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View Full Version : If you could change a codex what would you change?



rickie8437
08-02-2009, 15:41
im putting this here but if it needs moved plz do

ok i was sat reading the large amount of dexs i have and it came to me ' i wish i had the power to change a few things'

now this is not a thread to start talking about codex that we all know need work ie dark elder, blood angels and space wolfs to name a few as we know these are broke and need massive work

im talking about that codexs that are new'ish, say 4th ed release

so heres a few things id like to change for the the codex's i use the most

Codex space marine

now this codex is great but the only thing i dont like and would love to change is

chapter master and captains, now points cost is good but what you can give them is not, id liketo see them get the full marine weopons to use as at the moment they cant have twin lighting claws and things like that or jump packs

this also leads me to command squads and honour guard as they cant have the same things as the commander ie jump packs bikes terminator armour

Codex chaos marine

ok now were to start lol

this dex is great apart from two things that id love to change one is the choas lords and demon princes as they both need more options and they need a better save other than a 3+ and a 5+ inv

demons - man they suck and i feel for any word bearers player out there

the things id like to change is this, id keep the stat line and the points but id add god marks to them to sort of make them fit with themed armys and make them a little better so for khorne give them +1 attack for say 20 points that sort of thing,

id also do this for the greater demons keep them as they are but giving them marks as well, this i think would make them better but not as hard as the demons from the demon codex

Eldar

only thing id change is to add some sort of craftworld option into the list so not all eldar armys are the same

so there is my idears now for yours

also if you want add codexs that you would like to see done and any idears that come to mind post them

and you never know GW might read this and go hay that sounds good but lol that will never happen

Vampiric16
08-02-2009, 18:12
Chaos Space marines:
Traits/ special options for legion armies e.g. god specific daemons for word bearers and god specific legions, cultists for alpha legion, sonic weaponry across the board for emp children, techmarines for iron warriors etc.
Tyranids:
Venom cannon can penetrate closed topped vehicles, biovores should get more shots, raveners should be cheaper, genestealers should be cheaper with the rending 'nerf', Hormagaunts should be WAY cheaper, gargoyles should be WAY cheaper and be plastic, need a new gun for fexes that can hurt tanks convincingly, new fast attack choice.
Thats my two cents.

Grazzy
08-02-2009, 18:23
I'm kind of happy with the codexes i play with.

I would like TH/SS termies for space marines to only have a 4+ save against combat AND shooting or a 3+ save in combat.

Lord Raneus
08-02-2009, 18:29
I'd have kept Libbies and Chaplains at 3 wounds, with the appropriate points increase, of course.

I don't know but 2 wound characters feel a bit too fragile for me.

Goq Gar
08-02-2009, 18:30
Space marines.

They have 2 wounds, a 3+ save on 2d6, have overwatch.

HsojVvad
08-02-2009, 18:54
Even though I don't have the Eldar codex, I would like the Eldar and Chaos codicies, to have more flavour. Have craftworlds back, and Chaos legions back. I liked in C:CSM 3.5 that you had god specific legions. There was so much flavour to it.

Anything that adds flavour to the game is good. Mind you I don't play much, so Don't tell me I can make this craftworld in Codex Eldar, or I can make that in C:CSM. If it dosn't say that in the codex, then it can't be done, since I am a newbie.

It's fine if you are a veteran, and know the fluff to make a certian craftworld or Chaos legion, but if you are a newbie like me, I wouldn't have a clue. I can call my Craftworld Lewthie (sorry for spelling, it's the only one I know of) and anthour person can say, that is not the way it's suppose to be. How am I suppose to know how it's suppose to be when it's not in the codex anymore?

Splog
08-02-2009, 19:21
Eldar - with varying degrees of nice to have.

Most wanted
------------

Drop the Autarch's stats to be inline with an Exarch with an extra wound, and give him more 'strategic bonuses' (not sure what, maybe bonus to steal the initiative, etc).

Change the the Fire Dragon Exarch weapon option for a flamer to something more suited to the role of the squad.

Get rid of the Shining Spear Exarch's option for a Shuriken Cannon and change it to something more suited to the theme of the squad (don't know.. storm shield equivalent? Scythes on the jetbike?)

Change the Warpspider Exarch power surprise assault to something useful.

Lose the option for the Dark Reaper Exarch to have 'standard' Eldar heavy weapons and replace with something unique.

Give us Phoenix Lords of Warp Spiders and Shining Spears.

Wanted
-------

Exarchs can have a maximum of two Exarch powers, and in addition to their current set also have their Phoenix Lord's third power as an option.

Reduce points cost of Vypers.

Probably just me
----------------

Bring back the Executioner psychic power! Maybe via a Warlock squad leader who is an Eldar trapped on the path: +1 WS, BS, Ld, and Sv. Has access to normal warlock powers plus executioner (and possibly another).

Fire Dragons; +1 sv lose Fleet of Foot

Clutching at straws
------------------

Variants/options for Wraithguard and Wraithlords.

Wraithguard - weapon swap to wraithblade; a mastercrafted diresword.

Wraithlord - a choice of a single mini-upgrade to represent an Aspect affiliation in life, e.g. mandiblasters, banshee mask, fusion guns, etc

ard boy stu
08-02-2009, 20:23
Orks: For looted wagon be able to upgrade the AV

Bunnahabhain
08-02-2009, 20:38
The lack of a sensible or complete FAQ and Errata.- Look at warseer, Dakka etc, and find real FAQs

The unwillingness to issue updates to things made meaningless by edition changes, and updates to other codexes.- Damonic instability

Refusal to unify gear- ie Assault cannons, storm shields


Codex: All of them.

hawo0313
08-02-2009, 20:55
Blood angels
-mephiston needs eternal warrior he kinda missed that so now he gets squashed by insta death as he has no invulnerable save.
-the assault troops are a bit overcosted.

other than that the are only the differences in comparison to the new space marine codex so its fine for me.

Thrax
08-02-2009, 21:07
I don't like the trend towards special characters, especially when they are nearly as cheap as generic commanders with loads more ability. The new space marine codex is especially disheartening with an army's ability based upon the abilities of individuals, not tendencies of that force. Now you have people trying to discover which unholy combo will generate the best trick to surprise the enemy, all fluff thrown aside. The trait system should have been improved, not discarded.

Forcing all squad leaders to automatically be upgraded while taking away so many options seems a step in the wrong direction as well.

MrGiggles
08-02-2009, 22:27
Well, I can think of a couple of things with the Ork book.

I'd like to see Looted Wagons changed. Basically loot whatever, take a point of AV off of each facing, give it Don't Press Dat!, BS2 and 'Uh-Oh" (for when you roll a 1 during shooting) and some upgrades that can basically add a point of AV back to a facing or something to that effect.

The SAG and Bomb Squigs were nice and I'd like to see more of that sort of thing come back. Lifta-Droppas, Hop-Splat Guns, that sort of thing.

