about "skinks only" so it should give the Saurus frenzy if a skink BSB with it joins the unit.

Dokushin
09-02-2009, 19:08
If a unit starts with frenzy, i.e. from a magic banner :angel: it loses it if the banner bearer is killed, right?

nosferatu1001
09-02-2009, 19:56
No - frenzy is not lost once the unit loses the banner, unless explicitly stated otherwise. Psychology, once applied, is "permanent"

Asmodiseus
09-02-2009, 20:31
Nosferatu, when you get a chance could you give me a page reference for that because I cant find it in the psch section or the magic item section

Neckutter
09-02-2009, 20:36
the skaven banner says the unit gains frenzy unit defeated in combat. usually when the character leaves the unit, the unit lose any bonus that the character gave them. for example with spells and EotG and such.

if not, i guess im bringing a skink bsb, who will be joining all of my units at least one point in the game.

i can see it now... one lowly skink running down my lines joining each of my units and waving his flag around like a maniac. frenzied spear- saurus? yes please.

Necromancy Black
09-02-2009, 23:05
God, with a majority of the Army at S4, 2 Attacks, Frenzy on most things would be awesome.

With the Skink BSB and Skaven Banner, the limitation of Skinks Only means only skinks can select the magic item. The items rules are quick clear that it will affect the entire unit he's with, and there is limitation of what units can and can not be affect.

So if he joins them, they'll get frenzy.

BUT, if you have a frenzy skink with M6 in a unit of M4 saurus, expect that skink to be forced to charge out of the unit at something between 9-12" away, leaving the Saurus block behind.

Frenzy: best used with a screen.

Neckutter
09-02-2009, 23:43
i was just joking. :) the visual of a skink bsb frenzying the whole army was funny though.

as with most other bonuses, frenzy will be lost when the banner bearer isnt a part of the unit.

nosferatu1001
10-02-2009, 05:48
Why would it be lost? Once a unit is "frenzied" nothing indicates they would lose this result just because the frenzy causer has left - they have gained the psychology rule "Frenzy" and nothing within the Frenzy rule requires the presence of something to maintain the Frenzy. In fact the banner exception is the same as that as for normal frenzy.

"the unit gains frenzy until defeated in combat" (sic) - nothing indicates the BSB is required to stay within the unit.

Asmodiseus
10-02-2009, 06:38
From a RAW perspective I guess thats correct, but from a RaI standpoint that is just ridiculous.

Necromancy Black
10-02-2009, 06:44
So your happy for the BSB to go from unit to unit giving the entire army Frenzy? And if they do lose frenzy they can just get the BSB to join them again and give tehm back frenzy.

The rules says "The unit gains frenzy...". So if you want to go with perfect RAW:

- The rules states "unit", being a singular. So we can't have the banner affecting multiple units.

- The banner is going to affect the unit it's in. There's nothing at all saying it affects units at range so it has to affect the unit that has the banner.

- The moment the BSB leaves the unit, he becomes a unit of one US1 model as per the rules. Therefor he becomes the unit affected and whatever unit was previosuly affected is no longer affected, thus they loose frenzy.

So by RAW, they'll loose Frenzy if the BSB leaves the unit.

Bac5665
10-02-2009, 13:47
So your happy for the BSB to go from unit to unit giving the entire army Frenzy? And if they do lose frenzy they can just get the BSB to join them again and give tehm back frenzy.

The rules says "The unit gains frenzy...". So if you want to go with perfect RAW:

- The rules states "unit", being a singular. So we can't have the banner affecting multiple units.

- The banner is going to affect the unit it's in. There's nothing at all saying it affects units at range so it has to affect the unit that has the banner.

- The moment the BSB leaves the unit, he becomes a unit of one US1 model as per the rules. Therefor he becomes the unit affected and whatever unit was previosuly affected is no longer affected, thus they loose frenzy.

So by RAW, they'll loose Frenzy if the BSB leaves the unit.

That is not a RAW interpretation, that is an (intentionally) extreme interpretation.

RAW does not mean "take the silliest interpretation of the rules." It means interpret the rules how they are written, using the text as the most important piece of evidence.

