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Hrw-Amen
11-02-2009, 13:32
I don't want to get drawn into the 'Is Warhammer world and 40K world in the same universe' as that has been covered so many times and there appear to be reasons for thinking it is or isn;t depending on what fluff you want to use to back up your particular viewpoint.

But I was wondering with the current edition of White Dwarf where it clearly states that the Old ones were a multi planetary species, had anyone considered a Warhammer themed army based around a species that was alien to the Warhammer world?

Now I realise that would bring up all manner of problems and even a fairly small well equipped space faring force could probably wipe out a huge fantasy army from a great distance of not from orbit, but how about some thing that got caught up in the warp rift (Or whatever it is called in Warhammer.) and crash landed subsequently loosing most (If not all of the offensive.) weapons they may have had. They could still have APC's or skimmers, bikes etc transports whatever but only limited availability of weapons. Something that could be used like magic, as that is what it would no doubt appear to the primative inhabitants. They would have to rely on more conventional weapons for the rest of the time.

I know it probably would not be an overly popular idea or one used a lot, but other than the odd mention of 'nids I could find nothing in the search that implied this had been considered or discussed before. (Unless it is in the 40K forum of course?)

Lord Malorne
11-02-2009, 13:47
It wouldn't fit, it would be disliked.

Orcboy_Phil
11-02-2009, 14:06
If you want something like this either play Realms of Chaos or 40k. A friend once made a chariot from a Rhino it didn't feel right.

Bregalad
11-02-2009, 14:53
Fantasy games are even more about the right atmosphere than 40k games. Spoiling it with adding a Baneblade to your Empire forces will not be well received. On the other hand, the old ones are represented by the Slann in the Warhammer world, and the Lizardmen are their minions.

Griefbringer
11-02-2009, 14:58
According to WD100, also the pygmies of Lustria are primitive descendants of the crew of a crashed ancient spacecraft.

The SkaerKrow
11-02-2009, 15:13
I ran into similar opposition when I was planning a Night Goblin/Tyranid army last year. As far as I'm concerned, if the idea really appeals to you and you're willing to see it through, go with it. Just as long as you can obey the same dictates that relate to all Counts-As style armies, you're fine. This is just as much your game as it is your opponent's.

Braad
11-02-2009, 16:08
I gave one orc a huge machinegun, and thought about using it as a 10x multiple shot S4 armour piercing gun. Or something like that.
But it would be a one-time just for fun action. The model is mainly meant to learn some source lighting techniques on.

FeetOfClay
11-02-2009, 17:00
Although not a whole army, I'm very tempted to give a skink chief an eldar lasblaster, as a staff of the sun, I mean, its basically described as being tech rather than magic anyway, so...:D

darker4308
11-02-2009, 17:06
If you go back to 2nd edition 40k ... there were rules for bows and such in 40k. You could make a reasonable mission with primative enemy units under those rules.

Gazak Blacktoof
11-02-2009, 17:16
I don't think entire armies translate well from a 40K (or any space faring) race to a fantasy setting but I do like the idea of ancient artefacts actually being technological marvels from another world- GW have used this before and appear to sneak the odd one in occassionally. Somebody posted stats for a "sun staff" from the lizardmen book and it seemed to be very similar to the rules for the necron's "staff of light".

Captain Marius
11-02-2009, 17:31
There are a couple of areas where the presence of 40K races in the Fantasy setting could be interesting.

The crossover of the Warp and the Realm of Chaos is already the source for both settings' Daemon armies; what if a small force of Chaos Space Marines found their way through to the WFB world from the Eye of Terror? In the Liber Chaotica there is even a reference or two to this, my favourite being the Emperor's Children Legion acting as the 'Praetorians of Slaanesh'.

The Necron codex suggests a battle between the Necrons and the servants of the Old Ones, represented by Lizardmen, although I am less certain how this could be achieved in the actual WFB world.

Finally, I have always thought that a Genestealer infestation in the Empire would make for a brilliant Mordheim campaign!

Sir_Turalyon
11-02-2009, 17:33
Both Orcs and some of Lizardmen are off-worlders according to new Lizardmen book.

Cherrystone
11-02-2009, 17:58
Both Orcs and some of Lizardmen are off-worlders according to new Lizardmen book.

Orcs? So they are official spore now like their 40K equivalent. WFRP autors couldnt be drawn on this subject.

Dead Man Walking
11-02-2009, 18:02
I am of the mind that the fantasy world is a part of the 40k world, it may exist in its own pocket. It just hasnt been invaded/found yet. The entire galaxy could be scientifically advanced but that doesnt mean that one planet isnt in its version of the dark ages.

Sir_Turalyon
11-02-2009, 18:17
@ Dead Man Walking: Bear in mind that OP asked specificaly not to go into this topic. But yes, it has been actualy confirmed by GW in Realms of Chaos books (Warhammer World is cut by warp storms or just in the Eye of Terror). They moved away from using this idea, but didn't contradict it openly. Whenever you believe it is up to you.

