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View Full Version : predators, cheap n' good?



ruttman15
08-02-2009, 21:29
since you can take really cheap predators in the SM codex, you can put in two really cheap preds, and still have tons of points left over, but you would still have two solid heavy support. would it be more competitive to have two cheap preds at low cost, or have really costly heavies? because I do want a lot of infantry for my army, so I was thinking predators would be the way to go. thoughts?

FunkyRatDemon
08-02-2009, 21:38
2 Preds w/ Autocannon + 2 Heavybolters and Extra Armour is dead cheap
Its fills the anti-infantry school, which leaves room in Tacticals for High-S or Low-AP weapons

ruttman15
08-02-2009, 21:55
yeah... and preds look SWEET :D

imweasel
08-02-2009, 23:22
Dakka preds are one of the best buys out there.

Hard to go wrong with that in your list.

Snotteef
09-02-2009, 00:00
Agreed. Even with the reduction in mobile firepower that 5th edition has re-introduced, they're still a great buy at 100 points!

Warboss Antoni
09-02-2009, 00:13
Don't even bother with sponsons. A autocannon with a pintle storm bolter = win. Add upgrades as seen fit.

Steel_Legion
09-02-2009, 00:24
Is it 100pt for the Pred with AC and sponson HBs? I thought it was ALOT more for the sponsons now, something I am dreading will happen with the Leman Russ...
I agree, Sponson HB, Autocannon and hey, why not a storm bolter if you have the free points? 10 shots against light infantry, that'll cut em down

Snotteef
09-02-2009, 00:29
Actually, I probably wasn't supposed to list points cost... sorry. But yeah, that's the correct cost for HB sponsons and extra armor.

starlight
09-02-2009, 01:33
Listing unit or model point *totals* is acceptable, but listing a complete break down would not be. :)

ruttman15
09-02-2009, 02:23
yeah... besides, since im a magnet head (i have a chapter master with 15 different arms :D) im going to configure it to be any variant. But i think i will stick with the autocannon and bolters (or no bolters). it seems like if you kit one out with full lascannons, then as it doesnt have as much armor as say, a landraider, someone could just pop it with anti tank... I think cheapening it is worth it probably.

imweasel
09-02-2009, 02:45
Don't even bother with sponsons. A autocannon with a pintle storm bolter = win. Add upgrades as seen fit.

Skip on 2 hb's for a measly 25 points?

Instead take a storm bolter for 10?

:wtf:

RichBlake
09-02-2009, 02:48
Why would you take extra armour?

It turns "cant move and shoot"

to

"Cant shoot"

Good for transport, not so good for shooty tanks.

blackroyal
09-02-2009, 02:52
RichBlake, that's my thoughts as well. There is no real reason to give a Pred extra armor.

Reinholt
09-02-2009, 02:59
A couple of thoughts:

1 - I don't know why you'd take extra armor on a predator. It's not a transport, so turning "Can't move or shoot" into "Can't shoot" still kills the primary purpose of the vehicle.

2 - You would take the autocannon and the storm bolter because you can move and shoot them (the storm bolter is a defensive weapon and the autocannon is the main weapon for the tank), something you cannot do with the autocannon and the twin sponson heavy bolters. It's a choice between less firepower and more mobility vs. more firepower and less mobility.

Snotteef
09-02-2009, 03:14
Why would you take extra armour?

It turns "cant move and shoot"

to

"Cant shoot"

Good for transport, not so good for shooty tanks.

You take it so that the tank can do something when it is stunned. It can manuevre for a better field of fire next turn, or it can move out of line of sight of whatever just created the 'stunned' result.

In the end - you're right - you don't need it, but it is useful some of the time. It's an easy way to spend those last few points, that aren't going anywhere else.

Lord Humongous
09-02-2009, 05:00
For chaos players, its tempting to slap a Havoc Launcher on those dakka preds- its like getting TWO sets of Heavy Bolters. Good idea, or does it turn something cheap and good into something no longer cheap and maybe to good (and thus an attractive target)?

Bathawk
09-02-2009, 05:12
You take it so that the tank can do something when it is stunned. It can manuevre for a better field of fire next turn, or it can move out of line of sight of whatever just created the 'stunned' result.

