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No-One
12-02-2009, 11:30
to have an army of allies? like say for instance an army of orcs and goblins, with maybe a tyrant and a unit or two of bulls, working as allies? i'm wanting to use a rediculously large orc as my boss and i think the only thing that would cover the rules for him would be a OK tyrant or butcher, but i dont know if this would be allowed?

Master Incarias
12-02-2009, 11:43
There are no commonly used rules for allies in the WHFB rules. Certain units can be used in other armies (Kislev, Dogs of War and some Ogres) but these are generally taken either as add-ons to the mandatory choices, or as Rare units.

If you want to run a Tyrant as a Warboss, this would require your opponent's permission, which might be more or less difficult to get depending on the venue. Against an open-minded regular opponent, it might fly, whereas in a Tourament setting itwould be a big no-no.

Hope that helps.

No-One
12-02-2009, 11:55
these are mainly gonna be local games, i dont see me getting to big with it anytime soon, mainly local games and local tourneys, and they usually are pretty lenient. i'll ask around our gaming group and see what they think about it and if it'll be cool with them, btw, can anyone tell me how good butchers/slaughtermasters are in relation to other mages/shamans from other armies? i want my warboss to be a shaman of sorts so thats why i'm asking

Braad
12-02-2009, 11:58
Indeed, opponents permission. And since you need that already, I think you could just as well houserule a special lord for yourself. I think I would have less troubles with a balanced single home-made lord, than several units and a lord instead.

Not that I often have troubles with anything btw...

But you probably can't show up with any of these options at a tournament.

Do note, that GW gave us the rules for legendary battles, I think it was. In a white dwarf, where you could ally with other armies, field a battery of cannons or other specials for a single slot, and that kind of stuff in games above 5000 points. These rules however are not 'legal', however they do promote (as GW often does) to do what you think is most fun for you home games.

Nuada
12-02-2009, 12:19
If you do use legendary battle rules, you have to be aware of rules that affect all friendly units. For example the Waaagh! spell says all friendly units move 2d6", strike first, and can reroll hits in CC.

Now imagine that spell if you're allied with WoC and they have lots of Chaos Knights. So you might need a rule that says "friendly units means only your army"

They are great battles though :)

No-One
12-02-2009, 12:34
i doubt i'm gonna go so far as make a SC, though if you guys want to for me i'm fair game! hahaha but i just got done posting in our gaming groups boards and asked if they'd allow me using a butcher or tyrant as my warboss, and i'll have to wait for their reply

No-One
12-02-2009, 17:53
anyone wanna take a crack at making the special character?

Braad
12-02-2009, 21:27
Simple: take and orc warboss, and a model ogre-sized
+1/2 wounds, +1/2 attacks, +1 toughness. Something like that? Add magic level 2, so that he is a shaman now. Give him either a few items (max 100 points) or think up a few for yourself.
Points excluding equipment: 280.

Why? Dunno, but is sounds reasonable. If you do things like this, its better to overprice, then underprice.
Also, its better to give him a standard equipment set, that doesn't overpower him or something. You wan't a fun character, but if you give this one armour of gork, he might get a bit too tough with T7.

In the end, its all up to your own fantasy.

What I do when thinking of a new model myself, I start with something that exists. Then I see what I want to add/change. If for example, I want a magic level, I look in the book and see that a shaman of level 2 = 100 points. Since you already pay a lot, say 80 for magic level 2. If you want to add +2 toughness, armour of gork = 50. Like that... use the things you have, and don't overdo it. And rather a bit more expensive than too cheap, as that will make sure you will still have friends afterwards.

No-One
15-02-2009, 03:14
Ok so Braad made me a character and sent it to me to see what i think, personally i love it, looks good to me, but i figured i'd run it past you guys and see what you think... so here he is (all of the following is a cut and paste of Braad's Email to me)



Orc Warboss …

He may be chosen in an Orcs and Goblins army for 1 lord choice. Opponents consent is needed to field this character.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Warboss 4 6 3 5 6 4 4 5 9




Points: 340


Wargear
Choppa, Shield


Magic items
Da Choppa of Majick Ouch
This huge cleaver has seen many bloody battles before and glows with a sinister blue magic.
Choppa. The weapon contains a bound spell which can only be unleashed when the character is in close combat, and affects only the character himself. It has a power level of 7, and causes the choppa to ignite in magic blue flames. He now gets flaming attacks which also ignore all ward saves during the next close combat phase, and may re-roll failed rolls to wound.

Arma of Da Waaaghmasta
Light Armour. Grants the wearer a 5+ ward save.


Unit Strength: 3


Base Size: 40x40mm


Special Rules
He is such a large and ferocious monster, that he causes Fear.

Mork’s favourite: As one of Mork’s (but not Gork’s) favorites, he is imbued with magic power. He counts as a level 1 orc shaman.

Not Gork’s favourite: Since the Orcish gods have their own animosity problems, one picks on the others favourites. At the same time as animosity rolls are made, roll a D6 for this character. On the roll of a 1, he may not use his magic powers this turn and generates no power and dispel dice until his next roll (though he can still use the bound spell in his magic choppa).


Options
He may upgraded to a level 2 shaman for +40 points.






Explanation on point costs and other things:

Remember that every unit/character always carries a hand weapon, so I included a normal choppa, in case his magic weapon get destroyed.

Note that I have also given the rule ‘choppa’ to the magic weapon. This means it adds +1S in the first round of combat, and gives the extra +1 Armour Save bonus in combination with the shield when engaged in close combat with an enemy to its front.