I'd like to be able to put a Flash Git or a Nob with a Big Shoota with a mob of Shoota Boyz just because it makes sense.

All that being said, I really don't have much right to complain about the Ork book. After all, the Ork players got a new book last year. There are quite a few other armies who need an update more than our friendly Greenskins.

maelstrom66669
08-02-2009, 22:31
Chaos: I would definately add special abilities/handicaps to god specific armies. other than that it all seems fine to me.

MacVurrich
08-02-2009, 22:38
Orks
fluff wise if nothing else - Nobz and Warbosses to be abel to take Big Shooters

Big Ork - allowing a smaller ork to have a bigger gun than him/IT, IDTS

cool0001
08-02-2009, 22:59
C:SM - Make Sternguard more accurate (raise BS to 5)
Make the Land Speeder Storm Cheaper
Include the Vinicators siege shield cost in the base cost
Let LR Redemers take pintleand hull mounted flamers/ heavy flamers
Get rid of the ten men then you can buy special/heavy weapons
Let Devestators take special weapons

C:CSM - Get Cultists
Let Defilers take marks
Let Chaos Marines (the normal ones) take plasma cannons
Give Asp. Champs an option for an expensive or weak god related item e.g if the squad takes the MoN the the asp. champ can get a poisoned weapon and make the weapons cheaper for the god themed units (1K sons ect)

Orkeosaurus
08-02-2009, 23:19
Chaos would have to be my pick.

Fix the berzerker/'chaos marine with mark of Khorne' nonsense and make them the same thing. Make cultists and better daemons available. Boost all the psychic powers besides Lash, nerf Lash, bring back veteran skills and more potions for daemon princes, boost spawn, dreads, and posessed, update the LatD rules.

Grimbad
08-02-2009, 23:20
Give ork weapons a tyranid-style strength system, so that a warboss's shoota is stronger than a boy's, for example.

Or, give orks a medium tank (f13 s12 r10) that isn't a transport.

And give flash gitz and meganobz options for bosspoles and waaagh! banners.

marv335
08-02-2009, 23:55
Codex space marine

Chapter Master and Captains. Now points cost is good, but what you can give them is not. I'd like to see them get the full marine weapons to use, as at the moment they can't have twin lighting claws and things like that, or jump packs


Yes they can.
A Chapter Master and a Captain may have both a pair of Lightning claws and a Jump Pack using the current codex


Eldar

Only thing I'd change is to add some sort of craftworld option into the list so that not all eldar armies are the same.


Using the current Codex Eldar it is entirely possible to create every single craftworld without resorting to special rules.

Snotteef
09-02-2009, 00:04
I have the same issue as Thrax. I've been playing since Rogue Trader and I've always hated special characters, but at least in the past they were opponent's permission.

I'd change every codex so that special characters were both more balanced (Eldrad is cheaper than a standard Farseer with the same gear and better in every way!) and opponent's permission.

Noserenda
09-02-2009, 00:37
Codex Space Marines: 1. Rip out the fluff section and whip those responsible 2. Give Apothecaries back their weapons!

Codex Chaos Marines: 1.Restrict lash a bit 2.Bring back cult Terminators 3. Give Daemons an Icon Option

Codex Blood Angels (Which is far from broken btw...): 1.Make the Special Characters not just better than the normal ones.

Chem-Dog
09-02-2009, 02:22
Chaos Daemons
A few more Daemon types, NEW ones, as it stands we only really got the Herald (which as a "Hero" version of the Lesser Daemon type is hardly an original concept) and the Soul Grinder (which, despite being a nice model and a positively awesome unit on the table is a poor concept and screams "Last Minute").

Just a single extra Daemon per god that fits in the HS section and an unaligned Daemon for each section of the codex would have been nice, but perhaps I expect too much. :)

Codex Chaos Space Marines
Just a bit more room for Cult CSM players to move (Noise Marine Havocs, for example :D)

rickie8437
09-02-2009, 08:09
when i said BA are broken i didnt mean in the sence as unplayable i mean that all they did was take the DA codex and add a few things and change a few unit names

im a massive fan of BA going as far as restarting them id just like them to get abit more Blood angel look about them and not juts be a DA off shoot

if i could change that list id bring back 10 man terminater squads also othe black rage or Furious charge for every unit across the dex

jeffersonian000
09-02-2009, 08:49
All I would change is the format. I hate having to thumb through a codex looking for rules for a unit in 3 to 4 different locations. I just what each unit to have everything you need to play that specific unit in one place, and either an index or a logical order for each unit to be presented. That's it. If they decide to put a summary at the end, cool, but not necessary.

I liked 3rd edition's formating. I'm okay with the current formate of puting everything a unit can have in one entry; however, having to look in the front for speciel rules, then in the back for pricing, then in the middle for generic rules ... frankly, it sucks.

SJ

Gorbad Ironclaw
09-02-2009, 09:02
I'd change every codex so that special characters were both more balanced (Eldrad is cheaper than a standard Farseer with the same gear and better in every way!) and opponent's permission.

So you don't want people to be able to play Ravenwing and Deathwing armies?

Yes, there is a couple of ott special characters but most are fairly harmless I feel or not even all that special to begin with! In many of the recent cases it's seems more to be a way of limiting the mix and matching you can do with special rules (like with the marines). These days I just don't care anymore.


As for things I'd change, most of it is in the Eldar Codex. Don't play them anymore as I haven't liked the book since 2nd ed, but there is a few changes I'd really like to see.

The Shuriken Catapult. Who thought it was a good idear with a 12" range? Bump it back up to 24", possibly as an assault 1 weapon.

There, that's really the biggest change I'd make. Although it's tempting to give Warp Spiders back there flamer template, maybe make it a poison 4+ or something too.

For something wild I'd be tempted to completely abbandon the standard force chart and just have a core slection that would mostly feature aspects, and then have options for buying support for them, but that is likely too much trouble for too little gain.

The_Outsider
09-02-2009, 12:31
C: DE

A new one.

alphastealer
09-02-2009, 13:58
After looking at how cheap certain daemons and basic ork boyz are, I would want to see similar point discounts happening in the tyranid codex, as well as a few other niggling things:

1) Venom cannon changed to AP- (so it destroys vehicles on a 6)
2) All synapse creatures are BS4 with no further upgrade possible
3) Biovores fire 3 mines each per turn and can take different mines
4) All tyranids +1 attack as a starting point.
5) -2pts on haumagaunts, -10 points on raveners, -2 pts on gargolyes, -30pts on lictors...or they need a serious overhaul in abilities.
6) Warriors have 4+ save as a base with the option to upgrade to 3+
7) All tyranids with 4+ save or worse get automatic fleet, but lose it if they are upgraded to 3+ or better.
8) A new elite carnifex with WS5, BS0, S8, T5, W3, A5, I4, Ld10, Sv 4+ for 120pts
with monsterous, 2x scything talons fleet and tusked.
9) Genestealer to become genofixed with WS6, BS0, S5, T4, W1, A3, I6, Ld10, Sv4+ with feeder tendrils and flesh hooks and scout for 24pts.
10) Warp field changed to 2+/5+ invulnerable.
11) Synapse creatures act as teleport homers for deep striking units.
12) Regenerate changed to the old one eye system: regain 1 lost wound automatically per turn and if killed then on a 4+ he gets up with one wound the next turn.
13) Regenerate made available to both carnifexes and hive tyrants.
14) Lash whips changed to being culmative.
15) Remove all 0-1 unit selection restrictions.
16) New biomorph : acid spray - S as creature AP4, flame template.
17) Raveners gain infiltrate.
18) Hive Tyrant warp field benefit is extended to tyrant guard on a psychic test.
19) Remove living ammunition from Zoanthropes and lictors and biovores and allow rippers to count as scoring troops who can hold objectives.
20) Please bring this out before the end of 2010.

