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Nationalmaverick
11-02-2009, 08:59
Hey guys can anyone clear this up for me.

Example.

A Vampire in combat wants to cast Wind of Undeath, it doesnt require LOS so I figure it can cast, my opponent however, claims that unless it specifically states "can be cast in combat" theres no casting it.

The magic phase is a big part of my game, being Lizards and Vamps, but theres so many restrictions and problems that its a real pain to do anything major with it.

Personally I think there should be limitations on amount of dispel dice per dispel attempt.

Sifal
11-02-2009, 09:24
the rules are clear on this in the BRB. he should be able to cast it fine.

Gharof von Carstein
11-02-2009, 09:34
seeing as you have a vampire casting question and it has been answered mind if i highjack your thread?

i have a vampire casting question. would it be tournament legal if i debate the following.

i have a vampire lord lvl 4 so he gets to roll for 4 spells. for example i roll 1,1,5,6, i should get a reroll for the second 1 seeing as raise dead = necromancy and thus having 2 would be stupid. right? this is generally oke where im from. but. i roll a 4 instead but i really really want vanhels. seeing as i always have the option to substitute any roll for a 1, would it be ethical to keep replacing one spell for a 1, and get to reroll it? (due to necromancy = multicasting so double the 1 spell would be useless) just as long as i get the spells i want? there really is no ruling for this i know. the ruling in the BRB is tough cookies if you roll 4 times 1 you stick with it. but for a vampire this is just not practical and no one half sportsmanship like would force you to play with that.

this of course i know is another aspect of unsportsmanship like behaviour but its still kinda legal. isnt it?

narrativium
11-02-2009, 09:51
In answer to the Nationalmaverick's question: in general, a spell can only affect an enemy unit in combat if the spell specifies it can. A quick read of Winds of Undeath should answer this query.

In answer to Gharof von Carstein: page 111 specifies that a single wizard cannot possess duplicates of the same spell. You can reroll the duplicate 1 but since you have an original 1, you can't reduce any of your three other spells to 1 in order to reroll. (Otherwise there'd be nothing to stop you reducing the 4, 5 and 6 all down to 1 and simply reroll all spells until you were happy.)

Braad
11-02-2009, 10:09
Highjacking when a question has not been answered properly, is not a really nice thing...
As you noticed, I answered your other question...

Anyway, to the original:
Is this a specific VC lore spell? Cause I can't find it in the BRB.
However, if the spell says only "doesn't require line of sight" then that is not enough to cast it into combat.
Page 107 of the BRB, under 'casting spell's, 6th paragraph, I quote: "wizards cannot cast spells at units engaged in close combat, unlees the spell only affects the caster himself or the spell's description specifies otherwise".

Hope this answers it?

Personally, I don't think there should be a max to dispel dice, otherwise people who invest heavily on anti-magic, and then face an enemy who doesn't have much magic, cannot use its full potential to stop that little bit of magic, which may cause spells to come through.
Also, using too many dispel dice has a higher chance of rolling 2 or more 1'es, which auto-fails the dispel attempt. So the amount of dispel dice should always be thought through very well, even if you have 20 to stop a single last spell cast on 3 power dice.

Sifal
11-02-2009, 11:17
Wind of undeath is a specific VC spell that says, 'roll a D6 for every unit on the table (even if in combat).' So there is no problem with the engaged unit being targetted even if they are in combat with the Vampire casting it. then there is the question of can he cast it if engaged in CC. answer: yes. sometimes this varies based on type of spell (magic missiles etc) but is all in the BRB and spells sometimes add a caveat of - cannot be cast if the wizard is in combat.

The Red Scourge
11-02-2009, 11:23
The winds of undeath doesn't specifically target units you have to look through the DE FAQ on the Ring of Hotek to get into this.

This FAQ really screwed up MR too, but the bottom line is that the spell isn't targeted/cast at/whatever at 1 specific unit. In the same way as the Comet of Cassandora or a scattering stone thrower would be able to hit the unit, despite not being able to hit the unit confused? You should be its WFB :confused:

nosferatu1001
11-02-2009, 11:59
In general, you cannot cast a spel that effects a unit in CC unless you have a specific exemption to do so, e.g. "no targeting restrictions" or "even in close combat"

Magic missiles cannot be cast from inside close combat, unless you have a specific exemption to do so or can see over the unit in front.

The FAQ didnt "screw over" MR, it simply clarified MR in the only way they could without changing the order of the spell casting in the BRB. AS it stood, determining "effects" required breaking the rules; now it is only "targetted" it makes a lot more sense! This means "Winds of Undeath" can never trigger MR

Bac5665
11-02-2009, 14:24
I think the OP was asking if the vamp can cast OUT of combat. The answer is yes, keeping LOS and magic missile rules in mind. Meaning, you simply can't cast magic missiles, and you still need LoS while in combat, and, depending on the position of the units, the enemy unit may block the Vampire's LoS.

nosferatu1001
11-02-2009, 14:38
The OP was being queried by his oppponent, about casting a spell OUT of combat that also effected the unit IN combat with the vampire.

Regardless, the spell specifically allows affecting units in combat, and is not a magic missile so can be cast out of combat.

Nationalmaverick
11-02-2009, 14:51
That was merely an example, but I think I have the answer.

The contention by several of my opponents was that NO spells other then ones cast on the unit or wizard himself could be cast at all.

My impression was that this makes Vampire magic useless and indeed alot of the other lores useless after a few turns.

Braad
11-02-2009, 15:16
Wooops, read the OP's question wrong first time.

Yes, you can cast out of combat, there's no specific restriction saying that you can't. If someone says there is, let him/her show it to you. The rule I pointed out earlier only states that you cant cast at units that are themselves engaged.
However, you need to keep in mind that when your wizard is in combat, most of the times you do not have line of sight to anything other then the unit you are fighting (except maybe when flanked, clipped or when mounted on a large monster) and that you cannot cast on the unit attacking you unless the spell says you can cast into combat. Exception given here, is that you can cast on yourself, as long as it doesn't directly affect any other that is in CC (so you can transform into a bear, or get a flaming sword).

However, if I got all the info on this spell right, as someone says you don't need line of sight, you can cast it while at the moment you're busy battling something, and since an exception is given for units in combat, everything is a viable target.

Embalmed
11-02-2009, 15:22
It's a fairly common misconception that spells can't be cast out of combat, whereas they actually can unless they are MM. Most of the time you won't have LOS out of CC though, unless you are a Slann ;) so spells requiring LOS will generally be difficult to cast.