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meanmachine
08-02-2009, 16:55
hi

i'm new to fantasy.
can you tell me if a saurus oldblood with 4+ scaly skin save that has an enchanted shield and light armour becomes a 1+ armour save

nosferatu1001
08-02-2009, 17:01
Yes, scaly scan is a "stackable" armour save - so 4+ AS becomes 2+ becomes 1+. or -1+ on a Cold One!

Mr_Rose
08-02-2009, 17:57
Indeed. Scaly skin is cumulative with every other type of mundane armour/armour save bonus, such as that for being mounted on a steed or having a shield, so an Oldblood with light armour, an enchanted shield and hand weapon would be getting a 1+ save vs shooting and a 0+ save in close combat.

It's just a pity the Sacred Stegadon Helm is skinks only...

Neckutter
08-02-2009, 18:55
which is funny, because to fit on a skink, it must be an extremely small stegadon's skull.

Necromancy Black
08-02-2009, 22:40
Indeed. Scaly skin is cumulative with every other type of mundane armour/armour save bonus, such as that for being mounted on a steed or having a shield, so an Oldblood with light armour, an enchanted shield and hand weapon would be getting a 1+ save vs shooting and a 0+ save in close combat.

It's just a pity the Sacred Stegadon Helm is skinks only...

Throw him on a cold one and it's a straight -1+AS. On foot with Cold One armour is 0+, -1+ in hand to hand and he's toughness 6. Seriously some of the heavier armoured characters out there.

Neckutter
09-02-2009, 02:23
he is pretty much a beast. 1+(or better) armor save, T6, effective leadership of 10ish. plus there are some great combos of magic weapons. it is a really effective lord, and any fighty characters would be hard-pressed to handle him in HtH.

nickdahkwik
09-02-2009, 16:28
yes sir all above are perfectly right scaly skin is a "stackable" save so good choice in magic items my friend and go new lizardmen!

RiTides Nids
09-02-2009, 20:15
Indeed. Scaly skin is cumulative with every other type of mundane armour/armour save bonus, such as that for being mounted on a steed or having a shield, so an Oldblood with light armour, an enchanted shield and hand weapon would be getting a 1+ save vs shooting and a 0+ save in close combat.

If you've got an oldblood, you're probably not going to be giving him a hand weapon, right? Probably another magical weapon instead- which would make the save 2+? Unless those count as "hand weapons" too? I saw a question about the blade of realities about this and people were saying it would NOT count as a hand weapon, and so not give the save bonus...

Sorry if this is obvious, still learning here :)

Mr_Rose
09-02-2009, 21:07
If you've got an oldblood, you're probably not going to be giving him a hand weapon, right? Probably another magical weapon instead- which would make the save 2+? Unless those count as "hand weapons" too? I saw a question about the blade of realities about this and people were saying it would NOT count as a hand weapon, and so not give the save bonus...

Sorry if this is obvious, still learning here :)

That is indeed the case; Magical weapons only grant the Hand Weapon/Shield bonus if they specify that they are a Hand Weapon. If you're looking in the Lizardmen book, check out the Stegadon War-spear which specifies that it's a Lance; that's the sort of declaration you're looking for.

N.B. There is still a certain amount of debate whether a magical hand weapon can be used with a mundane hand weapon to grant +1A; RAW this isn't possible without a specific exception in the item's description, but some don't see it that way.

Neckutter
09-02-2009, 22:03
the only magical HW i can think of is the Dark elf one, and it can be used for +1 A

Nurgling Chieftain
09-02-2009, 22:12
N.B. There is still a certain amount of debate whether a magical hand weapon can be used with a mundane hand weapon to grant +1A; RAW this isn't possible without a specific exception in the item's description, but some don't see it that way.BTW, when he says "some don't see it that way" he's talking about GW's own FAQ's (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2250130_DarkElves_FAQ_Jan09). :p The only "specific exception" required to be in the item's description is that it counts as a hand weapon.

Mr_Rose
09-02-2009, 22:23
Huh? How's that then?
The Dagger of Hotek has just such a specific exception and the only thing in the FAQ that addresses that is the ridiculous concept of using three weapons to gain +2A. I don't see any problem with combining a scourge with the dagger for +1A, nor do I see any contrary statements in the FAQ.

Necromancy Black
09-02-2009, 23:17
The rules for Magic Weapons in the BRB specifically forbid the use of and other weapon while they have a magical weapon.

Neckutter
09-02-2009, 23:48
although the dagger of hotek breaks that rule. again, which i think is the only magical HW in the game? oh and crone hellebron has two magical HWs as well.

Necromancy Black
10-02-2009, 01:48
The crone breaks the rule but as a speacial character there's not much you can do about it.

And the dagger doesn't actually break the rule. You still can not use an additional handweapon with the dagger as the rule clearly states you cna not use another weapon.

What the dagger is good for though is that +1 armour save in close combat when used with a shield.

Lord Dan
10-02-2009, 02:13
the only magical HW i can think of is the Dark elf one, and it can be used for +1 A

Bretonnian sword of the quest.

sulla
10-02-2009, 03:34
which is funny, because to fit on a skink, it must be an extremely small stegadon's skull.

Like the poor baby lions the White Lion unit must club to death to get their pretty capes... much smaller than the ones they enslave to pull their chariots.

Neckutter
10-02-2009, 04:03
And the dagger doesn't actually break the rule. You still can not use an additional handweapon with the dagger as the rule clearly states you cna not use another weapon.

What the dagger is good for though is that +1 armour save in close combat when used with a shield.

the dagger of hotek: "the dagger is an additional handweapon, (it can be used with a mundane hand weapon) and grants the bearer the always strikes first rule."

pretty clear you can use it and a handweapon for +1A.


Bretonnian sword of the quest.

wow, good get. :P

Necromancy Black
10-02-2009, 04:49
Oh ok, I didn't realised it had an entire rule saying that it could be used with another handweapon. I though it simply had the "hand weapon" rule, not a ruling saying it can override the Magic Weapon rule and be used with another weapon. My bad.

Nicha11
10-02-2009, 05:12
he is pretty much a beast. 1+(or better) armor save, T6, effective leadership of 10ish. plus there are some great combos of magic weapons. it is a really effective lord, and any fighty characters would be hard-pressed to handle him in HtH.


He's toughness 5.

Necromancy Black
10-02-2009, 05:28
He's toughness 5.

I think he meant T6 after my post about throwing Cold One Armour on him. Could be wrong :p