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View Full Version : Gondor Conflict lists, which is better?



Xarius
15-02-2009, 18:59
got two as competitive as possible lists for LOTR conflict scotland and i want you to decide which is better. The missions are take the middle, a variant of kill the king (with all heroes worth a point) and a straight fight.

madril
faramir
18 rangers
16 warriors minas tirith with shields hand weapons
22 spearmen minas tirith with shields

or

beregond
damrod
11 rangers
20 knights minas tirith with shields
24 warriors minas tirith with shields

poll above, tactically advice below, cheers

Xarius
16-02-2009, 18:24
anyone got anything?

RohanCaptain
16-02-2009, 18:40
I'm actually trying to put a similar list together for Gondor. I haven't tested it yet, but I will sometime this week.

How many points you playing??

Xarius
16-02-2009, 19:22
600, two 300 pts armies, its a doubles tourney

lotrchampion
16-02-2009, 19:23
How many points is this meant to be? What composition rules are you using? I'm assuming LoME and 600pts by the look of the lists. I get your second list as coming to 605pts, and your first at 595, although I assume you'd give Faramir a bow for the extra 5 points.

List 1: Decent amount of Might and Shots. Good numerically as well. It does however lack proper punch, and heavily armoured forces or hordes could cause it problems. I would be inclined to cut down on spearmen a little, make the appropriate changes to the bow limit, drop Madril and take a Dwarf Captain with some Khazad Guard. Either that are ally in Faramir from Tower of Ecthelion to allow him to have heavy armour/horse/lance and stick him with a few Knights.

List 2:
Too little might for my liking. At 600pts, the minimum I feel inclined to play with is 3. I would personally lower the number of Knights, drop Damrod and ally in a King of Men on horse with the gubbins. I'd also try and find the points to give those Rangers spears.

Here's some lists based on my suggestions that I quickly threw together:

Tower of Ecth:
Faramir w/ Horse, HArmour, Shield
5 KoMT w/ Shield

Rangers of Ith:
Madril
31 WoMT w/ Shield
15 Rangers w/ Spear

53 models
6 Might
16 shots/turn

For those who like more models and some more spears:

Tower of Ecth:
Faramir w/ Horse, HArmour, Shield
5 KoMT w/ Shield

Rangers of Ith:
Damrod
21 WoMT w/ Shield
12 WoMT w/ Shield + Spear
16 Rangers w/ Spear

56 models
4 Might
17 shots/turn


And now, with Dwarves!

Rangers of Ith:
Faramir w/ Bow
12 WoMT w/ Shield
12 WoMT w/ Shield and Spear
12 Rangers w/ Spear

Erebor:
Dwarf Captain w/ Shield + Throwing Weapons
13 Khazad Guard

51 models
5 Might
13 shots/turn


Anyway, part of writing your list is always down to your playing style-whether you like having Might points to splash everywhere, innumerable models to throw at the enemy, or a balance between the two. And remember, you could always cheese it out further...


5 Rangers of the North w/ Spear
20 Rangers of Arnor w/ Spear
Dwarf Captain w/ Shield
20 Khazad Guard

46 models
25 shots/turn
7 Might

Khazad Guard backed up by GC w/ Spears....YAY!!!! :p

Good luck at Conflict!

Xarius
16-02-2009, 22:21
How many points is this meant to be? What composition rules are you using? I'm assuming LoME and 600pts by the look of the lists. I get your second list as coming to 605pts, and your first at 595, although I assume you'd give Faramir a bow for the extra 5 points.

List 1: Decent amount of Might and Shots. Good numerically as well. It does however lack proper punch, and heavily armoured forces or hordes could cause it problems. I would be inclined to cut down on spearmen a little, make the appropriate changes to the bow limit, drop Madril and take a Dwarf Captain with some Khazad Guard. Either that are ally in Faramir from Tower of Ecthelion to allow him to have heavy armour/horse/lance and stick him with a few Knights.

