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View Full Version : daemonic icons... unique or not?



Neckutter
09-02-2009, 21:13
i was wondering how you guys see daemonic icons. some people say that you can take multiple of the same icon for DoC, and some say you cant.

i am in the camp that say you cant have multiple icons of the same type.

my reasoning: the DoC Faq says that they are treated as magic items. page 120 of the BRB says that only one magic item can be taken per army. also daemonic icons are not daemonic gifts, because i cant find a place where it says they are considered daemonic gifts. daemonic icons have their own entry under "daemonic icons" and not under "daemonic gifts".

i do however see people making armylists with multiple icons of the same type, and people somehow think this is how it goes.

what do you guys think?

Neckutter
09-02-2009, 22:01
we have people arguing about vanhel's danse macabre's 8" move all day, and no one wants to touch this thread with a ten foot pole?

Nurgling Chieftain
09-02-2009, 22:05
Well, it had a gigantic argument about it back in the day, so no, nobody really wants to re-open it. My recollection is that the evidence that daemonic icons are gifts is actually fairly strong, making the situation one where they both are and aren't magic items by the same FAQ.

Reinnon
09-02-2009, 22:15
Basically, the FAQ just adds confusion to what was a pretty simple situation.

The FAQ says that they are magic items that follow all the rules for gifts... the only rule for gifts being that they arn't magic items.

It caused a pretty big debate, with no real outcome.

Neckutter
09-02-2009, 22:40
ah, ok. well i guess it means that they both are and arent magic items. i guess it could go either way, and no need to open up another can of flamewar.

i guess you haveta go with the warhammer FAQ #1 where you are supposed to strive to be generous with your opponent. :)

Bac5665
09-02-2009, 23:50
Icons are gifts, neither of which are magic items in any way. They aren't hidden, and they can be duplicated. The FAQ was so badly written as to be meaningless. Just ignore it.

Neckutter
09-02-2009, 23:56
where does it say icons are gifts?

Reinnon
10-02-2009, 01:41
When it says that icons are magic items that follow the rules of icons.

Its a really badly worded answer, so badly that its basically meaningless.

blackjack
10-02-2009, 01:47
Read it again, it specificy states

Should icons be treated as magic times

"Yes they are magic items in all respects with the caveats listed on page 92 of the deamon book. Remember that gifts may be taken more than once in an army."

Page 92 states that gifts can be taken more than once in the same army.

Page 92 makes no referance to icons, just gifts

So we must conclude one of two things

A. The writer is a Zen master seeking to shock our consousness into a higher state of being by refering us to page numbers where caveats on gifts but not icons can be found and specificly spouts irrelevant rules about gifts in response to an icons question.

B. The writer intends that icons be treated as gifts and is reminding us that gifts can be taken more than once.
.

Neckutter
10-02-2009, 02:07
Read it again, it specificy states

Should icons be treated as magic times

"Yes they are magic items in all respects with the caveats listed on page 92 of the deamon book. Remember that gifts may be taken more than once in an army."

Page 92 states that gifts can be taken more than once in the same army.

Page 92 makes no referance to icons, just gifts

So we must conclude one of two things

A. The writer is a Zen master seeking to shock our consousness into a higher state of being by refering us to page numbers where caveats on gifts but not icons can be found and specificly spouts irrelevant rules about gifts in response to an icons question.

B. The writer intends that icons be treated as gifts and is reminding us that gifts can be taken more than once.
.

or C that daemonic icons are unique because they are magic items, and that daemonic gifts are not magic items and thus can be reproduced any number of times per army.

again, you would have to infer what GW intended, which is always a bad idea. i wish they would just come out and explicitly say that icons are considered daemonic gifts as well.

oh, well. i guess if everyone else is using daemonic icons as non-unique i guess i will too.

Dokushin
10-02-2009, 03:45
So, icons are magic item gifts that are neither magic items nor gifts, but are treated as both magic items and gifts, with the exception that they follow no magic item rules, and have special rules for gifts which don't affect gifts at all.

Got ya. Glad we got that straightened out. *thud*

Neckutter
10-02-2009, 04:03
well that is what other people think the FAQ says, but i dont want to get into it. :)

but yeah, i feel your pain. GW rules as of late are lacking a lot of black/white characteristic and it feels like more and more rules are in the grey area.