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long bow
15-02-2009, 09:32
i was wondering could a wolf carry a man? because i wanted to do some kislev horse archers on wolfs but would a man be too heavy for a wolf?

Ward.
15-02-2009, 09:37
i was wondering could a wolf carry a man? because i wanted to do some kislev horse archers on wolfs but would a man be too heavy for a wolf?

I doubt it, wolves aren't really designed for load bearing.

Something like this came up in a discussion about elves riding lions a while back.

EDIT: That said, glue anything you want to the back of the wolf and just say "these wolves are capable of carrying people".

Braad
15-02-2009, 09:40
Actually, from what I know, there are no predators that are 'designed' for this purpose at all. So also no tigers, lions and so on...
If you wan't to keep it in a way close to reality, you could stick to horses, or try donkeys, cows...

But if you just want to do something cool, then why not. My goblins ride wolves. You just need bigger wolves for men probably.
Remember it is a fantasy setting. A wolf in that world does not have to be the same wolf we have here.

Ward.
15-02-2009, 09:43
Actually, from what I know, there are no predators that are 'designed' for this purpose at all. .

Crocodiles.

It's effectiveness on the other hand, leaves much to be desired.

Oberon
15-02-2009, 09:44
Foxes are a bit like wolves, but a bit smaller, right? I don't believe (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=540_1234005919) that wolves could carry a man, as those foxes definitely cannot. Of course, WH is a fantasy setting, so it just might have wolves that carry men around...

Griefbringer
15-02-2009, 09:45
Notice that the wolves that goblins and hobgoblins ride are not the wolves of our world, but massively proportioned giant wolves.

Since they can carry a hobgoblin they should be able to carry a man.

Edit: crocodile-riding saurus warriors for the wins!

tortoise
15-02-2009, 10:59
In real life a wolf cannot carry a man. Its to do with the structure of the backbone. Even a wolf the size of a horse could not carry a man as its backbone would snap. Can't remember where I read that though. It does mean however that 'in reality' a goblin couldn't ride a wolf either. So if you can find some wolf models that work with your Kislev archers then go for it- Wolves are obviously different in the Warhammer world.

Bregalad
15-02-2009, 10:59
Normal wolves are about shepard dog sized and weight less than a man. So no, realistically a human can't ride them (even if his legs were not reaching the floor). Magic wolves might be taller and stronger, but it is a bit of a stretch.

But how about reindeer (http://www.battlefield-berlin.de/shop/index.php?cat=WG772&product=PIP73024 ) ? (Horde also has wolf riders BTW http://www.battlefield-berlin.de/shop/index.php?cat=WG774&product=PIP72024 )

Kerill
15-02-2009, 11:25
Irish wolfhounds used to be big enough to technically ride though (about the size of a donkey) and GW chaos hounds are a fair bit bigger than wolves in real life. Best thing would be to test out the idea, if they look ok then give it a go.

Sifal
15-02-2009, 11:26
timber wolfs can sometimes be found at 170+ lbs!!!!! this species is consistently much larger than 'shepard dog' (border collie) sized animals. In the real world they can can be 170lbs and come no higher than a mans waist. In the warhammer world they are much bigger in comparison (the dire wolf models being 2-3x the volume of a man.) I'd say given the relative size comparison of a warhammer man compared to the newer, larger warhammer men you could get away with it fine so long as the model 'looked' right scale wise. I'd personally say wolf models are too old and small and dire wof models are too dead so maybe think 6th edition metal warhounds or 7th edition plastic warhounds?

Urgat
15-02-2009, 11:33
As Griefbringer pointed out, the wolves goblins ride are not wolves, they're giant wolves. They're called that way, and you can tell just by looking at them. I assume they're tough enough for a guy t ride on it, since they can accomodate armoured hobgoblins pretty well.

bomblu
15-02-2009, 11:38
I'd go for chaos hounds + greenstuff to make them more fury and less evil (to fit kislev) but hey...it's fantasy, and your immagination's the limit :D

Braad
15-02-2009, 12:02
As tortoise says, it has indeed more to do with anatomical structure than the weight/size of the creature.

But I agree more with the last sentence bomblu just put down.
There's also no people riding dragons in our world, so what...

javgoro
15-02-2009, 12:05
In reality? No, no it can´t, due to their bone structure. In warhammer? Invoke the rule of cool. I would congratulate you on a cool idea if I played against you.

Storak
15-02-2009, 12:56
dogs are able to carry gear (http://store.mpgear.com/granitegearruffriderdogpack.aspx)on their back.

dogs (wolfs) of the right size and trained to do it, could carry riders of the right size.

while "backbone" discussions might be funny, it is a fantasy world...

Ward.
15-02-2009, 14:25
Edit: crocodile-riding saurus warriors for the wins!
I knew somebody would mention it.


dogs are able to carry gear (http://store.mpgear.com/granitegearruffriderdogpack.aspx)on their back.

dogs (wolfs) of the right size and trained to do it, could carry riders of the right size.

while "backbone" discussions might be funny, it is a fantasy world...

They don't carry it directly on their back, you'll notice it's designed to spread the weight out.

Although you could certainly strap a midget to one. Maybe paint him green first, claim he's a goblin for nerd points.

isidril93
15-02-2009, 16:17
Best thing would be to test out the idea, if they look ok then give it a go.

for a second i thought you meant we should go sit on a wolf and see what happens

Griefbringer
15-02-2009, 17:17
But how about reindeer

Real world reindeer would be too small for riding. It would either need to be fantastic giant reindeer, moose or elk to be large enough. And moose are not really easy to domesticate, though there is an institute somewhere in Russia where they are seriously experimenting with that - though it is stated to be a long term project.

Condottiere
15-02-2009, 17:52
Our dogs and probably their wolf relatives can't be ridden by us.