Meriwether
09-02-2009, 14:58
Is it up to me to mention the oft-maligned Chaos Spawn?

Upgrade those poor little guys to a 4+ save, and/or FNP, and suddenly they become sort of almost kinda worth some of their points.

Meri

Inach
09-02-2009, 15:00
All of the things, I would like to mention about chaos marines, are said before.

I, personally, would like to see Seekers and Daemonettes improved. They are killed to fast and with rending in 5th edition they just dont do the job (unless against horde armies it could go well).


My biggest disapointment is the necron codex! The fluff is awesome (thats why it's my biggest army) but they are very boring (only 1 character can be upgraded / very few types of units) and people dont like playing against them (it's frustrating when you shoot 19 warriors to death and 87.5% stand up to fight again / or the (triple) lith doesn't even get a scratch).

They suffered the most from 5th edition (imo) and still loads of people are confused about some rules (WBB / monolith possibilities).


Concluding, choas daemons and marines could use an upgrade some time or just a FAQ (YES make the lash just like pavane) but Necron needs an overhaul! I would say... asap!

Brother Loki
09-02-2009, 15:25
Marines:
Less reliance on named characters to produce different army builds - instead have a list of different chapter tactics with built in drawbacks. One of them would be to allow tactical squads to exchange their bolter for a CCW.

Chaos Marines:
Allow summoned greater and lesser daemons to be marked, and add in a generic 'cultist' unit as a non-compulsory troops choice. Find some way to work in cult terminators, if it could be done without adding a whole bunch of new unit entries. Possibly a list of 'legion tactics' to make different armies play like the different legions.

Tau:
Shift gun-drones to non-compulsory/non-scoring troops to make room for tetras. Consider a non-jet infantry version of stealth suits as a troop choice (perhaps unlocked by Shadowsun?)

Tyranids:
Make it possible to have a decent 'nid army with no guns. Allow gargoyles to have scything talons instead of a gun (it was possible to do this with ther customisation rules in the previous codex).

loveless
09-02-2009, 17:56
Codex: Space Marines
-new fluff section, the rest is fine

Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- Cult Terminators, cultists, cheaper Blastmaster, the option to make the Lord/Sorcerer a member of a marked legion (i.e. Inferno Bolts for TS, FNP for DG, FC for WE, Noise Weapons for EC)

Codex: Eldar
- Maybe a character for each of the major craftworlds to bring their set-up a bit more inline with the current Codex: Space Marines (Eldrad for Ulthwe, Yriel is Alaitoc (or wherever he's from), etc.)

Codex: WarSeer
- the realization that the entire game is opponent's permission only, so that there's no need to put it in writing when special characters are as much of a ruleset as they are the character in question

Gorbad Ironclaw
09-02-2009, 17:59
Ah yeah, I forgot something else I'd love to see.

For Tyranids, everything, at least up to Warrior sized creatures should have Without Numbers!

Might be a little difficult working out how it would work practically with scoring units and the like, but it would fit really well.

EldarBishop
09-02-2009, 18:32
Using the current Codex Eldar it is entirely possible to create every single craftworld without resorting to special rules.

Yes, and usually better (for me anyways) since they spread the aspects out a little more. I did have to go buy two more units of Dire Avengers though... but at least they are amazingly better then before...

Codex: Chaos... bring back options for Cult/Legion lists

Codex: Space Marines... take away the "traits added via Special characters" crap. Just put the trait system in... or take it out... wtf?

Codex: Eldar... I'd like to see options for aspects as troops. Even if it's as limited as taking a Ph.Lord in order to do so... then I can have troops that aren't Dire Avengers. It'd also be nice to have a flamer option on some form of infantry other then Storm Guardians and FD Exarch.

Codex: Oh please, oh please can we have a new one (=][=, DE, SW, etc...)

Cythus
09-02-2009, 19:53
Codex Necrons:

Make gauss weapons rending (i.e repalce gauss rule with rending rule)
Give wraiths rending
Give flayed ones rending
Make pariahs I4 A2 6+invunerable save and feel no pain
Make heavy immortals, same as immortals but slow and purposeful with heavy gauss cannons
give c'tan and lords immune to instant death
give c'tan 3+ invunerable
Make two-tiered lords + more equipment options (some with similar benefits to daemonic gifts)

I know these will be meaning a points increase but some of our units really need these upgrades

Codex CSM:

10,000 years of experience and still only as good as a SMurf?

Bs 5 Ld 10 Stubborn, Combat tactics and one free veteran skill

Codex SM:

we have elite assult squads = vanguard

we have elite tac squads = sternguard

for consistancy need elite dev squads = rear guard

and why no basic veterans with cc weapons and no jet packs.

Solution:

One entry: Veterans

Ws Bs S T W I A Ld Sv
Veteran: 4 4 4 4 1 4 1 10 3+
V.sergent: 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 3+


Unit: 1 veteran sargent and 4-9 veterans

Weaponary: bolter or boltpistol and chainsword

Focus: The squad must choose wether to focus on ranged or close combat

Close combat:
+1 to weapon skill for the whole unit

Options:
The veteran sargent may take a relic blade for ... pts
For ....pts permodel the units may take jetpacks for ... pts per
model if the squad has jet packs then it gets heroic intervention
up to four veterans may take:
power weaons for ... pts per model
flamers for ....
meltas for ....
grenade options etc

ranged:
+1 to ballistic skill for the whole squad
The veteran sargent may take a relic bolter for ... pts
Range 30" S 6 Ap 3 Rapid Fire master crafted
all the squad may take custom bolters for... pts per model (sternguard
bolters with special ammo)
up to for veterans may take:
heavy weapons for .... pts
grenade options etc



this gives really customisable veterans which can fit any role and can really fit the fluff

they are elite and expensive

loveless
09-02-2009, 20:14
and why no basic veterans with cc weapons and no jet packs.


You know that Vanguard Veterans don't come with jump packs standard, right?

carldooley
09-02-2009, 20:32
tau empire
1. shadowsun's Advanced Target Lock available in the battlesuit armory (2 plasma rifles anyone?)