List 2:
Too little might for my liking. At 600pts, the minimum I feel inclined to play with is 3. I would personally lower the number of Knights, drop Damrod and ally in a King of Men on horse with the gubbins. I'd also try and find the points to give those Rangers spears.

Here's some lists based on my suggestions that I quickly threw together:

Tower of Ecth:
Faramir w/ Horse, HArmour, Shield
5 KoMT w/ Shield

Rangers of Ith:
Madril
31 WoMT w/ Shield
15 Rangers w/ Spear

53 models
6 Might
16 shots/turn

For those who like more models and some more spears:

Tower of Ecth:
Faramir w/ Horse, HArmour, Shield
5 KoMT w/ Shield

Rangers of Ith:
Damrod
21 WoMT w/ Shield
12 WoMT w/ Shield + Spear
16 Rangers w/ Spear

56 models
4 Might
17 shots/turn


And now, with Dwarves!

Rangers of Ith:
Faramir w/ Bow
12 WoMT w/ Shield
12 WoMT w/ Shield and Spear
12 Rangers w/ Spear

Erebor:
Dwarf Captain w/ Shield + Throwing Weapons
13 Khazad Guard

51 models
5 Might
13 shots/turn


Anyway, part of writing your list is always down to your playing style-whether you like having Might points to splash everywhere, innumerable models to throw at the enemy, or a balance between the two. And remember, you could always cheese it out further...


5 Rangers of the North w/ Spear
20 Rangers of Arnor w/ Spear
Dwarf Captain w/ Shield
20 Khazad Guard

46 models
25 shots/turn
7 Might

Khazad Guard backed up by GC w/ Spears....YAY!!!! :p

Good luck at Conflict!

Faramir w/ bow 75

9 rangers 72

9 warriors w/ shields 72

9 spearmen w/ shields 81

Madril 55

9 rangers 72

7 warriors w/ shields 56

13 spearmen w/ shields 117

no i get 600 pts. thanks for the advice though.

Insane Psychopath
16-02-2009, 22:43
Just to say that Conflict Scotland will be useing the Legion rule for Lord of the Ring, was ment to be use last year but never put it in the pack & was to late to let people know.

Ticket should be on sale very soon, belive next week or so??

I should be there for 40k, going to try take some more photos of the cool armies.

IP

Xarius
16-02-2009, 23:29
tickets goin on sale 28th feb but you can buy them now. its the guy who won it 2 yeas ago ho has written the rules pack and the scenarios are cool

Insane do you go to gw glasgow?

lotrchampion
16-02-2009, 23:49
Xarius, I meant your second list with Beregond and Damrod. That comes in at 605 to my reckoning.

Wish I could make it to one of the Conflict events, I guess I'll just have to satisfy myself with searching out some LotR events closer to me...good luck to all of you heading to Conflict, whiever system you're going for. :)

Xarius
17-02-2009, 20:05
beregond 20

20 knights w/ shields 280

damrod 20

11 rangers 88

24 warriors w/ shields 192

600 wheres the prblem and you said the first list was 595 as well, ar u sure your're a lotr champ?

lotrchampion
17-02-2009, 22:29
Beregond is 25 pts according to my rulebook, unless he recieved a points drop in Gondor in Flames? I do apologise if I'm wrong, I did own a copy of RotK (released at the same time as GiF, but had evil profiles as well so more worthwhile) but it got lost/stolen at GT last year.

Like I said, I still think the Knights list could do better by including a mounted hero. Your Knights are completely reliant on getting priority, and any decent opponent knows how to stop a cavalry charge dead in their tracks in such circumstances. A mounted hero would give them the option of Heroic Combat, allowing them to break the front ranks. As it is, as soon as your opponent gets priority, you will lose the majority of those Knights; S4 opponents will smack them dead fairly easily, and S3 hordes will surround them, kill the horse and then the rider. Finally, in this variant of TKaK, both your heroes could be taken out easily with shooting, and you have nothing strong to take on opposing heroes.