I your example, you say the RAW says that the "unit" is effective, and that that must mean "1 unit ever." I contend that it means only "the unit with the banner at the time." Both are perfectly valid constructions under English. In every possible way, both are RAW, its just that some words can be construed multiple ways.

Sorry, it just gripes me hard when people just use RAW to mean "look at this extreme way to look at the rules, that often is actually wrong, since its contradicted by something else in the rules!!"

GodlessM
10-02-2009, 13:54
That is not a RAW interpretation, that is an (intentionally) extreme interpretation.

RAW does not mean "take the silliest interpretation of the rules." It means interpret the rules how they are written, using the text as the most important piece of evidence.

I your example, you say the RAW says that the "unit" is effective, and that that must mean "1 unit ever." I contend that it means only "the unit with the banner at the time." Both are perfectly valid constructions under English. In every possible way, both are RAW, its just that some words can be construed multiple ways.

Sorry, it just gripes me hard when people just use RAW to mean "look at this extreme way to look at the rules, that often is actually wrong, since its contradicted by something else in the rules!!"

Regardless, Necromancy Black is correct, if the BSB with the banner left the unit they would lose the benefit. It's quite plain really.

Bac5665
10-02-2009, 14:21
That may well be, and was outside of my point.

Gork or Possibly Mork
10-02-2009, 19:11
Do you see anything in the rules preventing me from deploying a Kink unit like this

SSSSS
-K-S-K-
-K-S-K-
SSSSS
SSSSS

17 Skinks, 2 Krox with no skinks on the sides of the Krox. This would give you
+3 rank bonus even if a rank dies with only 2 Krox and will fit nicely in standard movement trays.

Necromancy Black
10-02-2009, 22:57
That's pefectly fine. The 2 kroxigors have replaced the width of 2 skinks, therefor they count as such.

Using what is said in the front of the army book, that's fine and you would get your rank bonus's.

Necromancy Black
10-02-2009, 22:59
I your example, you say the RAW says that the "unit" is effective, and that that must mean "1 unit ever." I contend that it means only "the unit with the banner at the time." Both are perfectly valid constructions under English. In every possible way, both are RAW, its just that some words can be construed multiple ways.


Ah, was trying to go for those lines as well but I pulled out "1 unit ever" instead of unit with banner. Mostly I did this as the previous posters seemed to have gone with a "fully RAW" interpretation that the unit can not loose frenzy since the item says tehy can't loose it until they loose combat, so I went with a more extreme RAW interpretation.

Bac5665
10-02-2009, 23:32
Right. I knew you were just trying to make a point. But I don't like it when people misuse the term RAW. I think its important to play by the rules and use them to play the game, and that gets harder when people make the rules out to be some monstrous document.

RAW isn't absolute; all words are subject to interpretation, and differences of interpretation are possible and expected. But when its the words that are being interpreted, both sides are RAW, even if one side is RAI too.

Anyway, I know you were just making a point, and one I agree with at that. I just wanted to clarify, as way too many people don't get the nuanced kind of point that we are talking about.

Desert Rain
11-02-2009, 11:18
Do you see anything in the rules preventing me from deploying a Kink unit like this

SSSSS
-K-S-K-
-K-S-K-
SSSSS
SSSSS

17 Skinks, 2 Krox with no skinks on the sides of the Krox. This would give you
+3 rank bonus even if a rank dies with only 2 Krox and will fit nicely in standard movement trays.
That should be perfectly fine. Rather good too as the kroxigors can help you out if you should get flank charged.

Necromancy Black
12-02-2009, 01:59
That should be perfectly fine. Rather good too as the kroxigors can help you out if you should get flank charged.

Well even if you had the following:

SSSSSS
SKKSKKS
SKKSKKS
SSSSSS
SSSSSS

the kroxigors could still attack to the flanks :p

Gork or Possibly Mork
12-02-2009, 17:20
I have a question and Im sure it's been raised before but here goes.

