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Lord of Nonsensical Crap
11-02-2009, 16:10
After so many agonizing days of waiting, I have finally gotten the new Lizardmen rulebook. While I have a few mixed feelings on the book itself (to be elaborated on soon enough in my batrep blog), many of the new units and combos have left me giddy with excitement. Naturally, I constructed a new army list at the first opportunity.


LoNC's Lizards, v2:



Ara-kor, Scar-Leader of Ux-Mal (Scar-Veteran)- Burning Blade of Chotec, heavy armour, Enchanted Shield- 120

A nice, cheap leader who is still pretty decent in combat. Goes with one of the Saurus units.


Tezla-Kar (Scar-Veteran)- BSB, great weapon, Hide of the Cold Ones, shield- 163

I wanted to try out the Cold One armour on my BSB. Not only will it give him increased protection, but the fact that he causes Fear may actually keep a few enemies from charging him or his unit. Joins one of the Saurus units)


Tlacepotl the Wise (Skink Priest)- Engine of the Gods, level 2, Plaque of Tepok- 405

Obviously, I couldn't resist the Engine of the Gods. It, combined with the Plaque of Tepok, effectively boosts my Skink Priest to a level 3 wizard. The Terror, impact hits, added protection and special Engine abilities aren't too bad either. I will either attach the Engine to a Saurus unit if necessary, or keep it close to my battle line to provide magic hits or ward saves


Huinichotl the Acolyte (Skink Priest)- level 1, 2 dispel scrolls- 105

Basic scroll caddy, needs no explanation.


17 Saurus Warriors- full command, spears- 216
17 Saurus Warriors- full command, spears- 216

In my standard 2000 pt lists, my army has always revolved around a strong centre of two 15-strong Saurus blocks. I decided to keep that tradition, though I've also boosted them with spears to make them that much nastier in close combat.


10 Skinks- javelins- 50
10 Skinks- javelins- 50

I decided to try out the ranked Skinks. They will pretty much fulfill the same role that my old Skinks always did (bait and fleeing, harassment, distraction, etc). The added bonus, though, is that they can now divert charges away by holding, or charge into existing combats to provide a flank bonus.


10 Skink Skirmishers- blowpipes- 60
10 Skink Skirmishers- blowpipes- 60

Good old Skink Skirmishers, there for the usual job of harassment, march-blocking, diversion, and gunning stuff down with blowpipes.


3 Terradons- 90
3 Terradons- 90

I am in love with Terradons after the changes that have been made to their rules. These guys will go after enemy support units and artillery, or stay hidden and grab table quarters on the final turn. Either way, I eagerly anticipate dropping rocks on stuff.


Stegadon- 235

[I]A simple junior Stegadon, there because (1) its cheaper than the Ancient Steg, (2) Stegadons are fun, and (3) TWO Stegadons are even more fun.


1 Salamander/Razordon Hunting Pack- 75
1 Salamander/Razordon Hunting Pack- 75

I'm unsure as to whether or not I'll take two Salamanders, two Razordons, or one of each. Either way, I'm interested in seeing how two singular packs of these guys will work out for me.


Total: 1997


Tactics: I'm unsure how the list will play so far, but the basic idea is that the Saurus hold the centre, supported by ranked Skinks and flanked by Stegadons. Skirmishers and Sallies/Razors will provide fire support/harassment, and Terradons will take care of the enemy's light units and artillery. If at all possible, I'll try to get the Engine into zapping range of as many units as possible.

Any thoughts on this list?

blackjack
11-02-2009, 18:50
Ara-kor, Scar-Leader of Ux-Mal (Scar-Veteran)- Burning Blade of Chotec, heavy armour, Enchanted Shield- 120

Apart from the Cold one Armor no Lizardman can have heavy armor, it's light armor or none.




Tezla-Kar (Scar-Veteran)- BSB, great weapon, Hide of the Cold Ones, shield- 163

Even on a cold 8 idiot checks will trip him and his unit up.


Tlacepotl the Wise (Skink Priest)- Engine of the Gods, level 2, Plaque of Tepok- 405

This will become a classic build for an EOTG, keep it out of CC or the priest will get poped.