The second list is better, but I would definitely make some changes. Neither of these are 'as competitive as possible' like you make out, and both could be strengthened massively. With the Beregond list, against decent opponents I would expect the only one you would win is Take the Middle, purely due to the speed. With the Faramir list, I would say you have a good chance in Meeting Engagement, a far better chance in TKaK variant, and perhaps a slightly weaker Take the Centre force, due to the lack of cavalry, but you still have enough numbers to hold it.

Another point for the first list would be to use Osgiliath Veterans instead of WoMT. Higher Courage, and when Faramir is near, they become FV4, making them far better against the likes of Khazad Guard, Morannon Orcs and Uruk-hai, which are the bane of many heavily armoured forces.

And finally, remember a LotR Champ wins games of LotR, not a game of counting where his point of reference is the source material he has available to him. ;)

Xarius
17-02-2009, 23:09
beregond is 20 pts. now and how would you adapt these lists as opposed to creating new ones?
btw the tkak scenario is 1 pt for every enemy hero killed and 1 pt for every hero of yours at the end within 6" of the enemy

lotrchampion
17-02-2009, 23:46
Well the lists I posted above were changed lists, but I assume you mean minor tweaks, not a rewrite...;)

Faramir w/ Horse, Heavy Armour, Lance
5 Knights of MInas Tirith w/ Shield

Madril
15 Warriors of MT w/ Shield
15 Warriors of MT w/ Shield + Spear
10 Rangers of Ithilien w/ Spear
5 Rangers of Ithilien

52 models
6 Might
16 shots/turn

It does have fewer models that both your current lists, but if you wanted more models and less Might, you could drop out Madril for Damrod and some more Bods.

So, a run through of this force and how it should be looking to fare in the scenarios:

Capture the Centre
You have 3 options here:
1. Knights forward, sit on terrain, charge when enemy comes near, reinforce with your men.

2. Knights around cover/across board, hit enemy lines, delay enemy while your force reaches centre & hold.

3. Hold back and let the enemy reach the objective first, then try and beat him off it with impact from the Knights and attrition tactics on the front.

Personally, I would look to move my infantry towards the objective as fast as possible, including the Rangers. Yes, in the turns of shooting against the enemy you might kill 10 models, but he still probably has more models at the objective because you have 15 sat shooting from behind. Remmeber, play to the objectives-go for the centre. Try and keep your Cavalry in cover, either from terrain or behind your lines. Once you get to the centre, you should use your cavalry to lap round the enemy lines as they approach, and hit them in the flank and the rear. Don't be afraid to use Might to make sure you get to the objective first. Once you're there, hold your front line as far forward as possible to stop your opponent getting close, shield if needed. Let the Knights do damage, and as their numbers dwindle, you can start striking with your front ranks to push the opponent back further.

TKaK Variant
Again, the important thing to remember here is play to the objectives. Use your shooting to try and take out any weaker Captains that may be about, and should a more powerful hero be present, its always worth engaging them at distance where they can't hit you back! Force the enemy to come to you if you can, using your shooting to pepper his heroes. He'll have to move forward to sooner or later if he wants a hope of some points, at which point you can try and absorb the charge with the shieldwall, and then counter with the knights. This way, you should, towards the end of the game, have both Madril and Faramir (assuming they live) close to enemy lines, and able to use their Might to good effect, and hopefully some of the opposing heroes dead or wounded. Play to your strengths, and remember to keep in mind the objective.

Meeting Engagement
You should dominate in this one. Like in TKaK, play defensively, and force your opponent to come to you. If there are particularly competant enemy archers such as Elves or GC on the other side of the table, try and use terrain to allow your Cavalry to reach them in tact, and hold up the archers for as long as possible so you can close with him. GC could cause problems, but hell, GC cause most people problems. But remember, if you do face GC, they're still only D4, so your arrows will take them out fairly quickly, while your archers will be safe behind the Tin Men of Minas Tirith.


This army focuses a lot on making the most of the archers and the Knights, leaving the basic Bods to clean up the mess. Remember your target priorities, and deal with them with whichever is more competant-your Archers would be better disposed aiming at the 2nd rank of Orc Spearmen, for example, than the Morannons in front. And if all else fails....front lines shielding FTW!