As I have also given the rule ‘light armor’ to his magic armour, he gainst a +1 AS bonus. Combined with the shield and his magic choppa, he has a 5+ AS against most things, and a 4+ in Close Combat.

His saves are not huge, but remember he has many wounds, high toughness, and as all orcs is mainly oriented towards offensive capabilities.

Point costs
Basic 120 for an orc warboss
+45 for +1 Toughness (point value based on the armour of gork, minus a bit for the light armour included in the item)
+40 for +1 wound (based on the armour of protectyness from the 6th edition book, but less expensive since the item also gave heavy armour, and most items where considered to expensive back than)
+15 for +1 Attack (based on sword of might)
+4 for a shield (as he is better then a normal warboss, I made this a point more expensive)
+35 for magic level 1, another +35 for level 2 (upgrades for magic levels usually cost 35, and since you already pay a lot for the model, this should be enough)
-20 for the penalty given by Gork
+25 superhero penalty, for the reason given below.
+10 for fear (dunno why, sounded nice, and doesn’t have a huge impact on a single US3 model, except that he is immune to fear himself, so not too expensive)
+36 for his magic armour (based on warboss umm’s best boss ‘at + light armour.
+35 for his magic axe (I completely made this one up…)
Total: 380 (including his level 2 upgrade)

Lord Dan
15-02-2009, 04:55
Warboss No-One- 385 points

M6
WS5
BS3
S5
T5
I3
A5
W5
LD9


Special Rules

Weerd- No-One is a Lv. 2 wizard.
Da Biggest- No One is probably the largest Orc ever to have lived, and is both an imposing and terrifying figure to behold. No-One causes fear.
Tuff- As the thickness of an Orc's hide is directly proportional to their height, it is natural then that an Orc as tall as No-One has supernaturally thick skin. His skin provides a 5+ "scaly skin" save (note that he may still cast spells, even though this is technically an armor save). In addition, against attacks of S4 or less No-One has the regeneration special rule.

The Choppa of 1,000 Truths- No One's WS always counts as being 1 higher than his opponent's. In addition, any attacks directed at No-One will always count as being one lower than his own, unless they would normally be less than this.

Bauble of Balance- Enemy units within 6" of No-one taking a leadership-based check of any kind must roll 3D6 and choose the highest. Friendly units within 6" of No-One taking a leadership-based check of any kind must roll 3D6 and choose the two lowest.

Flask of Liquid Confidence- At the beginning of any turn (yours or your opponent's) you may declare that No-One will eat the flask (and thus "drink" its contents). From that moment on he will have a 4+ ward save. The following turn this save is reduced to a 5+, then a 6+, and then nothing.

nosferatu1001
15-02-2009, 10:19
Quick note - magic weapons do not give you the parry bonus, so only ever a 5+ AS

Ignoring all ward saves and wounding automatically is a bit harsh though!

Braad
15-02-2009, 11:08
Quicker note: magic weapons don't give you the parry bonus as in most cases they do not count as a hand weapon, and therefore do not get the bonusses going with that. However, I specifically put in the rule 'choppa', meaning it is a hand weapon under O&G rule, which therefore does allow the parry bonus.
This in fact is the same thing as with Porko's pigstikka, which has the rule 'spear' given in its description, meaning it also grants +1S on the charge while mounted.
GW is doing this themselves more and more often, and I believe there is even one official magic weapon that counts as a hand weapon and therefore confers the normal bonusses (I believe in the DE list...).

BTW, the first sentence in the weapon's rule should be like this, as it is 'storyline'.

On the magic weapons account, do note that it is a bound spell, and therefor can be dispelled. I made the effect a bit more terrifying, as it can be quite easily dispelled. A 'all or nothing' kind of thing. Though maybe it could be changed to 're-roll failed to wound' or something like that... I had a bit of a lack of inspiration on that bit.

nosferatu1001
15-02-2009, 14:09
Gah, I missed that bit! There is a DE item which states similar, even stating you can use it with a second HW to get the extra attacks.

Reroll wounds is a usual effect for this level :)

Braad
15-02-2009, 14:14
@ No-one
I think we got a nice one here, with gratitude to nosferatu. I would suggest changing the ruling on the weapon to this for now:
Choppa. The weapon contains a bound spell which can only be unleashed when the character is in close combat, and affects only the character himself. It has a power level of 7, and causes the choppa to ignite in magic blue flames. He now gets flaming attacks which also ignore all ward saves during the next close combat phase, and may re-roll failed rolls to wound.

I raised the power level a tad bit, so that it cannot be dispelled on a single dice, to mitigate a bit for the reduced strenght while not reducing the cost.

What do you think?

No-One
15-02-2009, 14:26
sounds good to me, overall i think the character is amazing, and i'm currently gathering up the bits needed to convert him at the moment. i'll start posting pics of him hopefully in the next week or two... i changed it up in the post where the character is

nosferatu1001
15-02-2009, 14:43
He sounds good - a burning blade would definitely have a better chance of wounding you, but not necessarily automatically.

It's also the highest level bound item in the game :D [note, TK dont cast items ;)]

Braad
15-02-2009, 16:20
Well, something has to be, right? Also, since this bound spell is quite important for the close combat capabilities of the character, I thought it would be suitable. Other characters automatically get those abilities from their weapons. But I thought this would set him apart a bit.

nosferatu1001
15-02-2009, 18:20
It certainly makes it an interesting character. A scroll at the wrong moment would be a b**ger ;)

No-One
15-02-2009, 19:04
thats why i'm taking a couple shamans to go along with my force, most enemies are automatically gonna throw scrolls at their spells(hopefully) and ignore Warboss bid bad(i need a good name for him)