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MSU
10-02-2009, 15:27
How do you determine which chart to roll on when using the Giant special attacks? Some cases are easy; man models use the small one; ogres and larger use the big one. What about cavalry? What about multi wound cavalry (pegasus knights, bloodcrushers)?

The rulebook (WoC) says: "for man sized models" use the small chart and "for larger creatures" use the bigger chart. But I think that multi wound cavalry would fit between these two designations. Do you not go by wounds and go by base size? Please help.

EldarBishop
10-02-2009, 15:33
Normal calvary should be on the "small" chart. I'd guess that Pegasus Knights would be on the "big" chart (since they are 40x40mm).

Mr_Rose
10-02-2009, 15:34
Cavalry, especially cavalry that has a mount and rider, even if the total model is multi-wound, uses the small chart. Basically, you'd want to go by Unit Strength; US3+ = big chart. All else = small chart.
Of course, there are some exceptions, like the Dwarf Lord with shieldbearers.

MSU
10-02-2009, 15:46
What about Flesh hounds, dire wolves, and warhounds? Flesh hounds have 2 wounds each, the others have one. They are all not man sized nor are they large creature sized.

nosferatu1001
10-02-2009, 15:55
Fleshhounds count as Cavalry, and are therefore US2

Asmodiseus
10-02-2009, 15:56
All of those go on the small chart, So Fell bats go on the small chart or the big chart?

Mr_Rose
10-02-2009, 16:03
Ack! That one's difficult. It makes slightly more sense that the giant'd try to swing with club across the whole unit rather than chomp them, but if it were a jungle swarm he'd probably try to squish them, either by thumping or jumping.
I'm gonna say big chart for now though; I can see where all three results make sense for a swarm, whereas several results on the small chart just don't ant to work.

EDIT: Oh, you said Fell Bats, sorry; small chart. Thought you said Bat Swarms there.

Braad
10-02-2009, 16:04
Fell bats I would put on the big chart. 40mm bases, would be my justification in this. Just like ogres, dragons etc.
Swarms, infantry, cavalry, single horses/hounds/wolves on the small one.

Or in other words:
-Anything on square 20 and 25 and cavalry bases: small
-Anything on square 40, 50, larger, and not based: large
Ofcourse, exceptions arise: what about skarsnik for example? And swarms indeed...

If you look at the actual size of an ogre model, and then anyhing smaller: small chart and anything larger: large chart.

I guess, in the end, it has a bit of player interpretation.

MSU
10-02-2009, 16:43
But that brings us back to the original question: Bloodcrushers are cavalry are on 50mm bases and are clearly 'bigger' than an ogre, but they are clearly classified as 'cavalry'.

It makes a difference for me because it would let me know if I wanted to field a Chaos Giant vs Khorne daemons. The large chart is favorable for fighting daemonic Bloodcrushers (low initiative, high armor save), but not favorable when using the small chart.

Is this just something that has not been clearly defined in a FAQ somewhere for giants?

Braad
10-02-2009, 21:44
Actually, I think it is better to use the small chart against any type of multi-model unit, as the large chart only allows attacks against single models... Even if you roll those 2D6 wounds, they only apply on a single Bloodcrusher...

On the other hand, jumping up and down affects the whole unit.

But I would classify bloodcrushers as being big things. Hard to say why, though, but they look about the same size as on ogre.

theunwantedbeing
10-02-2009, 23:10
Go off unit strength.
Us1-2, little things
Us3+, big things

Just seems easier to do it that way.

Braad
11-02-2009, 07:28
Yes, but it seems a bit weird that giant headbutts a snotling...

Its true though, that having a hard-cut ruling is good, and usually I stick to it the way you give it, but for swarms its too odd if you ask me, and I would leave them to the small-chart.

Lord Khabal
11-02-2009, 09:47
Swarm headbutting is a giants favorite hobby!!!

Someday GW will realize that every unit must be defined by classes (infantry / cavalry / monster / skirmisher / war machine / chariot / flying infantry / flying cavalry / handled monster / characters - maybe more) and then these issues will magically go away. that and put 2 more spaces on the units profile: US and base size.

Braad
11-02-2009, 10:17
For most units I know, unit strenght is quite clearly defined somewhere. Base size should indeed be mentioned, would solve many troubles, I can only agree to that...

Why don't some people here try and get a job there? Maybe they can be influenced a bit. Infiltration we call that...

The Red Scourge
11-02-2009, 10:52
Why don't some people here try and get a job there? Maybe they can be influenced a bit. Infiltration we call that...

You must be mad. GW have no interest in perfection. First of all they want WFB to be a friendly and casual game. Second, if they made the perfect edition, it would be hard to justify the next one ;)

Asmodiseus
11-02-2009, 18:29
If you go to this site and scroll down a bit it has a download from a Whitedwarf of every units base size. It is a bit old so some units wont be included.

http://www.geocities.com/mi_whplayers/glwl.html

W0lf
11-02-2009, 22:18
US is best way to go. 3+ = big stuff.

Swarms obviously as an exeption.

hardygun
12-02-2009, 15:57
Is it possible the charts are referring to models with the large target modifier? This might make it easier to classify some things like swarms which usually have the small target modifier.

Nurgling Chieftain
12-02-2009, 17:05
Is it possible the charts are referring to models with the large target modifier?Sadly, no, as some models are specifically included which are not large targets.