However, that doesn't mean that someone somewhere in the Warhammer world didn't start a breeding program to incorporate these traits in.

Hence halflings and Gnomes have the possibility to ride dogs and goblins wolves. Giant versions, of course.

theunwantedbeing
15-02-2009, 18:24
A giant warhammer wolf can carry a man just fine.

A giant wolf in full plate armour would have more difficulty, depending upon how the armour conforms to the shape of the wolf.

innerwolf
15-02-2009, 18:25
I think giant wolves won't be able to carry people bareback. But with a harness to put the weight over the shoulders instead of the back it could be possible. Carnivores usually have robust structures on their front legs-shoulders.

Condottiere
15-02-2009, 18:26
Battle-cat has a harness.

long bow
15-02-2009, 19:44
are the GW wolves big enough meaning the one in the bitz pack?

isidril93
15-02-2009, 19:52
Real world reindeer would be too small for riding. It would either need to be fantastic giant reindeer, moose or elk to be large enough. And moose are not really easy to domesticate, though there is an institute somewhere in Russia where they are seriously experimenting with that - though it is stated to be a long term project.

wood elves ride giant stags which is a tpe of deer

innerwolf
15-02-2009, 20:04
are the GW wolves big enough meaning the one in the bitz pack?

I suggest buying LotR plastic Wargs and giving them GW wolves heads. I have seen the conversion and it looks amazing.
Warhounds of Chaos with GW wolves heads could work too.

You can use the GW wolves as they are, but their bodies have weird proportions and look too small for the ehads.

Condottiere
15-02-2009, 20:10
In the movie, the LotR Wargs are big enough to take a man.

Volker the Mad Fiddler
15-02-2009, 20:16
wood elves ride giant stags which is a tpe of deer

True, but the giant stags seem to be based on Irish Elk- an extinct form of megafauna whose antlers themselves could weigh up to around 90 lbs [40 kg].

decker_cky
15-02-2009, 20:18
I'm can confidently say that a giant wolf could carry a person of Kislev descent, but that the weight would be enough to encumber the wolf, dropping it's movement to 8.

Condottiere
15-02-2009, 20:34
It's generally perceived that goblins are lighter than humans.

long bow
15-02-2009, 20:58
i am not really a fan of the chaos warhound turned in to wolfs because i cant use GS that well

The Samaritan
15-02-2009, 21:02
a man would be much too heavy for a wolf. Get giant wolves.

long bow
15-02-2009, 21:06
but are the games work one giant wolves? meaning thge 5 from the bitz pack.

The Red Scourge
15-02-2009, 21:41
Forget about wolves and dogs. Hire an imperial engineer and have steam wolves built, with giant razor fangs ;)

O&G'sRule
15-02-2009, 21:50
Crocodiles.

It's effectiveness on the other hand, leaves much to be desired.

Hippo's whilst not carnivores have been known to eat zebras and wilderbeast. And men I think
Wolves are fine though, read the title on the box Warhammer the game of FANTASY battles

Urgat
15-02-2009, 21:58
It's generally perceived that goblins are lighter than humans.

What about hobgoblins though? They're probably as heavy as humans, and they ride giant wolves too.

Condottiere
15-02-2009, 22:06
You have a point, one does tend to overlook hobgoblins.

They bred the wolves to take the weight of a man-sized rider.

Condottiere
15-02-2009, 22:07
But you can ride Wild Boars?

Bregalad
15-02-2009, 23:13
Real world reindeer would be too small for riding. It would either need to be fantastic giant reindeer, moose or elk to be large enough.
Reindeer are quite small, but the Sami people (reindeer herders, also a bit short ;) ) actually ride on them once in a while.

Lewis
15-02-2009, 23:35
On the commentary to the Two Towers LotR movies I believe there is a discussion of the difficulties of designing a ridable carnivore...

Bregalad
15-02-2009, 23:46
Actually, horses were not "designed" by nature to let humans ride on them.

Condottiere
16-02-2009, 00:47
So we're back to breeding programs.

Ward.
16-02-2009, 02:04
Hippo's whilst not carnivores have been known to eat zebras and wilderbeast. And men I think

Yeah they do, but there's more to it then just physical characteristics.
It comes down to temperament, hippos are incredibly moody animals.

While crocodiles are just as mean, the fact that they can go so long without eating (and therefore needing to maul the guy strapped to their back) makes them trainable.
It's just that you'll have a ground clearance of 4 inches and your charges would peak at 5 KMs an hour.


But you can ride Wild Boars?
In warhammer and most other fantasy settings, yes.
IRL, no and I wouldn't try it :p
Maybe a non wild boar, as I've seen a lot of rednecks riding pigs.


Actually, horses were not "designed" by nature to let humans ride on them.

Well obviously not for that exact purpose but it did give them the ability to bear heavy loads.


What about hobgoblins though? They're probably as heavy as humans, and they ride giant wolves too.
I hypothesize that they're only slightly taller then goblins and still wouldn't have a lot of weight on them.

Condottiere
16-02-2009, 12:37
Lack of proper information again. Though, to be fair, has anyone actually come across a hobgoblin?

javgoro
16-02-2009, 17:45
Thinking about this issue a bit more in depth... The wolves´ back isn´t designed for bearing heavy loads. However, what about the "shoulders"?
In a slightly similar manner than the herald of Khorne on a juggernaut, but instead of standing on the shoulders, sitting on them, with your legs to the sides of the wolf´s head, could work, if we´re talking about a giant wolf. In any event, this is all hypothetical speculation, and in Warhammer you could simply invoke the rule of cool.

Gillburg
16-02-2009, 19:03
my ungols rider the chaos maruder horses

they work very well. just file off the chaos emblems