Anyway, Orc(k)s seem to be as universal as Chaos gods now, being of the same nature wherever they appear.

RossS
11-02-2009, 18:28
Finally, I have always thought that a Genestealer infestation in the Empire would make for a brilliant Mordheim campaign!

I happen to think that this is one of the greatest ideas I have ever seen on these hallowed forums. Although, to be fair, I don't see Imperial state troopers faring too well against even a modestly-sized genestealer brood.

I am going to buy up some 'stealers and get this going, pronto! Thanks for the idea.

Chicago Slim
11-02-2009, 19:00
My Orc and Goblin army has a "Kult of Speed" theme (led by a Great Shaman, who has Vizzuns of da Future), with lots of chariots (mostly converted from Warbuggys and Wartrakks), a motorcycle/boar hybrid for the Ironback Boar, Boyz and gits alike wielding all sorts of tools (dollhouse garage stuff: wrenches, tire irons, spanners, etc), occasional tires or hunks of sheet metal as shields, and of course lots and lots of Arrer Boyz, carrying what look like future-tech light crossbows (I used Arrer Boyz bodies, so they have quivers, cut off the bows, replaced them with bolters and shootahs, to which I re-attached the bow pieces, sideways). I'm working now on a conversion to be a Wyvern (two Death Copters, attached to a ballon, for a very steam-punk airship, which will have "O.G.S. Wyvern" stenciled across the bow and stern...)

A couple of years ago, I saw an entry for a "team" event (two 1000-point armies playing on the same side) at a local tourney, using Lizardmen and Dogs of War-- the Dogs were all converted from Kroot, which I thought fit very nicely into the Lizardman flavor...


So, I think that some crossover can be fun and flavorful... but I don't see myself putting Tau onto square bases, and fielding them "Counts-as" an Empire gunline, or anything... :)

I could maybe see Chaos Marines being re-fitted as Warriors of Chaos, who'd been sucked through the Warp. Fitting the models into ranked-up formation would be difficult, and of course you'd have to go with no ranged weapons (easy enough to say that they ran out of ammo, quickly), but that might even lead to some fun conversions (a couple of guys holding bolters by the barrel-end?)

O&G'sRule
11-02-2009, 19:19
no it wouldn't make sense, 40k is the intergalactic game so it would seem pointless to me

Feefait
11-02-2009, 19:34
I've seen a space marine/ dark elf battle and it didn't go well for our side. the fantasy side that is. back in the day when i played 40k we also tried using genestealer sin fantasy, before there was a tyranid army. they were something like 40 pts a pop so it seemed like it would be okay. no ranks, few models, no magic, etc. but they just destroyed everything. if you could find rules, or write homebrew rules that would make sense and be fair, i am sure your gaming group wouldn't have a problem. done right i would have no problem playing it. but it would require a lot of testing and preparation. don't imperial guard have a "low tech" unit, and tau may too I think. Maybe they could be written up into an "alien" race.

kramplarv
11-02-2009, 20:03
I happen to think that this is one of the greatest ideas I have ever seen on these hallowed forums. Although, to be fair, I don't see Imperial state troopers faring too well against even a modestly-sized genestealer brood.



Of the Imperials will win :D they draw their faith and power from one of the lost patriarchs, Sigmar ;)

Volker the Mad Fiddler
11-02-2009, 20:07
I ran into similar opposition when I was planning a Night Goblin/Tyranid army last year. As far as I'm concerned, if the idea really appeals to you and you're willing to see it through, go with it. Just as long as you can obey the same dictates that relate to all Counts-As style armies, you're fine. This is just as much your game as it is your opponent's.

True, but you need to find an opponent in the first place, and this type of thing can really limit your available opponents unless it is done incredibly well- the Orc example a few posts ago seems like a promising example [but impossible to say without seeing the models].

Sir_Turalyon
11-02-2009, 21:04
Of the Imperials will win :D they draw their faith and power from one of the lost patriarchs, Sigmar ;)

Nah, Sigmar was Alpharius in disguise ;). He never said what world he grew on...

Condottiere
11-02-2009, 21:45
IIRC, Amazonians had the remnants of advanced weaponry.

