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View Full Version : What Makes a Competitive Ork List?



Simkin78
14-02-2009, 16:55
I've read several opinions on what makes an Ork list competitive in tournaments but the opinions have varied pretty drastically as far as the unit composition. So, what do you all think are the most important combination of elements are in order to make a successful tournament list? Keep in mind I'm not asking for a list of units so much as the composition. Is it having a balance to make you stompy and shooty enough to be killy no matter what? Is it just BOYZ, BOYZ, BOYZ? What do you look for in a list that's going to be able to give better than it gets?
Thanks in advance.

Mannimarco
14-02-2009, 17:03
lets see.....competitve ork army......

biker nobz! these things are great and always serve me well when given a waaagh banner and painboy, theyre tough, very fast and pretty hard to get rid of, add a few power klaws for tank hunting

all depends on how you want your army to play, ive seen green horde armies to very well in capturing objectives but its a lot of kill points, a really common army that i see is the wazdakka kult of speed, its wazdakka, some biker nobz, maybe a couple of 12 man squads in trukks and at least 3 squads of bikers

Simkin78
14-02-2009, 17:20
lets see.....competitve ork army......

biker nobz! these things are great and always serve me well when given a waaagh banner and painboy, theyre tough, very fast and pretty hard to get rid of, add a few power klaws for tank hunting

all depends on how you want your army to play, ive seen green horde armies to very well in capturing objectives but its a lot of kill points, a really common army that i see is the wazdakka kult of speed, its wazdakka, some biker nobz, maybe a couple of 12 man squads in trukks and at least 3 squads of bikers

I've always been interested in the Kult of Speed armies since they seem to have survivability, solid shooty and when properly kitted they can krump stuff up with the best Orks have to offer. My only issue is low model count which takes away a great Orky asset, attrition.

Killmaimburn
14-02-2009, 17:22
I'm not asking for a list of units [...]What do you look for in a list that's going to be able to give better than it gets?
40 pages of ork tactics and list build advice is really usefull..try this one (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60933) Apply twice, rinse thoroughly then waaaaggh your pants off:D

Snotteef
14-02-2009, 17:24
Pretty much any Nobs configuration where each model is armed differently is competitive. They're very killy and the silly wound allocation system makes them dead 'ard as well. As was said, the bike variety is best. Don't forget your Painboy, he makes the squad.

Of course if you want fun, fluffy Orks (like I do), you'll skip the crazy, rules-tastic nobs and just get lots of boyz!!!

MrGiggles
14-02-2009, 17:25
Biker Nobz are pretty brutally effective, if for no other reason than there's not much which can effectively deal with a 500 plus point unit in a 1500 point game, much less a pair of them. For that reason alone, Biker Nob builds wind up being some of the easier armies to play with given their low unit count and high rate of movement. They also suffer the most when they actually lose a unit, but that goes with the territory.

Another low model count is Deffwing, essentially Mega-Nobz in either Trukks or Battlewagons (in which case, it may cross the line into Battlewagon Brigade). Again, few models and they hit hard. Basically the Orky version of a Terminator army. Their main drawbacks are currently expense (Mega-Nobz are currently only available in single model blisters), low model count and the fact that these guys need a transport to get anywhere even more than regular Boyz do.

The Green Tide works pretty well simply due to the fact that most armies don't gear to face a horde. Players loaded up with laser cannons and plasma weapons will cry when they see this list. Main drawbacks revolve around the high model count (150 - 180 Boyz plus whatever else you bring) since it takes a long time to paint, move and set up. Additionally, it's not that mobile and you can count on your front ranks to get shot up before actually hitting the enemy.

Battlewagon Brigade is another potent build. Basically 5-8 Battlewagons rolling along with AV14 in front and probably Deff Rollas. They smash into the enemy ranks and hurt, then the Boyz and Nobz pile out.

Kult of Speed is a fun one. With this build, it doesn't matter what you take so long as it's mobile. Biker Nobz, Warbiker Mobz, Boyz in Trukks. This army sacrifices its hoardy goodness to cross the battlefield as quickly as possible and slam into your opponent's lines. The main idea here is to hit your opponent quickly and hard to knock them out of the game. Ideally, you want to engage everything by turn 3 to prevent counter assaults once your units are finished with their first targets.