Huinichotl the Acolyte (Skink Priest)- level 1, 2 dispel scrolls- 105

For an anti magic Skink I absolutly recomend the Diadem of power over one of the scrolls, for the same cost as a scroll you get +1 or +2 dd every turn.



17 Saurus Warriors- full command, spears- 216
17 Saurus Warriors- full command, spears- 216

Your costs are way off here, should come to 234 for each unit.



10 Skinks- javelins- 50
10 Skinks- javelins- 50

good



10 Skink Skirmishers- blowpipes- 60
10 Skink Skirmishers- blowpipes- 60

Costs are off here too, 70pts for each unit.



3 Terradons- 90
3 Terradons- 90

New terradons hit like kittens.


Stegadon- 235

Not worth the points IMO


1 Salamander/Razordon Hunting Pack- 75
1 Salamander/Razordon Hunting Pack- 75

I am slowly warming to the new Slamanders (pun intended).



Total: 1997

You need to rework your points cost. The real cost of your amy is somthing like 2060 or so.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
11-02-2009, 21:44
You're quite right, of course. Here's a revised list, taking into account the points errors I made, and dropping the Cold One Hide:


Ara-kor, Scar-Leader of Ux-Mal (Scar-Veteran)- Burning Blade of Chotec, light armour, Enchanted Shield, Bane Head- 135
Tezla-Kar (Scar-Veteran)- BSB, great weapon, light armour, shield, Venom of the Firefly Frog- 134
Tlacepotl the Wise (Skink Priest)- Engine of the Gods, level 2, Plaque of Tepok, Curse-Charm of Tepok- 425
17 Saurus Warriors- full command, spears- 232
17 Saurus Warriors- full command, spears- 232
16 Skinks + 2 Kroxigor- 190
10 Skink Skirmishers- blowpipes- 70
10 Skink Skirmishers- blowpipes- 70
4 Terradons- 120
Stegadon- 235
1 Salamander/Razordon Hunting Pack- 75
1 Salamander/Razordon Hunting Pack- 75

Total: 1993

Your thoughts?




Stegadon- 235
Not worth the points IMO

Why, might I ask?

Nicha11
11-02-2009, 21:58
Good list LoNC i look forward to seeing it played by a player as experienced as you.

blackjack
11-02-2009, 22:20
Stegadon- 235
Not worth the points IMO
Why, might I ask?

Because Stegies are only worth thier points on the charge, with M6 enemy cav will charge them first even light cav can target skinks and have a decent change to hold CR. The bow is near usless for the points cost.

g0ddy
12-02-2009, 18:02
Huh?
Why exactly do you propose enemy cav charges your T6 Stubborn US10 Terror Causing Monster?

~ zilla

Dead Man Walking
12-02-2009, 18:54
They are good defensively too, so long as you have a bsb in the area to pull down that stubborn test and pound the enemy in the flank with a counter charge. I always used last edition steggies to hold the middle up while kroxi's did the flank charges. Its risky but if your smart enough you will set it up so even if the unit makes the stegadon run from a bad roll you still get a flank charge off. (Hint hint, put another tough unit right behind the stegadon but not in its retreat path.)

Malorian
12-02-2009, 19:01
Huh?
Why exactly do you propose enemy cav charges your T6 Stubborn US10 Terror Causing Monster?

~ zilla

They will target the skinks and most likely win combat.

Once the steg is tied down then an infantry block can move in to really tarpit it.

Dokushin
12-02-2009, 19:20
They will target the skinks and most likely win combat.

Once the steg is tied down then an infantry block can move in to really tarpit it.

That was very much the case in 6th. But now that the Stegs are everywhere as Specials and Rares and EotGs and mounts and whatnot, I think that the situation may be different.

See, they're not going to just steamroll the Steggie. They can tarpit it, but they're tarpitting themselves, and all it takes is one more steg nearby to get a charge off and you've got impact hits and flank/rear going for you, in addition to US 20 worth of terror causers. Two Stegs on the field is scary.

Dead Man Walking
12-02-2009, 22:23
If you cant turn a stegadon into a defensive unit when you need to then you might as well throw your dice away and go play something else.

g0ddy
12-02-2009, 22:56
They will target the skinks and most likely win combat.