WarmbloodedLizard
11-02-2009, 23:14
I think a thing that would be ok is something like a colony/slave ship that crashed in a secluded valley surrounded by mountains somewhere a coupla hundread years ago. so they

today, almost none of the technologies is working anymore, except maybe for some personal shield generators (Ward Saves + Magic Resistance), the metal of the ship is especially durable and is used for many kinds of things (weapons, armor). maybe they also built a very accurate stone trower (laser-pointer and strong springs, so they can shoot it straight like a cannon). as they don't know much about normal warfare on the warhammer world or any kind of warfare for that matter (as there probably weren't many soldiers on board), they don't have many rank & file troops (only learned it when they came into contact with the skaven and the dwarves, who broke through the mountains surrounding the valley.) so they're mostly skirmishers. They had to learn how to fight though, wen suddenly deamons started to appear arround their dwellings. They adapted to this by making up crude tactics. for example, as they can be quite fast at times, they surround the enemy troops they are attacking (first bring as many models into contact with enemy unit, then, if there are any more models, fill up one flank, then the other, and finally the rear) or, after learning about ranks & files, figured out how to quickly change from a ranked formation into a skirmisher lineup (using half their movement). As they were used to having machines on their old homeplanet/ship, they built many different apparatus to make their lives easier (made from stone, wood, and scraps). They always bring a generator for their shields to the battlefield, the generator(s) (upgradeable) also give(s) them the energy needed to stop magic (dispel dice) and use their rare devices (magic). (If the generator(s) is(are) destroyed, all units that had shield generators lose their wardsave and MR) Equipment that uses energy from the generators doesn't work when it's too far away (12-18") from them.
as lords and heroes there may be some of the guys that survived the crash, held alive by some alien technology, they wouldn't be strong in combat or magic, but have other abilites. maybe castes formed over time, and the descendants of the soldiers on board are now the leaders in war and adept fighters. and of course some of the guys reacted strangely to the magical surroundings of the world and mutated (riiiight... :D).
also they may have befriended skaven or dwarves and may take certain units of their army books as core/special/rare choices (more expensive of course, as they also have to pay them).
their shooting abilities are quite limited, as they lack the knowledge of bows or similar, so all they have are their devices and special equipment(e.g. lightning staffs (low range. low energy consumption, so not overwhelmingly strong, but maybe special ability like stun on a 4+ if in close combat(unit can't attack back if hit first (have medium initiative)) that are powered by the genereators), some stone slingshots or throwing weapons.
high tech weapons would be reserved for special characters, normal magic items would mostly be stuff they built from the scraps after the crash and gifts from other races.

overall, they would be more of a peaceful race that doesn't like war much, but has to defend itself and also find a new place to live (=negotiate or fight the ones that originally lived there), as there are now just too many demons appearing there.


they look something like the aliens from "The Arrival" with maybe some traits from "Alien", insects and humans. not really tough, fast on the charge (Zealots from Starcraft 2, maybe? :D) but otherwise normal speed.

well, something like that. (i really know how to waste my time^^)

grissom2006
11-02-2009, 23:31
none of the known races in warhammer would stand a chance if there was such a thing

SimonL
12-02-2009, 00:13
I always thought Black Templars would make an interesting Fantasy army, given their distaste for ranged combat. Crashed Battle Barge, limited ammunition so ranged weapons are only very sparsely used...

Col. Tartleton
12-02-2009, 01:24
Nurglitch has a Jokaero death ring that he found in a slann temple according to one of the skaven source books IIRC.

So I say overall to the idea: maybe

Condottiere
12-02-2009, 01:44
The only way to win against an Alien incursion would be through asymmetrical warfare.

captainramoz
12-02-2009, 01:53
they kinda have flying skimmers(the slann throne).

havoc626
12-02-2009, 04:55
According to WD100, also the pygmies of Lustria are primitive descendants of the crew of a crashed ancient spacecraft.

Looks like squats didn't die out after all.

Chicago Slim
12-02-2009, 06:51
The only way to win against an Alien incursion would be through asymmetrical warfare.

Wood Elves FTW!

Devil Tree
12-02-2009, 08:07
While mixing Fantasy elements into Science Fiction setting can be fun, it doesn’t work as well in reverse. Putting Science Fiction in a Fantasy setting is like dressing up as a Trekkie and going to a Renaissance Fair. :wtf: Some things are just in really poor taste.

Bregalad
12-02-2009, 09:45
Compromise:
You field Aliens, my medieval peasants get 5 orbital strikes before start ;)

Condottiere
12-02-2009, 21:48
No, it turns out that the Aliens are highly susceptible to the germs that the medieval peasants are unaffected by. Once infected you lose a wound every turn unles you roll a six.

Orcboy_Phil
12-02-2009, 22:16
While mixing Fantasy elements into Science Fiction setting can be fun, it doesn’t work as well in reverse. Putting Science Fiction in a Fantasy setting is like dressing up as a Trekkie and going to a Renaissance Fair. :wtf: Some things are just in really poor taste.

This I'm going to have to disagree with you on. Have you ever seen Escaflowne? Mecha in a fantasy setting for the win.

Devil Tree
12-02-2009, 23:13
It can successfully be done sometimes, but the end result is usually disastrous. The exception does not main the rule.

Rolo Ramone
13-02-2009, 15:52
I really want to see an insectoid race in Warhammer fantasy. And I thing that tyranid can do it pretty well.