In the end - you're right - you don't need it, but it is useful some of the time. It's an easy way to spend those last few points, that aren't going anywhere else.

yeah but there is so much more you can do with 15 points, If it was "5" I would agree with you, but 15?

mughi3
09-02-2009, 10:03
I've not been a fan of preds since 3rd, it's the side armor. they are to easy to shake/stun or kill. especially with 5th ed LOS rules. if they upeed the side by even a single point of AV it would be worth it. othewise your better off dropping other options in your HS slots that will perform better.

buzz631
09-02-2009, 11:03
when i use my preds i usually kit them out with twin linked lascannon and heavy bolters giving me a bit of versatility but when it comes down to it i suppose it depends on what army you are going up against and how you want the vehicle to perform

Fixer
09-02-2009, 11:09
I'm not much of a fan at the moment.

For me the reason for taking vehicles over other infantry is to have mobile firepower. In 3rd the las/HB pred with extra armor was great. A mobile anti tank weapon that also had heavy bolters for a versatile weapons platform that could chase down all those light skimmers.

4th if you move the vehicle with the dakkapred, you have one autocannon or one heavy bolter. In order to make the most of it you have to remain static, and the new vehicle rules mean that any static vehicle is going to be wrecked or destroyed by almost any unit that touches it in CC.

For mobile firepower, you're much better off with landspeeder squadrons, attack bikes or twin weapon dreadnoughts. Or you could go for twin AC razorbacks which don't use up HS options.

The_Outsider
09-02-2009, 12:22
Personally i'm a fan of a pred with just turret lascannon - sure it racks up cost but it is still fairly cheap and is on a durable platform with decent mobility. Two or three preds like that will quite easily swipe most armour off the table long before the enemy can kill them.

Gorbad Ironclaw
09-02-2009, 12:28
I've not been a fan of preds since 3rd, it's the side armor. they are to easy to shake/stun or kill. especially with 5th ed LOS rules. if they upeed the side by even a single point of AV it would be worth it. othewise your better off dropping other options in your HS slots that will perform better.

I disagree. For 95 points you get 6 Heavy Bolter shots and 2 Autocannon shots. Yes, the side armour can be a problem, but really, the predator should be in the back. Ideal it should just sit in terrain for the 4+ cover save and shoot.

If something have time and opportunity to go around your entire army and take out the predator then you are probably in a bad position anyway. I never had a problem with my predator being killed fast. It's cheap, decent firepower but not that high a priority target usually and you can make it quite difficult to take down.

I'd agree on not bothering with Extra Armour though. For 15 points it's plain not worth it IMO.

mughi3
09-02-2009, 13:43
If something have time and opportunity to go around your entire army and take out the predator then you are probably in a bad position anyway
Ok i am really sick of hearing this, do you people actually play 5th ed?

There is no way for you to "hide" in the back anymore with a pred

most armies have nasty units that can outflank and create an 18" threat radius on either table end eating up 3' of board space to "hide in" for cover saves and lets face it 70-80% of the armies out there are space marines so your going to be dealing with pods dropping right in on you from turn 1 and thats not even counting units running across the field or the new LOS rules now.

No i am sorry a pred was decent in 4th because it could be a moble gun platform (but it still suffered from weak side armor, now there are to many other things that can do the same job without eating a HS slot and without the mobility/shooting restrictions placed on tanks now. there is a reason why so many people are running vindicators. thelast GT i was at nearly half the armis there were full of them.

i can put a razorback in every tac squad for well under 95 points, move and fire for full effect with a nice variety of weapons and have 6 marines riding along to bolster it's peformance and since it has the same AV as the side of a pred it is just likely to survive. especialy since there will be more of them.

Don't getme wrong i used to use preds back in 3rd and had some fun with them but now i will never run them(the old rules for the chaos upgrades were actually realy good with mutated hulls and parasitic/demonic posession, they were like mini land raiders). they are just to fragile and restricted. for 85 points i can take a whirlwind and actually try and hide it while still firing for full effect against infantry which is basicaly what your pred is doing and since i am dropping a pieplate i am more likely to hit something.