Defeated by Fearcausing Enemy
"Units in close combat automatically fail thier break test
if they are defeated by an enemy that they Fear and the combined
unit strength of the units on the losing side is lower than the combined
unit strength of all Fear-causing units on the winning side."

Later it states "Note that this rule applies whether the defeated units
have previously passed any Fear test or not.

I always thought you only counted fear causing models for some reason but the text says combined unit strength of Fear causing units. Not combined unit strength of fear causing models or combined unit strength of Fear causers themselves, just units.

Since Skink-Krox unit's are a Fear causing unit they would auto-break a unit that's not ITP or unbreakable if it outnumbers the enemy unit(s) and wins the combat.

Does anybody know of anything in FAQ that would state otherwise?

Necromancy Black
12-02-2009, 23:03
Previous FAQ for lizardmen clearly stated you only count the actual models that cause for for outnumbering purposes. This pretty much became the base rule.

So no, in a Krox/Skink unit only the US of the Kroxigors is counted for outnumbering the enemy by fear.

Neckutter
13-02-2009, 01:37
i really think they should have described the SKroxigor unit better. the whole unit doesnt cause fear, but a part of it does(the kroxigors) so they should have added a caveat as to how it acts when it is charged by a fear causing unit. it is very vague now and it seems like people think that the skinks become immune to fear, since their big buddies are with them.

Necromancy Black
13-02-2009, 02:49
It's because the only other rules for fear and non-fear models is in characters, which say that a fear causer in a non fear causing unit grants the unit immunity to fear as though they tehmselves generated it.
So this is extended to such units as the Kroxigors and skinks. Seems like a fair step to make too me.

Neckutter
13-02-2009, 03:33
so basically it isnt a bad idea to have skink cohorts with one krox in the unit? :P

i guess the LM FAQ will haveta update the skink unit, "replace add one kroxigor for 55 points", with "make the unit immune to fear while kroxigors are in the unit for 55 points per krox" :P

Necromancy Black
13-02-2009, 04:01
Thing to remember as well is that the same character rules say they only cause fear if the fear causer comes into base to base contact. So a rear charge in the skinks would be fear test free for the charger if there are two ranks of skinks between them and the kroxigors.

A useful bit of info for things like Skaven and fast cav.

Neckutter
13-02-2009, 04:39
wait, what now? a kroxigor is never placed in the front rank, and thus never in base to base. i think the way its worded, the kroxigor can make his attacks, and be attacked, but im not sure if he counts as being in base to base.

Necromancy Black
13-02-2009, 04:46
Nope, the wording is made to say that it counts as being in base to bast contact.

The rules says, and this is so hard to explain, the Kroxigors count as being in base to base contact with anything that is is base to base contact with a skink that the kroxigor is in direct base to base contact with.

Got it?

EDIT: and yes, this means they will be affected by things like that Nurgle Banner WoC get that affects all non-nugle units in base to base contact with the bearer.

Mr_Rose
13-02-2009, 08:40
Never mind the nugle banner, what about the bloodskull pendant? One automatic S8/KB hit on every model in BtB with the bearer. That is, three skinks and however many Krox are touching any of those...

Neckutter
13-02-2009, 08:47
what about the bloodskull pendant? One automatic S8/KB hit on every model in BtB with the bearer. That is, three skinks and however many Krox are touching any of those...

um... holy crap. talk about some combat res! too bad krox cant be KB'd :(

Necromancy Black
13-02-2009, 08:56
Yep, so it has it's drawbacks. However I'm happy with the rules as these sort of things can all be resolved easily in the current ruleset, so it's a good rule IMO.

Bac5665
13-02-2009, 14:43
Yep, so it has it's drawbacks.

You mean besides either being unnecessary or handing the enemy combat res? There is almost no benefit to using this formation.

At 1 krox, your better off without it, since the main use is in redirecting and march blocking, and the krox doubles the price without adding to those things, and makes the unit less maneuverable by not being able to turn.

2+ krox, now your paying nearly 200+ points and investing in a real unit. The unit is great on the charge, but the krox hit the same whether or not there are skinks there, and if the krox don't just steamroll the unit, the unit will murder skinks.