2. stim injector working more like the DE combat drugs

3. a Dawn Blade EQ for battlesuits.

holmcross
09-02-2009, 20:43
Woo hoo! wishlist city~!

Codex: Tyranids. Broods under synapse are no longer fearless and use the leadership of the synapse creature for all morale checks. Penalties still apply. Tyrant Guard would gain Fearless.

This simple change would open up so many possibilities for nids.

Codex: Necrons. Warriors are relentless and stubborn. Why not Slow and Purposeful? Well, we suck in objective-based games enough already. Gauss weaponry only suffers -1 on the damage chart on a glancing hit.

Eryx_UK
09-02-2009, 20:48
What I would like to see done...

Space Marines:
* Tactical marines have the option for close combat weapons at 1pt per modal.

Chaos Space Marines:
* Thousand Sons... increase their points or drop their Inv save to 5+, and (if they are going to have AP3 bolters as a troop choice) drop the strength of their guns by 1 or 2. TS... broken as they currently stand.

Chaos Daemons:
* Bloodletters need to cost more if they are going to have effective power weapons on a troop choice.

Necrons:
* Remove WBB in favour of FNP (I hope this is in the new codex).
* Tone the Monolith and the Nightbringer down a bit.

trigger
09-02-2009, 21:17
Codex space marine

now this codex is great but the only thing i dont like and would love to change is

chapter master and captains, now points cost is good but what you can give them is not, id liketo see them get the full marine weopons to use as at the moment they cant have twin lighting claws and things like that or jump packs

this also leads me to command squads and honour guard as they cant have the same things as the commander ie jump packs bikes terminator armour

Eldar

only thing id change is to add some sort of craftworld option into the list so not all eldar armys are the same

so there is my idears now for yours

also if you want add codexs that you would like to see done and any idears that come to mind post them

and you never know GW might read this and go hay that sounds good but lol that will never happen

Umm sorry to down you but , go and re read your codex's please.

SM Chapter Master and captains both can have Twin lightning claws and jump packs , ' replace bolt pistol and/or chain sword
with'
Admitedly chaplins cant , but i do see why.
Command squads can have bikes.

And the eldar list is diverse as it has ever been , which craft world would you like to do that is not available???

Sideros Peltarion
09-02-2009, 22:03
Chaos Space Marines:
* Thousand Sons... increase their points or drop their Inv save to 5+, and (if they are going to have AP3 bolters as a troop choice) drop the strength of their guns by 1 or 2. TS... broken as they currently stand.

Or alternatively just put them back to 2 wounds no invulnerable save which is more in line with the fluff and goes back to how they have always been (as long as I have been in the game anyway)

Eryx_UK
09-02-2009, 22:13
Or alternatively just put them back to 2 wounds no invulnerable save which is more in line with the fluff and goes back to how they have always been (as long as I have been in the game anyway)

That would work as well.

O&G'sRule
09-02-2009, 22:46
The trygon and hierodules should be in the tyranid book as heavy options. The Hierophant Bio titan is too hard for 40k (normal) so that shouldn't

Vedar
10-02-2009, 00:53
CSM

Bring legion options back. (not overpowered ones)
Give the chaos spawn a 3 or 4+ armor save or make its cost half.
Give us mutated hull back. (up to 13 if need be).
Change Dread rules back to it shoots friendly units only if it can't shoot at the enemy.
Change the Dread crazed options as now everything has run you get almost no benifit from crazed blood lust.
Give the greater daemon and lesser daemons some options.
Give all the characters INV4+ or imune from instant death.
Give the Landraider more options.
Give Daemon prince grenades of some sort for a point increase.
I could go on but I'll stop there.

MadDoc
10-02-2009, 01:33
Codex space marine

now this codex is great but the only thing i dont like and would love to change is

chapter master and captains, now points cost is good but what you can give them is not, id liketo see them get the full marine weopons to use as at the moment they cant have twin lighting claws and things like that or jump packs

What Codex are you reading? :wtf: Chapter Masters and Captains can both have a pair of lightning claws and be equipped with jump packs.


this also leads me to command squads and honour guard as they cant have the same things as the commander ie jump packs bikes terminator armour

Seriously man what Codex are you reading?

Jump pack Command Squads ala Blood Angel honour guards? Because its not like Matt Ward stole Blood Angels Vets already with the Vanguard or anything... :rolleyes:

As for bikes, Command squads can be mounted on bikes. Read the unit entry.

Terminator Command Squads? NO! Absolutely NO Terminator Command Squads outside of Dark Angels and their successors. Seriously, Matt Ward already ripped off enough of the Dark Angels uniqueness (Strength 6 power weapons you say, oh Sword of Secrets? No. What do you mean UMs and their chums get bulk copies to hand out to Vets, etc? :mad: Bikes as Troops too?) and gave it to 'Mary Sue' Calgar and his boys.


Codex chaos marine

ok now were to start lol

This isn't an easy fix. What really needs to happen is for a Second proper Legions of Chaos Codex to be done, complete with Legion, and God, specific rules and Daemons.


Eldar

only thing id change is to add some sort of craftworld option into the list so not all eldar armys are the same

You can already do Craftworld tailored lists without the need for superfluous additional Craftworld lists. I like the new Eldar codex...


so there is my idears now for yours

And last and more importantly GW should ensure that common wargear is in fact actually common across lists, i.e. actually has the same rules.

GW's apparent insistance to the contrary is patently silly, which they only compound by not being consistant with their rulings... bad show GW, bad show.

Corrode
10-02-2009, 01:40
Bikes as Troops too?

I think you're possibly overreacting on this point at least. White Scars have as much if not more claim to the title of 'biker army' as the DA do, and the option in the SM Codex represents that. Whether it 'takes away from the uniqueness' of the non-Codex chapters or not, limiting the perfectly legitimate options of one codex so that another group of the SAME FACTION can feel like special snowflakes isn't particularly good practice.

MadDoc
10-02-2009, 01:53
I think you're possibly overreacting on this point at least. White Scars have as much if not more claim to the title of 'biker army' as the DA do, and the option in the SM Codex represents that. Whether it 'takes away from the uniqueness' of the non-Codex chapters or not, limiting the perfectly legitimate options of one codex so that another group of the SAME FACTION can feel like special snowflakes isn't particularly good practice.

Ravenwing were THE biker army well before the Index Astartes that stole their thunder and tried giving it to the White Scars, the White Scars M.O. was rapid strike/attack, not best bikers in the Imperium (in fact its was explicitly stated that RW were the best, "they lived in the saddle" only dismounting when absolutely necessary). The bikes as Troops was pinched once before, and it would seem Matt Ward has simply stuck with that...