The Dread Mob is always fun. This one is Deff Dreads and Kans almost exclusively. These klanking, smoke belching monstrosities advance under cover of other units. The accurate (for Orks) fire from the Killa-Kans is used to soften up the enemy before your walkers stomp into melee. This army definitely needs some support to get your walkers into melee though and is most often seen as part of a Mek force.

Finally, you've got the hybrid builds and other combinations. These might be just entertainment lists, Mek builds or troop builds with other add ons. Regardless of what you're doing here though, Rule #1 is Boyz Before Toyz. The one common thread with all of these builds is that they need a solid core of troops to really be successful. There are some very potent lists here, but they all start to have problems when they run out of Boyz.

That's really the nice part of the Ork book. Whatever you want to do, you can generally play whatever army you want to play and have a shot at success.

marv335
14-02-2009, 17:26
the Ork army is lucky in that there is more than one competitive build.

Emeraldw
14-02-2009, 17:29
the Ork army is lucky in that there is more than one competitive build.

I was thinking the same thing. You can make almost any list and will be decent.

arch_inquisitor
14-02-2009, 17:35
I was thinking the same thing. You can make almost any list and will be decent.

How do you not make a competitive Ork list with the current dex.

Corrode
14-02-2009, 17:37
Steps to make a competitive Ork list:

1) Write down the names of each unit on individual pieces of paper.
2) Discard Flash Gitz.
3) Pin the rest to a dartboard.
4) Throw darts until you've filled your points requirement.

Snotteef
14-02-2009, 17:45
Steps to make a competitive Ork list:

1) Write down the names of each unit on individual pieces of paper.
2) Discard Flash Gitz.
3) Pin the rest to a dartboard.
4) Throw darts until you've filled your points requirement.

Hahahahah!

Maybe I'm a martyr, but I REALLY miss the old codex. I liked playing a somewhat rare army that took some thought to be effective with. Now Orks are common as dirt and easier than Paris Hilton. *sigh*

Simkin78
14-02-2009, 17:56
Thanks all! I appreciate the insights.
I was thinking basically the same thing and have made several lists just to see what looked like it would work. As soon as I got the codex I picked up on Nob bikers and drove my game group crazy while they tried to find ways to kill them. They figured out a way just in time for me to start fielding Snikrots Kommandos and mucking up their well laid plans. I haven't won alot of games because I was too busy with the Waaagh! to worry about objectives and such, but Orks never lose so I'm not worried about it.:skull:
One question though, what is it about Flash Gitz that everyone seems to dislike? I know they're very expensive considering what they are capable of and I haven't yet play tested them in any meaningful way but for those of you who have, what do you find is the most compelling reason to leave them in the case?

Radium
14-02-2009, 17:57
Steps to make a competitive Ork list:

1) Write down the names of each unit on individual pieces of paper.
2) Discard Flash Gitz.
3) Pin the rest to a dartboard.
4) Throw darts until you've filled your points requirement.

Sadly, this is absolutely true.

@MrGiggles: Please don't say the green tide is good because people do not gear towards hordes. Even if they do, the tide kicks the crap out of most armies. In great part due to 5th eds over system.

Corrode
14-02-2009, 18:03
Hahahahah!

Maybe I'm a martyr, but I REALLY miss the old codex. I liked playing a somewhat rare army that took some thought to be effective with. Now Orks are common as dirt and easier than Paris Hilton. *sigh*

I rather like the new, effective Ork army list, and it's great that there's a variety of different workable builds. You can take a combined arms approach, or Speed Freeks, or Green Tide, or Dreadstomp or Deffwing and any of them is likely to do well, and that's a fantastic thing to be able to say about a Codex. I suspect that as we see more 5th edition codices released (hopefully with a similar design philosophy) Orks will be naturally reduced in power and we can keep our variety without being quite as imbalanced.

FBI
14-02-2009, 18:20
I think all who start orkz need a lot of boyz. Swamp em first, and fink of taktiks later.
I made a kore of 60 boyz first. and now i am ekspanding into a speedfreek army.

Nym
14-02-2009, 18:27
Flash Gitz, what do you find is the most compelling reason to leave them in the case?

BS2, expensive and random, basically. Randomness is quite the opposite of competitiveness (is it a word ?). Add to this that a drunken gretchin aims better than they do, and you've got a shooty unit that ends up being better in Assault than it is in Shooting...