Xarius
18-02-2009, 19:17
i think i wont be goin with the cavalry list mainly cause i just wont be able to get that many knights but i'll see what my partner says, i'm still considering everything

Xarius
08-03-2009, 23:06
Well the lists I posted above were changed lists, but I assume you mean minor tweaks, not a rewrite...;)

Faramir w/ Horse, Heavy Armour, Lance
5 Knights of MInas Tirith w/ Shield

Madril
15 Warriors of MT w/ Shield
15 Warriors of MT w/ Shield + Spear
10 Rangers of Ithilien w/ Spear
5 Rangers of Ithilien

52 models
6 Might
16 shots/turn


does this add up to 2 300 pts. legions legal lists as it is pretty much what i came up with but i dont think that you can take rangers and knights in the same list, can you? also in take the centre your guys come on from random table edges so a line would be hard to assemble

Pitalla Crimson
08-03-2009, 23:16
I would definitely pick the one with faramir and madril.
yeah!

Insane Psychopath
08-03-2009, 23:40
Sorry no help with the list again (don't play much LotR even though I have a Gondor army while I was part timer staffer for GW :D )

Xarius, in the event you don't know. Ticket are only sale now for Conflict Scotland & on that note best to try get them soon due to it'll be the only Conflict event in the UK.


Insane do you go to gw glasgow?

Use to but stop going to the store in Aug 2007, reason are my own. Now go to GW Falkirk (lot good tournament mate there) & go to GW Edibnrugh because that where I use to work as part timer.

IP

Xarius
09-03-2009, 00:01
got mine almost a month ago oh and i really need to know if u can put knights and rangers in the same legions list

The Muster of Rohan
09-03-2009, 10:20
beregond is 20 pts. now

Sorry, he's 25. Check out the FAQ for the Return of the King journey book:


Q. Page 87: Beregond is listed as costing 20 points, where as in every other book that he is listed in, he costs 25 points. Which is correct?
A. Gah, curses! Beregond costs 25 points.

Regardless of that, the most recently published "version" of an profile is the one to be used, and that would be Gondor in Flames, in which (in my copy at least!) he costs 25 points.


oh and i really need to know if u can put knights and rangers in the same legions list

Yes, if you use the "Minas Tirith" list. The upside is that you can choose a mix of Warriors, Knights, Rangers, Citadel Guard, Fountain Court Guard, and Trebuchets. The downside is that your only Heroes are generic Captains and Kings.

Xarius
09-03-2009, 18:04
what do u think of a fully armed king on horse leading 5 knights

like this
king w/ h armour, shield, horse, lance

5 knights w/ shields

7 rangers

6 warriors w/shields

4 spearmen w/shields

Madril

9 rangers

7 warriors

13 spearmen

madril
king
16 rangers
13 warriors
17 spearmen
5 knights

52 models 4 might
17 shots

Xarius
09-03-2009, 22:34
the only thing faramir has over the king is a might and fate point but with a TKaK game the king has +1 defense

The Muster of Rohan
10-03-2009, 10:49
Personally, I'd have equal numbers of sword and spear throughout. That's just my bugbear.

I'd also include a banner in at least one of the forces - in a small game, the re-roll in fights is a major boost. It's all a case of picking you fights carefully, but if you have swordsmen supported by spearmen, with a banner in 3", you're in a commanding position.

Just off the top of my head:

FORCE 1 - MINAS TIRITH - 296 points
King of Men with heavy armour, shield, lance, horse - 85 points
5 Knights with shields - 70 points
5 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shield - 40 points
5 Warriors of Minas Tirith with spear and shield - 45 points
7 Rangers of Gondor - 56 points

FORCE 2 - THE RANGERS OF ITHILIEN - 296 points
Madril, Captain of Ithilien - 55 points
Warrior of Minas Tirith with banner - 32 points
9 Warriors of Minas Tirith with shield - 72 points
9 Warriors of Minas Tirith with spear and shield - 81 points
7 Rangers of Gondor - 56 points

TOTAL - King of Men, Madril, 5 Knights, 14 Warriors (sh), 14 Warriors (sp/sh), 14 Rangers
49 models, 15 shots @ 3+


That gives a solid infantry base, though you'd probably want to keep Madril nearby for Might. 15 bows is, admittedly, less than your list. And I assume you plan to use the King and Knights as an opportunistic strike force. Could work. Are you playing test games to see how the forces work?