I even avoided mentioning several of the glaring inconsistancies created between lists due to Ward's Codex... Azreal, Chapter Master of a fleet based Chapter can't call in an Orbital Bombardment? Ok... :rolleyes: and lets not get started on the Stats inconsistancies... How is it that Dark Angel Chaplain have better stats? Whats with Dark Angels Masters (a Chapter well versed in Martial combat) have lower WS than Codex Captains? And thats without even mentioning Blood Angels... a BA Captain has a lower WS than an UM Captain? :wtf: Really? :rolleyes:

Bad show...

Silentexile
10-02-2009, 02:20
Codex: Eldar
-Lower Bright Lance cost
-Make Swooping Hawks useful
-Make Warp Spiders follow the fluff more (flesh-rending nets anyone?) Maybe Str 5 Ap6 Rending?
-Make Pheonix Lords worth taking...(I mean come on, they're millenia old warriors with the experience of probably hundreds if not more Exarchs, you'd think they wouldn't die so easily...)
-Come up with some way for a Farseer (or a variant of some sort) to cast three powers a turn, as that's pretty much the only reason people who aren't Ulthwe take Eldrad...having all the powers is nice, but most people just need that duplicate power, which you can't do with a normal farseer.
-Make spiritseer Warlocks do something other than just make full size Wraithguard as troops...
-Make Guardians useable outside of just sitting on an objective again and get rid of the mandatory purchase of a platform for defender guardians
-Make Shining Spears worth their points, increase allowed squad size, or make them cheaper
-Cheaper Vyper base cost
-Change Support Weapon Batteries to something besides Artillery, or allow them to move and shoot
-Make the Falcon able to be a main battle tank like it was. Paying mandatory points for weapons you can't even use makes the Falcon generally not worth the points anymore

Snotteef
10-02-2009, 02:42
So you don't want people to be able to play Ravenwing and Deathwing armies?

Of course not, but those options were available BEFORE the days of special characters being a standard HQ choice and they could be again. Just change it so that you can play Deathwing if your Captain (or Chapter Master) wears terminator armor or Ravenwing if he is mounted on a bike.

The fact that you now have to take special characters to play specialist armies drives me crazy. Not only are special characters not permission only, but they are REQUIRED for many armies.... ugghhhh! Add in that many special characters are (in my opinion) unbalanced and you have a recipe for hatred.

Inquisitor Engel
10-02-2009, 03:00
Codex: Eldar
-Lower Bright Lance cost

Not too much. IMHO it should be AP1 so it's worth taking against vehicles that aren't Land Raiders and Monoliths.


-Make Warp Spiders follow the fluff more (flesh-rending nets anyone?) Maybe Str 5 Ap6 Rending?

24" S4 AP 5 Assault 2 Rending, Pinning. Can only glance vehicles. Every roll of 5+ gets another wound at S3, AP -.


-Make Pheonix Lords worth taking...(I mean come on, they're millenia old warriors with the experience of probably hundreds if not more Exarchs, you'd think they wouldn't die so easily...)



I'd always been of the opinion that taking a Phoenix Lord should count as 2 HQ slots but allow you to take that Aspect as Troops instead of their current choice.

Hell's Angel
10-02-2009, 03:05
What I would like to see done...

Chaos Space Marines:
* Thousand Sons... increase their points or drop their Inv save to 5+, and (if they are going to have AP3 bolters as a troop choice) drop the strength of their guns by 1 or 2. TS... broken as they currently stand.



Or alternatively just put them back to 2 wounds no invulnerable save which is more in line with the fluff and goes back to how they have always been (as long as I have been in the game anyway)




That would work as well.


Bahahahaha! *phew* Bahahahaha *snort* "oh man, oh man!" *sniff* "Yes! give me 2 wounds again! Please! Because having a 18 wound firebase is soooo much easier to chew through than 9... I would love to see people target my TROOPS with lascannons and meltaguns to insta kill them! :eek: Oh while we are at it lets nerf the sternguard cause ap3 bolters are wrong...

Back on topic.
CSM
Lets undo the possessed labodemy and give them back their bolt pistols/special weapons. Points could stay the same with options for a hidden fist. I mean really are daemons that stupid?

CthulhuDalek
10-02-2009, 03:59
After looking at how cheap certain daemons and basic ork boyz are, I would want to see similar point discounts happening in the tyranid codex, as well as a few other niggling things:

1) Venom cannon changed to AP- (so it destroys vehicles on a 6)
2) All synapse creatures are BS4 with no further upgrade possible
3) Biovores fire 3 mines each per turn and can take different mines
4) All tyranids +1 attack as a starting point.
5) -2pts on haumagaunts, -10 points on raveners, -2 pts on gargolyes, -30pts on lictors...or they need a serious overhaul in abilities.
6) Warriors have 4+ save as a base with the option to upgrade to 3+
7) All tyranids with 4+ save or worse get automatic fleet, but lose it if they are upgraded to 3+ or better.
8) A new elite carnifex with WS5, BS0, S8, T5, W3, A5, I4, Ld10, Sv 4+ for 120pts
with monsterous, 2x scything talons fleet and tusked.
9) Genestealer to become genofixed with WS6, BS0, S5, T4, W1, A3, I6, Ld10, Sv4+ with feeder tendrils and flesh hooks and scout for 24pts.
10) Warp field changed to 2+/5+ invulnerable.
11) Synapse creatures act as teleport homers for deep striking units.
12) Regenerate changed to the old one eye system: regain 1 lost wound automatically per turn and if killed then on a 4+ he gets up with one wound the next turn.
13) Regenerate made available to both carnifexes and hive tyrants.
14) Lash whips changed to being culmative.
15) Remove all 0-1 unit selection restrictions.
16) New biomorph : acid spray - S as creature AP4, flame template.
17) Raveners gain infiltrate.
18) Hive Tyrant warp field benefit is extended to tyrant guard on a psychic test.
19) Remove living ammunition from Zoanthropes and lictors and biovores and allow rippers to count as scoring troops who can hold objectives.
20) Please bring this out before the end of 2010.

Hey, check out my Tyranids Codex here-- http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180352

I've addressed some of the issues you've written here, actually. It's not entirely how you'd have it, but I just got the idea of giving biovores multiple spores... take a looksee-- I'd like to get another nid player's feedback.

Deus
10-02-2009, 04:52
Scouts back to BS 4.

Damn BS 3 annoys me.

Sekhmet
10-02-2009, 06:36
I would do this to Necrons: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179277

ruttman15
10-02-2009, 06:43
I would change... uhhh... oh yeah, i would let sternguard use special ammo in storm bolters because then they would be that much more broken :D

Sideros Peltarion
10-02-2009, 08:40
Bahahahaha! *phew* Bahahahaha *snort* "oh man, oh man!" *sniff* "Yes! give me 2 wounds again! Please! Because having a 18 wound firebase is soooo much easier to chew through than 9... I would love to see people target my TROOPS with lascannons and meltaguns to insta kill them! :eek: Oh while we are at it lets nerf the sternguard cause ap3 bolters are wrong...