Radium
14-02-2009, 18:35
BS2, expensive and random, basically. Randomness is quite the opposite of competitiveness (is it a word ?). Add to this that a drunken gretchin aims better than they do, and you've got a shooty unit that ends up being better in Assault than it is in Shooting...

They can be pretty good, just not at what they should do. They are still nobz, and can take a painboy. See where this is going?

@Corrode: the old codex was pretty good too, it's just that most ork players back then didn't give a crap about TT performance, and went for cool armies instead.

Corrode
14-02-2009, 18:35
Basically Shoota Boyz can do everything Flash Gitz do for a fraction of the cost. A maxed out unit of Flash Gitz costs 400pts and does 20 Str 6, random AP shots per turn. A maxed out unit of Shootaz costs 120pts and does 60 Str shots a turn. You can get 3 squads of Shootas for the cost of one Flash Gitz mob, or 2 1/2 Mobs including Nobz with PKs, and come away laughing.

@Radium and now those same players can go for cool armies and have them be effective. I'd say it's an upgrade ;) although you're right, you could put out some decent builds with the 3rd edition codex, they were just a bit more specific (Kult of Speed was pretty good as I remember).

Mozzamanx
14-02-2009, 18:48
Flash Gits aren't all bad, the math behind them seems pretty tasty. I expect most players are just using them wrong.

They're still Nobz, with 'Eavy Armour and FNP. For 5pts, they lose an attack but gain an extra 2 (less accurate) every shooting phase. Just use them as Nobz, and treat the shooting as an added bonus and some insurance.

Simkin78
14-02-2009, 18:57
Got it. So it really is all about the points. I figured that just by looking at them but I have to wonder if a smaller unit of these guys might be worth it for the simple fact that most opponents might look at your Gitz and see what most people do, an ineffective highly priced unit, rather than seeing them as Nobz. Just don't deck them out too much and the way I see it you've got a group of surprise Nobz. What do you think?


Flash Gits aren't all bad, the math behind them seems pretty tasty. I expect most players are just using them wrong.

They're still Nobz, with 'Eavy Armour and FNP. For 5pts, they lose an attack but gain an extra 2 (less accurate) every shooting phase. Just use them as Nobz, and treat the shooting as an added bonus and some insurance.
This is exactly what I was thinking.

Corrode
14-02-2009, 19:09
The other reason not to take Flash Gitz is the slot - they're competing with Killa Kans, Dreadnoughts, Looted Wagons, Battlewagonz and Big Gunz. All of those are better choices than a mob of Flash Gitz.

FGs aren't bad and you can easily run a unit of them and not suffer for it, but there's so many better, cheaper choices available that there's no good reason to besides 'I like the unit' or 'it's fluffy'.

The_Outsider
14-02-2009, 19:15
Flash gitz with more dakka and shottier for laughs work out as the ork's version of immortals, they pump out a horrendous amount of fire (even at BS2) and with the gitfinda they can be used to do horrible horrible things.

Gorbad Ironclaw
14-02-2009, 19:36
I think the question is wrong. It should be, what doesn't make for a competitive Ork army?

Because really, almost all the choices are good enough that you can just include them. There is a few common themes, like the green horde, the biker (nob) army, the all walker army etc. but really, you can mix and match things as you like.

Pyriel
14-02-2009, 19:57
Hahahahah!

Maybe I'm a martyr, but I REALLY miss the old codex. I liked playing a somewhat rare army that took some thought to be effective with. Now Orks are common as dirt and easier than Paris Hilton. *sigh*

easier than that?okay, i like hyperboles, but that's too much.

sulla
14-02-2009, 20:21
Sadly, this is absolutely true.

@MrGiggles: Please don't say the green tide is good because people do not gear towards hordes. Even if they do, the tide kicks the crap out of most armies. In great part due to 5th eds over system.

I've got a whole bunch of storm boyz and kommandos. I haven't played 5th edition. Can these guys work ok in predominately footslogger force?

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
14-02-2009, 21:06
Sure. They work quite good.

Orks codex is most awersome codex atm. I wish other armies will get the same treatment ...

It's hard to play against the army, but i never whined that they have so much great stuff.

They deserve it! They are awersome!

And no, i don't have Orks army.

Corrode
14-02-2009, 21:09
I've got a whole bunch of storm boyz and kommandos. I haven't played 5th edition. Can these guys work ok in predominately footslogger force?