The only way i have seen preds work in 5th is when you spam the board with armor(rhino's razorbacks, dreds etc..) so that the enemy is hard pressed to choose which tank to shoot at or assault.

buzz631
09-02-2009, 14:03
i dunno like used me pred yesterday and was playing against dark eldar the heavy bolters kept two squads from claiming a certain objective and the lascannon took out a raider pilled with troops and it just sat in the middle of my quarter taking pot shots works well for me

Bekenel
09-02-2009, 14:37
Ok i am really sick of hearing this, do you people actually play 5th ed?

There is no way for you to "hide" in the back anymore with a pred

most armies have nasty units that can outflank and create an 18" threat radius on either table end eating up 3' of board space to "hide in" for cover saves and lets face it 70-80% of the armies out there are space marines so your going to be dealing with pods dropping right in on you from turn 1 and thats not even counting units running across the field or the new LOS rules now.

No i am sorry a pred was decent in 4th because it could be a moble gun platform (but it still suffered from weak side armor, now there are to many other things that can do the same job without eating a HS slot and without the mobility/shooting restrictions placed on tanks now. there is a reason why so many people are running vindicators. thelast GT i was at nearly half the armis there were full of them.

i can put a razorback in every tac squad for well under 95 points, move and fire for full effect with a nice variety of weapons and have 6 marines riding along to bolster it's peformance and since it has the same AV as the side of a pred it is just likely to survive. especialy since there will be more of them.

Don't getme wrong i used to use preds back in 3rd and had some fun with them but now i will never run them(the old rules for the chaos upgrades were actually realy good with mutated hulls and parasitic/demonic posession, they were like mini land raiders). they are just to fragile and restricted. for 85 points i can take a whirlwind and actually try and hide it while still firing for full effect against infantry which is basicaly what your pred is doing and since i am dropping a pieplate i am more likely to hit something.

The only way i have seen preds work in 5th is when you spam the board with armor(rhino's razorbacks, dreds etc..) so that the enemy is hard pressed to choose which tank to shoot at or assault.

I think you're being unfair with that reply - I'm sure most people are playing 5th these days. In my local meta-game I rarely see Drop-pods (since most people prefer Rhinos), and the outflanking units of doom are rare too - which is funny, since we're usually restricted to 4x4 tables, where Outflank becomes even more deadly.

You also contradict yourself - you claim that you can't hide a Predator, but can somehow hide a Whirlwind? Don't get me wrong, I use both a AC/HB Predator and a Whirlwind in my current army, but the Predator usually does more damage - purely because if my Whirlwind is hiding, any scatter is usually painful. Remember, you don't subtract your BS if you don't have LOS - and you shouldn't have LOS if you are hiding.

Plus Vindicators are more common because a) fully plastic kit and b) stupidily cheap, even if you do take the far-too-good Siege Shield.

Essentially, it boils down to a local meta-game more than anything, which I think most people forget about when they post on here.

Crusaderobr
09-02-2009, 14:42
I have 2 Autocannon/Heavybolter Preds in my army. At 85 points each, they are a steal for what you get. I usually deploy them together on a flank ( as long as my opponent doesnt have an outflanking squad against me ) and my opponents either shoot at them ( thus my rhinos and space marines are unharmed ). Or they ignore them and watch as they chew up thier infantry/light transports. They also add to armor saturation to your army if you run rhinos. You should not take them if they will be your only armor in your army, but that goes with any vehicle. Most of the time I do not move them so deployment is very important. You must deploy them properly otherwise you will miss out on some shots. Really, I dont know what all the fuss is about, if you dont know how to use it with the new 5th ed rules, then yes by all means take a whirlwind or something else thats easier for you to play with, and as always have fun with your army, and take what you think you will have fun with. ;)

Fixer
09-02-2009, 15:31
The armor facing rules make hiding a predator's front armor difficult.

Remember, that it's the actual facing, not half the entire tank that you must hide. If a vehicle is shooting you in the front arc as the predator's comes from an alleyway so it's covered on both sides, even at the corner where you can only see a fraction of the actual tank, you are still not concealed from it's attack. So in the case of the pred you're looking at having to hide the bottom half of the vehicle behind a barricade, stay behind some trees/infantry or miss out shooting with your sponsons.

With whirlwinds it's easier because you can just put it behind anything so it's completely obscured and the weapon can fire without line of sight.