Either the Krox win on their own, or the skinks make things worse. And its the Bloodskull Pendant that makes the unit less attractive? :rolleyes:

genestealer_baldric
13-02-2009, 17:04
iam new to the world of warhammer so be easy on me

i was thinking if i take lord mazdamundi and temple guard, and it says under the temple guard they have to form up around a slan even if he dosn't whant them to so does that mean the temple guard have to surround lord mazdamundi. any help would be appricated.

Mr_Rose
13-02-2009, 18:27
iam new to the world of warhammer so be easy on me

i was thinking if i take lord mazdamundi and temple guard, and it says under the temple guard they have to form up around a slan even if he dosn't whant them to so does that mean the temple guard have to surround lord mazdamundi. any help would be appricated.
Short an erratum/FAQA issued by GW, yes it does.
So you either don't take Temple Guard in an army that has Mazda in it, or you play him in games big enough that you can take a second Slann to go in the temple guard and leave Lord Sportscar to roam around freely, sans fanboys.

genestealer_baldric
13-02-2009, 19:40
Mr_Rose- that has helped me come to a conclusion cos at my local Gw it has been a rather debated topic thanks :)

Mr_Rose
13-02-2009, 20:18
Actually....
I just re-checked the book and thee is a curious thing here:
It is the Temple Guard's "Sacred Duty" special rule is the one that insists that mage-priests join units of Temple guard, so if Mazdamundi is on the same table with a unit of TG and there is no other Mage-Priest, he must join that unit. This is not in doubt.

However; there is a second component to this:
Normal Mage-Priests have their own special rule called "Guardians" - it is this rule which says that they are placed in the second rank of TG units and can cast spells/be the general/be BSB from that position.
Lord Mazdamundi does not have this rule.
Therefore, it seems that whilst Mazda must join a unit of TG (and that unit will become stubborn and ItP), he is not placed in the second rank after all. This makes him about an order of magnitude more useful...and, for once, actually makes sense.

Tellingly, Lord Kroak, the Dead Frog, does use the Guardians special rule except modified to suit his status as the One True Frog.

Necromancy Black
13-02-2009, 22:46
It's because Mazdamundi is on the back of a stegadon and not using his Palanquin that he doesn't have that ruling. So yes, Mazdamundi will not go into the second rank of TG.

@Bac5665, I see the skink/krog units being useful. In fact, I see them being able to do some serious flank damage to a few armies. But I would never ever use them alone, just as I never used the last edition kroxigors alone.

Last edition kroxigors weren't that good IMO. Sure, they could get some hits on some alrge monsters and chariots, but against normal troops they sucked. WS3, very low static combat res, LD5...these guys needed support to keep them alive and actually doing something. I see the skinks as the support they need, and with other units (say my favorite core units, saurus) they will be fantastic flankers. Never send them into the front though, that's just stupid.

Neckutter
13-02-2009, 23:00
However; there is a second component to this:
Normal Mage-Priests have their own special rule called "Guardians" - it is this rule which says that they are placed in the second rank of TG units and can cast spells/be the general/be BSB from that position.
Lord Mazdamundi does not have this rule.
Therefore, it seems that whilst Mazda must join a unit of TG (and that unit will become stubborn and ItP), he is not placed in the second rank after all. This makes him about an order of magnitude more useful...and, for once, actually makes sense.

Tellingly, Lord Kroak, the Dead Frog, does use the Guardians special rule except modified to suit his status as the One True Frog.

first off, nice find. :) secondly since mazda would be in the first rank, i guess when the TG unit charges, mazda and his steg do impact hits.

Mr_Rose
14-02-2009, 10:47
first off, nice find. :) secondly since mazda would be in the first rank, i guess when the TG unit charges, mazda and his steg do impact hits.
That very situation would be why I said he becomes that much more useful... Of course, he's also a proper Large Target with US10 as well, so no "look out sir" rolls, unfortunately.

nosferatu1001
14-02-2009, 15:43
No look out sirs, but a 2+ armour and a 4+ ward will help ;)

And yes, like a Screaming bell, he does impact hits. Temple Guard AND impact hits? lovely :D