So you are saying you would rather have your Thousand Sons easily wiped out by bolters and the like while the enemy lascannons fire at your vehicles rather than youThousand Sons being very resilient to bolter fire (as they should be being just suits of armour) forcing them to fire lascannons at them instead of your tanks, or shooting at your tanks with them instead and meaning they keep their 2 wounds? Sounds like a much better idea to me, as it did to the games designers back when they knew what they were doing

Remoah
10-02-2009, 08:51
With guard coming out:

Cheaper Guard Heavy Bolters...
Better shotguns
Frags on RoughRiders
Drop doctrines, pay per platoon doctrines.
Stormtrooper Command Squads (pay 11pt per guardsman staff).
Stormies get Assault-2 Hellguns, or fleet and 2 attacks in CC (point increase too).
Chimera gets Side Armour 11, front 12, rear 10.

Poseidal
10-02-2009, 11:43
Eldar: (there will probably be some more points recosting than below)
Shuriken Catapult -> 24" range, maybe AP4 (it should never have had it's range cut)
Shuriken Cannon -> S down to 5, one more shot, AP4
Starcannon -> S7 AP2 Blast (like the heavy plasma but without gets hot)
D-Cannon -> Wounds as currently, AP1, all cause instant death USR, roll of 6 to wound removes the model from play (no saves, or any junk allowed). Vehicles automatically penetrated.
Brightlance -> AP1
Swooping Hawks -> Lasblasters Assault 3; can perform grenade runs over units (not skyleap) by moving up to 24" (but always over 12") and may not shoot if grenades are used.
Dragons -> 3+ save
Dire Avengers -> Gains grenades, CCW and Pistol a la CSM; possible points cost increase thanks to new Shuriken Catapult and gear
Exarchs -> Group exarch powers removed from Exarch and placed into squads as upgrades; Exarch gains new powers depending on aspect to compensate; Exarch price increased; New statline: WS6 BS6 S3 T3 W2 I6 A2 Ld9 a la Ork Nob

Eryx_UK
10-02-2009, 12:25
Bahahahaha! *phew* Bahahahaha *snort* "oh man, oh man!" *sniff* "Yes! give me 2 wounds again! Please! Because having a 18 wound firebase is soooo much easier to chew through than 9... I would love to see people target my TROOPS with lascannons and meltaguns to insta kill them! :eek: Oh while we are at it lets nerf the sternguard cause ap3 bolters are wrong...


I'd rather they be tough to kill than next to impossible.

Sternguard arn't a basic troop choice, and ours have the get hot special rule. TS still have it better!

Fixer
10-02-2009, 13:21
I'd rather they be tough to kill than next to impossible.

Sternguard arn't a basic troop choice, and ours have the get hot special rule. TS still have it better!

Also SAP and greater range.

Back on the topic of rules changes though:

My changes for chaos
Lash of submission changed:
Shooting attack. Affected infantry unit cannot move next turn. Can still fire, if drawn into close combat they will react as normal but fight at WS1.

Chaos Lords/Demon Princes
Daemon weapons act as now, but you still attack when you roll a 1. Buying a mark for a lord/demon prince prevents you from buying the opposing god's mark for other units.

Icons and marks:
Units can buy marks at a per model basis as an upgrade.
Icons can be purchased which make the unit fearless.
Demons can be summoned via Icons but the unit size is limited by the number of current models in the unit it is summoned to (2 demons for one model in the unit). In other words, if you have a unit of 3 bikers you can only summon 6 demons. Any additional demons in the squad are lost when summoned.

This is to prevent the old demon bomb tactic of charging up to the enemy and summoning an entire force which cannot be stopped.

Spawn
changed to Ld10 Stubborn. Made cheaper.

Lesser demons
Old flavours of foot demons made available again.
Keep the calvary and other demonic stuff in the demon dex.

Greater demons
All the old flavours again.

Vehicles
Add a new ancient variety of Land Raider assault vehicle. I'm thinking reaper autocannons here.
Some more chaosy vehicle upgrades like the old parasitic infection and marked upgrades like sonic weapons or swarm of flies.
Keep mutated hull out. You don't need that.

Possessed
Change the scout rule so that it applies to the unit before the army is set up.

Characters
Add some more special characters in the vein of the new marine Dex. Iron Warriors lord with servo arm. Night Lords sneaky person. Word bearers orator and demon summoner guy.

Tonberry
10-02-2009, 13:23
Oooh, wishlist thread!

- BS 5 Sternguard
- Chaos LRs with a corrupted machine spirit rule
- Other codices to use a similar system to the SM *take character x to gain army bonus y*, not sure why everyone hates this so much, just pretend they're not Ultramarines and it's fine.

carldooley
10-02-2009, 14:13
Codex: Eldar
-Make Swooping Hawks useful

-Make Pheonix Lords worth taking...(I mean come on, they're millenia old warriors with the experience of probably hundreds if not more Exarchs, you'd think they wouldn't die so easily...)

-Make spiritseer Warlocks do something other than just make full size Wraithguard as troops...

-Make Shining Spears worth their points, increase allowed squad size, or make them cheaper


1 I'll agree that swooping hawks aren't all that good without upgrades, but that is why you take an exarch with skyleap and hawk's talon. if there are swarms of troops, just dropping grenade packs every turn will get their points back, and if they are fielding tanks, drop the hawks behind RA10 tanks to get 3 Str5 shots at rear armor to easily get their points back, on top of which, they have haywires don't they(IMHO the best grenade in the game)?

2. with 1 in mind, look up baharroth.

3. spiritseers are great, especially if you are fielding wraithlords too.

4. Shining spears are great for counterassault, especially with hit&run - I try to field a unit of them in every game.

if anyone ever complains about falcon's getting nerfed, just tell them to put an EML on it.

Hell's Angel
10-02-2009, 17:18
So you are saying you would rather have your Thousand Sons easily wiped out by bolters and the like while the enemy lascannons fire at your vehicles rather than youThousand Sons being very resilient to bolter fire (as they should be being just suits of armour) forcing them to fire lascannons at them instead of your tanks, or shooting at your tanks with them instead and meaning they keep their 2 wounds? Sounds like a much better idea to me, as it did to the games designers back when they knew what they were doing

Not at all I was totally serious, I would LOVE to have 2 wounds again. My bad 3+ save rolling was the reason I had 2 squads of TS and 3 of Flamers in 4th edition. They do in fact die alot easier now than they used to...


I'd rather they be tough to kill than next to impossible.

Sternguard arn't a basic troop choice, and ours have the get hot special rule. TS still have it better!

Should I bemoan that bikes are a fast attack option for me and not a troop choice? You can easily fix the ap3 threat by using transports. I cant have any troops turbo boost to objectives the last turn and claim them... Dont even get me started on attack bikes. There are cool things in the Loyalist codex too.

I'm not going to lie though, I almost see my opponents cry when they place down a unit of assault marines w/jump packs. Even with feel no pain added to the squad. They are nothing but gravy to my boys.