Once the steg is tied down then an infantry block can move in to really tarpit it.

I guess... if were uhhh talking about a large block of cav.. or chaos knights here...

I still think thats pretty impractical...

~ zilla

ScalySkin
13-02-2009, 00:52
Are you planning to put your great weapon your BSB is carrying away to use you shield with the hand weapon? If not, then you should drop the shield. I think the cold one armor is a great way to add fear to the saurus unit, for 50 pts you get heavy armor and T6, let just hope the 9% chance of failing the stupidity test doesn't happen too often.
The only problem I see with this list is that could could be in trouble if you face a magic intensive army, particularly if they happen to have shadow magic and roll the pit of shades spell.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
13-02-2009, 01:35
Are you planning to put your great weapon your BSB is carrying away to use you shield with the hand weapon? If not, then you should drop the shield. I think the cold one armor is a great way to add fear to the saurus unit, for 50 pts you get heavy armor and T6, let just hope the 9% chance of failing the stupidity test doesn't happen too often.
The only problem I see with this list is that could could be in trouble if you face a magic intensive army, particularly if they happen to have shadow magic and roll the pit of shades spell.

I will be using the hw & shield only when facing s5+ opponents. Agree, the Cold One Armour is pretty nice, though I could get pretty much the same effect by giving the BSB a Cold One at a slightly cheaper price.

Agree with you on magic defence: this army won't hold up against a dedicated magical onslaught. Sadly, there's not much I can do about that with the loss of Spawnings of Tepok. If I know I'm up against a magic-heavy army like VCs, then I just may ditch something to invest in a scroll caddy.

On the topic of enemy cav charging my Stegadon...the only time that would actually worry me would be if said cav were Chaos or Blood Knights (and I would be doing my best to divert the former away with Skinks). Even against Chaos Knights, my Steg still stands a very good chance of holding and allowing one of my other units to counter-charge.

Thoughtless
16-02-2009, 17:35
Seems like a pretty solid list. The eotG will be a nice centerpiece.

A couple of thoughts and questions.

1. Why did you choose to use a scar vet as your general? I thought the possibilities for developing a devastating old blood are quite tempting.

2. I would try to keep the saurus cav in as they seem to have become even more powerful with the new armour bonus.

3. Are chameleon skinks not worth the points? It seems to me that a unit of them could really help you out as you try to get your battle line across the field in tact.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
17-02-2009, 18:46
Seems like a pretty solid list. The eotG will be a nice centerpiece.

A couple of thoughts and questions.

1. Why did you choose to use a scar vet as your general? I thought the possibilities for developing a devastating old blood are quite tempting.

2. I would try to keep the saurus cav in as they seem to have become even more powerful with the new armour bonus.

3. Are chameleon skinks not worth the points? It seems to me that a unit of them could really help you out as you try to get your battle line across the field in tact.


1. The Oldblood is still a very good character, don't get me wrong. It's just that, with the nerfing of the Jaguar Charm, I cant rely on sending my Oldblood zooming out to go kill stuff. Unless I take a Carnosaur, an Oldblood will be footslogging with the rest of my forces. My reasoning is, an Oldblood on foot is easier for the enemy to avoid, so I might as well save points by using a Scar-Veteran instead.

2. Agreed, Saurus Cavalry are better now, and I just might get around to using some eventually.

3. I'm iffy about Chameleon Skinks. They pretty much fufill the same role that my old Scout Skinks filled in the old book, but at a higher cost. Personally, I would just rather save my special slots for Terradons, Stegadons, etc.

And while we're on the topic:


New terradons hit like kittens.

Whoever said I got them for their close combat effectiveness? I took the new Terradons for their rock-dropping ability. The way I see it, multiple Terradons can fly all over the board, bomb the crap out of small units, hide in woods to avoid retribution, and pretty much make a nuisance of themselves. Their status as flying cavalry also means they can claim table quarters, which is awesome.

N810
17-02-2009, 19:02
Even on a cold 8 idiot checks will trip him and his unit up.

Somebody made a mathhammer chart for passing coldblooded ld test (stupidity)
at LD8 I believe on average you fail the test once every other 12 rounds of play.
Or every other game.

So not something you realy have to worry about.