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View Full Version : I'm making my own set of rules, need some input



Urgat
12-02-2009, 20:23
Nothing related to Warhammer, it's my own universe, etc... It's on the same "scale" as Warhammer though, as you lead rather large armies, but each mini plays a role.
That being said, various reasons have led me to decide on a smaller scale (scale as in heroic 28mm for warhammer).
Now my question is: how small is too small? I'm going for something around 20mm (for the average human), in fact, but I wanted an exterior advice. What scale is warmaster, for instance? How small do you think a mini can be while still being interesting to paint and remain nice to look at from "(not too) far away"?
I'm asking for opinions, for once, some reasoning is of course very much welcome, but, actually, something like "I just like **mm better" is also welcome :)

Dokushin
12-02-2009, 21:26
I like the Warhammer scale, 20mm = 1 human makes for a good sized battle. Any smaller than that and you'd start feeling like you were pushing moss colonies around, and those casualties would seem to matter less and less. Any larger and you wouldn't be able to do nice-sized battles, not to mention dragons would need support structures.

So yeah, for what it's worth I think 20mm is pretty much ideal.

Mireadur
12-02-2009, 23:00
15mm minis are quite decent.

Here you have some examples. Dont mind the language.

http://www.e-minis.net/index.php?cPath=736_294

Stuffburger
13-02-2009, 00:38
If i were more a wargamer and less a painter I'd play strictly 15mm stuff, like warmaster. Good scale for more epic battles.

sroblin
13-02-2009, 02:46
Flames of war is a good example of a 15mm game that works on a slightly larger scale (armies of 150-400 men usually), and seems to be picking up steam.

Personally, I like to think of warhammer miniatures is usually representing at least 10 men instead of 1; otherwise, these 'epic battles' would be representing relatively small skirmishes in both distance and numbers. That makes army of 100 figures (my elven armies often average around 90) a more reasonable '1,000' men, which is still a fairly modest number for a full battle during the middle ages or antiquity.

ChaosVC
13-02-2009, 03:29
If i were more a wargamer and less a painter I'd play strictly 15mm stuff, like warmaster. Good scale for more epic battles.

He said it best.

The Samaritan
13-02-2009, 04:47
This is a warhammer fantasy discussion?? lol. uhh... anyway i wouldnt know anything bout it :D

snyggejygge
13-02-2009, 07:38
I think 15mm is the best scale if you want to design it purely for gaming.

Urgat
13-02-2009, 07:54
This is a warhammer fantasy discussion?? lol. uhh... anyway i wouldnt know anything bout it :D
It's fantasy, (we're in the general fantasy discussion forum), and I want opinions from people who play Warhammer fantasy battle, obviously :p

Thanks to the others :)
15mm sounds more appealing to gamers, but the "if I was more a gamer than a painter" comment goes with what I'm thinking: 15mm minis are not interesting to paint... I could use some more feedback.

I'm gonna check your link later, Mireadur :)

IJW
13-02-2009, 09:02
15mm fantasy figures are fairly easily available (and historicals even more so), and in some cases are very good.

20mm fantasy figures are almost non-existent in comparison.

Warmaster is 10mm. and has prompted a few other manufacturers to produce more figures in that scale.

Silly question time - is there a reason why is this in the Warhammer forum instead of the rules development forum with the other threads about home-grown rules systems?

Coram_Boy
13-02-2009, 09:11
We aren't discussing rules at the moment per se. just model sizes, so there doesn't seem to be a need for removal IMO. still, i'm not a moderator, am I? :p

Ward.
13-02-2009, 09:48
I personally prefer 28mm because it's easier for me to hold when I'm speed painting and they line up pretty well with most pre-made forests.

What sort of game are you looking at though, if it's a primarily skirmish set up I'd go for 20mm (which seems to be what you're getting at) if it's huge blocks of ranked troops then 10-15 sounds like a better deal.

Urgat
13-02-2009, 10:34
Silly question time - is there a reason why is this in the Warhammer forum instead of the rules development forum with the other threads about home-grown rules systems?
Yup: I'm not discussing rules, as Coram_Boy pointed out.
I'm going for big blocks, Ward, larges units, large monsters, etc. Not that there won't be any room for tiny things, that being said.

Mireadur
13-02-2009, 13:13
I'd love to play a system similar to WH but focusing more on blocks of troops and strategy over heroes (warmaster ruleset didnt satisfy me, i must say). Basically im talking about WH historical battles yes.

Unfortunately theres noone around here interested in such a thing.

Griefbringer
13-02-2009, 13:28
Presuming that you are going to stick to existing model lines, you are more or less restricted to 28mm or 15mm sizes for the models.

28mm you already refused. This is my favourite size as it allows for sufficient room for detail for those like to go to town with painting.

20mm fantasy is pretty rare (though there are a number of recent 1/72 sets from http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/ShowFeature.aspx?id=39), though there is plenty of historicals available for it. Well-made miniatures can have plenty of detail, but it is getting smaller.

15mm fantasy is decently available and seems to be pretty popular in the US, less so in Europe. I am not personally very fond of this size, as the amount of detail available starts to get pretty limited.

10mm fantasy is pretty rare (besides Warmaster, there is a Tolkien-inspired range from Copplestone), though there is an amount of historicals available. There is a bit of room for detail in this, but not a whole lot. I have played a number of games with models of this size, and they can look pretty decent from a distance when well done - but I could not really make myself to paint them.

6mm fantasy I have never heard of, but there is a number of historical and scifi sets. Popular amongst those people who want to have plenty of vehicles on the table, but the infantry tends to be a bit lacking in detail - though the enthusiasts of this size say that the mass effect compensates for it.

In the end, a set of rules can be easily written to work with models of any size with some thought - especially since the model scale and ground scale do not match all that often.

Urgat
13-02-2009, 14:12
Actually, I'm not necessarily sticking to existing models (and I haven't refused 28mm either, it's just I don't think it'll be practical). Yeah, I got that stupid idea of trying to sculpt some minis, some day.
Thing is, size is a problem there, because I'm using an hexagonal system (yeah I know, it's probably not very popular on warseer, but it will save a huge deal of hassle and arguments), and an hexagon can hold various numbers of minis depending on the size (say, if it were warhammer, you could fit one knight or one ogre, or two orcs, or three spearmen in one hexagon). So size is indeed pretty important for me, as I have to decide once and for all on the size of said hexagons.
And that's why I'm asking people what size they prefer.

IJW
13-02-2009, 14:13
Yup: I'm not discussing rules, as Coram_Boy pointed out.
Fair enough, I misunderstood the emphasis of the initial post. ;)

Have you tried Armies of Arcana as a rules system? Sounds pretty close to what you're talking about and saves you trying to write one from scratch.

Urgat
13-02-2009, 14:18
I'm writting one to test myself, in fact. I don't have big plans for it or anything, just want something that works when I want to play large battles, but w/o too much hassle. Something probably less accurate than Warhammer, but much more straightforward.
Anyway, the core rules are pretty much done and I'm rather happy with them (including moving, shotting, fighting, and magic! weeeeh!). It's the armylist making that is more of a challenge now :)