Eryx_UK
10-02-2009, 17:32
Should I bemoan that bikes are a fast attack option for me and not a troop choice? You can easily fix the ap3 threat by using transports. I cant have any troops turbo boost to objectives the last turn and claim them... Dont even get me started on attack bikes. There are cool things in the Loyalist codex too.

Having bikes as troop options isn't a broken option.

HsojVvad
10-02-2009, 18:00
And the eldar list is diverse as it has ever been , which craft world would you like to do that is not available???

Actually arn't all craftworld not avaliable? Is there fluff in the codex so that a newbie who dosn't know anything about craftworld or Eldars can make specific craftworld fluff lists?

Lord Damocles
10-02-2009, 18:14
Actually arn't all craftworld not avaliable? Is there fluff in the codex so that a newbie who dosn't know anything about craftworld or Eldars can make specific craftworld fluff lists?
Yes

This announcement brought to you by the Association of Non-Bitching Eldar Players.

Mozzamanx
10-02-2009, 18:16
Yes

This announcement brought to you by the Association of Non-Bitching Eldar Players.

Is 4 members really enough for an Association? :p

Lord Damocles
10-02-2009, 18:18
Is 4 members really enough for an Association? :p
What, we got another member?
:p

Hell's Angel
10-02-2009, 18:31
Having bikes as troop options isn't a broken option.

Then neither is having TS as a troop choice. I have to use a different force slot for bikes, and you do for Sternguard. As for the gets hot thing, call your local Imperial Ministorium and complain that you want your shells daemonicly enchanted by Ahriman and his Cabal. :angel:

carldooley
10-02-2009, 18:36
tau empire -
piece of wargear for vehicles so Str5 weapons count as defensive weapons.

Eryx_UK
10-02-2009, 18:40
Then neither is having TS as a troop choice. I have to use a different force slot for bikes, and you do for Sternguard. As for the gets hot thing, call your local Imperial Ministorium and complain that you want your shells daemonicly enchanted by Ahriman and his Cabal. :angel:

Theres a huge difference between bikes and a core troop unit with AP3 weapons and an Inv save. If TS were an elite choice (like Sternguard are) I wouldn't have a problem, but they arn't and that makes them a broken choice for troops.

ReveredChaplainDrake
10-02-2009, 18:51
Tyranids: As a whole, Tyranids are afflicted by convergent evolution. Namely, everything has turned into a Carnifex, a Hive Tyrant, a Genestealer, or occasionally a Zoanthrope. Make other options that aren't as useful more competitive, while keeping too-good stuff wrangled in.
-Cheaper Hormagaunts with optional Without Number.
-Have a way to neutralize (negate would be to broken) No Retreat. I suggest Symbiote Rippers in my redux. Basically you buy 1 per 8 Gaunts and they follow the unit around. They can't be killed (they're just counters) and they can't attack, but each one subtracts 1 from the amount of No Retreat wounds a Brood would have to take.
-Tougher Warriors. If Warriors had more than just T4, 2 Eternal wounds, and a 4+ save (while it sounds impressive, consider you're spending about 35-50 pts for all those goodies on any Warrior who can fight at least decently) they'd be more useful, and in turn Gaunts would be more useful.
-Return the Heavy Warriors!
-Cheaper Rending, except Genestealers.
-Scuttling Genestealers become Fast Attack. Not only does this nerf their absurdity now, but it means that I can take both Genestealers and Gaunt hordes. The main reason I don't do that now is because Genestealers eat up valuable Troops slots, so I have to pick.
-Elite Carnifexes get easier to kill, but faster (Fleet) and more skilled (WS4 base).

Chaos Marines: CSM are just fine as a competitive army. In fact, they're one of the best. I just wished they were reworked to such a way where the internal balance wasn't terrible. Sure, you can field pretty much any kind of CSM army you want... but why would you when you could field the most powerful builds possible?
-Daemon Prince becomes 0-1.
-Lash of Submission replaced with either a different rule entirely (preferably something to do with making it harder to get to grips with; -1 to all hit rolls against it?), the current Pavane of Slaaneesh, or a 2D6 scatter + Pinning move.
-Khorne Daemon Princes get something better than +1 attacks.
-Daemon Weapons that roll 1 still attack the enemy, only they attack back after all other attacks.
-Daemonic Rune!!!!
-Greater and Lesser Daemons with Marks.
-Chaos Icons only count for WYSIWYG purposes, and thus doesn't count as actual equipment specialists that can be killed.
-Lesser Daemons may take their own Icons, allowing for 3-attack Daemons, I5 Daemons, T5 Daemons, and 4+ IV Daemons.
-Greater Daemons may be upgraded, but marks that confer different effects. If the effects directly carry over, Tzeentch and Slaaneesh would be far too good compared to Khorne and Nurgle. I'm thinking of...
--Khorne: Wings;
--Nurgle: +1 Wound;
--Tzeentch: buy a psychic power and cast automatically;
--Slaaneesh: Fleet.
-Chosen may pick a Veteran Skill.
-Make Possessed roll for their ability before any models are deployed, not after.
-Raptor Plasma Pistol cost goes way down.
-Spawn with FNP and half the cost.
... and the list goes on. Suffice it to say, the CSM codex is one of the least fun of all 40k books to use. They're almost as bad as Necrons.

Tau: Not much, actually. Tau are probably right where all armies should be in terms of power level. However, they could do with some modernizing.
-Darker fluff. We all know about the eutopian society that the Tau are supposed to have, but the 41st millennium is no place for any eutopia. C'mon, let's hear about how the Ethereals are really jerking the Tau around!
-Rework all items that refer to Target Priority tests.
-Probably the biggest one is to change Pulse Rifles from Rapid Fire to Assault 1. Would help to make them more dynamic. This also makes the Burst Cannon more unique.
-Increase the range of the Pulse Carbine to make it a legitimate contender to the default Pulse Rifle in Fire Warrior teams.
-Re-balance Disruption Pods and Decoy Launchers. Every edition, it seems that one always sucks and one is always awesome. Why can't both be good?
-XV-22 Commanders with various weapon options. Mostly for aesthetics.
-Kroot with Fieldcraft replaced with Move Through Cover and Stealth. Forests are not very abundant where I play.
-Vespid with better guns and/or better combat capability.
-Different Drone options than just Sniper, Marker, Shield, and "Gun". However, limit who can have what kinds. For example, publicize Shadowsun's Command and Control Drone, but make it special issue.
-Weapons on the "drones" of Hammerheads, Skyrays, etc. always count as Support Weapons, no matter their strength.
-Troop Pathfinders. With all Grenades free, but with a slight points increase. Also, don't force them to take a Devilfish. Fish are nice, but that requirement is so stupid, IMHO.