Both of them are workable. Kommandos in particular can be very effective combined with Snikrot, so that they pop up pretty much anywhere and set to burninating things.

wingedserpant
14-02-2009, 21:41
Take a strong shooting aspect to your army.

You can take the likes of Nob bikers and snikrot commandos if you wish but a less cheeey thing to do is to take a few units of shoota boyz and loota's.

It helps you get rid of things that can beat orks in combat or something really dangerous at range. Plus shoota boyz are still orks and weill beat in alot of things provided they have a power claw.

Born Again
15-02-2009, 04:43
I haven't yet playtested Flash Gitz, but from looking at their stats I'd say that there's nothing wrong with them: as said, there's just better options. They're not heavy support in the sense that they sit back and blast. Get them up closer, shoot something when you can (and hope the dice roll well for AP), but get them stuck in assaulting too. But yeah, other, better choices... they're really only there if you have points to spare and have a particular fondness for them (like me :D)

march10k
15-02-2009, 09:31
How do you not make a competitive Ork list with the current dex.


QFT.

A competitive ork list is ANY list you can possibly build using the current ork codex.

Ok, maybe that's slightly OTT, but unless you're the sort of fool who asks if his TK light cavalry list is too cheesy, you're probably building something competitive.

AntsArmies
15-02-2009, 11:59
I have always gone for the value for money figures. Killercans/Dreadnaughts have always been brilliant. On top of this the heavy weapons boys are great if you have about 5 of them all lined up with a good line of fire. They don't necessarily hit anything but they are a really good deterant to stop the enemy move anything valuable through there.

Cheers,

ANt

volair
15-02-2009, 18:54
I haven't yet playtested Flash Gitz, but from looking at their stats I'd say that there's nothing wrong with them: as said, there's just better options. They're not heavy support in the sense that they sit back and blast. Get them up closer, shoot something when you can (and hope the dice roll well for AP), but get them stuck in assaulting too. But yeah, other, better choices... they're really only there if you have points to spare and have a particular fondness for them (like me :D)

There is a key factor that you are overlooking which must be considered along with stats and weaponry: point cost. You need to start thinking in terms of normalized point costs in order to have a sense of how good something is. After all, how can you call something good unless there is a standard reference point. With no reference everything in life would be a blur and we couldn't perceive change.

avatar of kaine
15-02-2009, 19:04
for 1500 points I would say lots of boyz, loadz of boyz, nobz and even more Boyz and a (dirt cheap) warboss.

although if you were to go for 500 PTS MORE (2000 pts) from what i've heard 8 battlewagons, a few units of nobs and a warboss work very well. (and yes this can be done in a non-apocalypse 2000pt force)

Bunnahabhain
15-02-2009, 19:13
Steps to make a competitive Ork list:

1) Write down the names of each unit on individual pieces of paper.
2) Discard Flash Gitz.
3) Pin the rest to a dartboard.
4) Throw darts until you've filled your points requirement.

My version was even more simple.

Use this codex.

Just long enough to meet minimum character count, missing no important points.

Really, assuming you are a reasonably competent player, almost any Ork list is good enough to face just about any other list. Yes, a thrown together Ork list will have a tough time against a tournie optimised Eldar or CSM list, but try that with a thrown together Guard one.....

volair
15-02-2009, 19:45
Play with Shoota Boyz, Lootaz, and biker Nobz

Gutbusta
16-02-2009, 05:02
i say the most competitive list probably includes a good mix of boyz and armour. ive played orks for eight years and this is my opinion. get a couple of dreads to take alot of the heavy firepower then have most of ur boyz in trukks. they'll get there fast and be able to get into assault. dont spend too many points on characters cause they dont do much for orks. finally get a group of nobz and burnas to kill bigger units the burnas count as power weapons in assault no more terminators and but both in battlewagons:)

Darklord Yorke
16-02-2009, 10:40
Anything thats Red - Red makes things Faster!!

Take a Warboss and a few Nobz - Fill out the rest of your army with Boyz.
The enemy will be swomped!

tmar78
16-02-2009, 11:47
Sure. They work quite good.

Orks codex is most awersome codex atm. I wish other armies will get the same treatment ...

It's hard to play against the army, but i never whined that they have so much great stuff.

They deserve it! They are awersome!

And no, i don't have Orks army.

So true! Just the basic ork boy is one of the best troops choices in the game, points-wise.