The Tau changes I suggest are all part of the Tau redux I'm writing. Speaking of which, the great thing about a redux is that, if it's any good, you could actually house rule it. The problem is finding test subjects. Everybody wants a playtested product, but nobody wants to get trounced by an "under construction" list. :rolleyes:

Sekhmet
10-02-2009, 18:53
Theres a huge difference between bikes and a core troop unit with AP3 weapons and an Inv save. If TS were an elite choice (like Sternguard are) I wouldn't have a problem, but they arn't and that makes them a broken choice for troops.

I'd rather have bikes than thousand sons as troops.

Or wraithguard.

Or terminators.

Or mega armored nobz.

Or biker nobz.

Or deff dreads.

Or plague marine (one of the best troops in the game imo).

Or eldar pathfinders.

Or wyches.

Or genestealers.

Or boyz.

Basically the only armies that get screwed in the troops department are Necrons and Tau, imo.

Hell's Angel
10-02-2009, 18:56
Theres a huge difference between bikes and a core troop unit with AP3 weapons and an Inv save. If TS were an elite choice (like Sternguard are) I wouldn't have a problem, but they arn't and that makes them a broken choice for troops.

They are a very very specialized troop choice. Specificly anti infantry. Sterguard are more flexable. Like I said if you dont like then take Rhinos. They are not broken, or overpriced as is.

Gorbad Ironclaw
10-02-2009, 19:09
Thousand Sons suffers from being a very specialised choice. Marines don't like them at all, yeah, but my Orks would much rather see them than the equivalent in normal CSMs on the field, simply because they are no more dangerous to me with my 6+ save than normals CSMs are, but are much more expensive.

LordofWar1986
10-02-2009, 19:11
There are some things I would change for the following armies:
Tyranids:
-Cheapen up most of the units (hormagaunts need it BAD!!)
-Introduce a weapon that can actually penetrate non-open topped AV 14 vehicles.

Black Templars:
-At the very least, I would like to see the Storm Shield to be like those in C:SM.
-Righteous Zeal does not seem as good as it was in 4th Ed. I have not the slightest clue on how it could be changed for 5th Ed, it just seems like it needs it. 3rd Edition RZ rules would rock though!!

loveless
10-02-2009, 19:37
Thousand Sons suffers from being a very specialised choice. Marines don't like them at all, yeah, but my Orks would much rather see them than the equivalent in normal CSMs on the field, simply because they are no more dangerous to me with my 6+ save than normals CSMs are, but are much more expensive.

Agreeing with Gorbad, here.

So many players still seem to think that Space Marines are the end-all be-all of 40K. I think most players are going to have a far more difficult time with Orks than MEQs these days...

A Thousand Son is better at killing something with a 3+/4+ save, but is vastly overcosted against 5+/6+ save units.

So what if they have a 4+ invulnerable? It's not like they're really doing that much damage in combat or at range. Simply put, there are better options for the Chaos player if he really wants to be a threat.

Besides, the plus side to the current Chaos Marine codex is the wide selection of troops they can field. They may be the equivalent to a lot of army's elites, but that's the benefit of playing Chaos Marines instead of some other army.

Besides, a Thousand Son can't be that much harder to kill than a Plague Marine.

Wolflord Havoc
10-02-2009, 20:33
Ork Codexs -

Number 1 change would be number of attacks on basic Ork models = 1 not 2

They have increased their firepower with (almost 100% assault weapons with 18" - 36" range and multiple shots the basic shoota is almost as good as a storm bolter and equal to a Shuri!), as well speed across the board and more often than not get a 4+ cover save with the ed5 basic rules. They do not need twice as many attacks as every other huminoid creature. I mean how often have we seen them thump into a unit of <anything> with a bucket of CC dice and come out the other side!!

Number 2 change - Proper rules for the Big Mek force field - it should create a force field template of 'cover' - if an ork unit has the majority of models under the template (or combined with other cover) then they get the 4+.

Bit fed up with the entire ork army getting a 5+ save (4+ on models) where single models from half a dozen squads are within the 'zone'.

Eldar Codex: Rubber Hawks - stop them from leaving the table the turn they arrive. And I have heard all the arguments - it just does not work for me! I mean this game 'implies' that both 'player' turns happen at the same time - but due to the nessesities of game mechanics it cannot work like that - however the Swooping hawks can arrive - drop a big explosive on a target and fly away again.

So what was the other army doing why this was going on?

"Hold your fire lads - its not our turn".

I still believe that they do not work as 'originally' intended.

kera_dahlin
10-02-2009, 22:50
I would like to see a "Pocket Section" issued like what they do with law books, Essentialy if they change a rule you can get an updated small book which goes in the back which lists changes and the reasons for the changes, this way everyone dosent have to go out and buy a book but can instead spend their warhammer budget on building and improving their army

Captain Galenus
10-02-2009, 23:01
Even though I play Ultramarines, I hate seeing Calgar or Sicarius in almost every UM army. I use the new Sicarius model cos it fits the build I use for my captain.
Bring back a more limited trait system which is accessed by upgrading your chapter master or captain.
Allow command and honour guard squads jump packs
Bring variant lists in line with main codex, ie PoMS, transport capacity, etc

CSM- bring back more legion specific options, markable summoned daemons, more options for daemon princes and lords

Eldar- increase Eldrad's points cost

Thrax
11-02-2009, 01:49
Exactly, Captain Galenus! Having the chapter master show up for every skirmish gets really old.

"Sergeant, looks like another victory since we were able to infiltrate that tactical squad!"
"Yes sir, it's a good thing Captain Sicarius was on hand to help us take out that ork latrine!" Puh-leeze.

Maybe make traits cost something, and maybe make it cost more when you have greater forces around, but making "special characters" change your army's centuries of training is just lame.

On a side note, though I play orks the basic boy is too cheap. Make him 7 points.

Corrode
11-02-2009, 01:59
Actually arn't all craftworld not avaliable? Is there fluff in the codex so that a newbie who dosn't know anything about craftworld or Eldars can make specific craftworld fluff lists?

Perhaps you'd prefer it if GW just issued army lists (in 1500, 1850 and 2000pts flavours) which told you what to take to make a specific Craftworld. Who needs choices or reading when you can just be told what to do with your army by someone else?

The Chapter Master option in the SM Codex does seem a little odd. For the cost you can reasonably take them in a 1000pts list - and most of the Special Characters aren't exactly far away from that cost. Marneus Calgar, Lord Macragge and Captain of the Patrol doesn't sound quite as intimidating, does it?

Kettu
11-02-2009, 02:00
Sisters - Make Penitent Engines Monstrous Creatures. (Walkers blow up far too easily)
Give Celestin CC options and Sarrisas on their bolters. (CC experts who can't cc weapons? WTF GW?)
Repentia, MAKE USEFUL! I don't know, feel no pain? Cheaper pts cost? Better rules? All of the above?
Add Repressor as a tank.
Give Cannoness and Palatine Celestin and/or Seraphim rules. What they get promoted and they FORGET their training?