Xarius
10-03-2009, 18:47
i had a few points left so i thought that they may as well have spears, what difference does it make e.g. in both your lists giving 4 swords spears gives them a supporting advantage if they are not needed in direct combat

The Muster of Rohan
11-03-2009, 10:17
That's completely true, I'm just oddly obsessive/compulsive when it comes to equal numbers of sword and spear. I'd definitely try to work in a banner, though.

Xarius
11-03-2009, 18:16
i'd lose 3 models for one and i hoe to not need it, i've never been keen on their 3" range anyway and you all seem to disagree on a list wih different play styles etc.

without banners (never been a fan) and going by my last list w/ mounted king what would you do to adjust it to make it more competitive

Xarius
17-03-2009, 00:12
right new list

king w/ h armour, shield, horse, lance

5 knights w/ shields

7 rangers

6 warriors w/shields

4 spearmen w/shields

Cirion

9 rangers

7 warriors

13 spearmen

Cirion
king
16 rangers
13 warriors
17 spearmen
5 knights

52 models 4 might
17 shots

got the rules pack so:

round 1: contested ground
board 4 quarters 1 teamsets sets up their 2 armies in any 2 quarters more than 15" away from the middle then other team does same, no closer than 12" of enemy
game ens when one team is broken in a 1 or 2
1 vp for every model entirely ithin 3" of board centre

round 2 escalation:
1 team sets up one army between 12-18" from a board edge, other team does same. on turn 1 other armies move on from remaining 2 board edges, can move and shoot as normal
game ends when 1 force is below 25%. 1 vp for every model left above yor 25% break at end of game.

round3 tkak:
setup in book doesnt make sense so 1 vp for enemy hero killed, 1 for every hero within 6" of enemy at end of game game ends on 1 or 2 when a force is broken

in all 3 key is not to be broken

Xarius
20-03-2009, 20:26
does anyone care about me anymore sniffle

The Muster of Rohan
20-03-2009, 20:33
Care about you? I barely know you...

Your list seems sound enough. Just so long as you know how you're going to use it for each scenario type and have some idea of how to adapt yuor tactics for different enemy forces, you'll do fine.

Xarius
24-03-2009, 15:16
right, played this list in all 3 scenarios, no where near good enough, my list relied upon it acting as one 'wall'. the scenarios make the 2 lists work independently. NEED MORE HELP NOW THAN EVER.

need a gondor list of 2 300pts. forces

RohanCaptain
25-03-2009, 16:24
Xarius,

your lists look good. Can U tell us a bit about what happened?? which armies did you play against??

You have a good number of rangers, great shooting there, should be easy to wind down the enemy from afar. You also have some knights, which can do damage, and move fast for any type of help/support needed.

The number of models you have is also reasonable for 600pts (2 x 300pts), at 52 models, they gotta kill 27 models for you to be broken, that could take a while.

you own any other models?? maybe you need some D7 guys, like fountain court with shields.

Xarius
25-03-2009, 17:18
i am truly considering 6 fountain court w/ shields. my problem was that the forces work well ogether but a bit average on their own. it also did nt help that we faced a dragon, 16 kataphraks and easterling chieftan in one game! i did win 2 out of 3 but my performance was no where near good enough!

RohanCaptain
25-03-2009, 18:46
that's still pretty good, 2 out of 3 is not bad at all.

Try the 6 shield fountain guards, it should give ya 6 tough models to hold ya from breaking. Even if they kill 1, you got 5 defence 7 models to balance out the breaking point.

I've never played a dragon, but from what I read in a WD mag, it said the best thing to do is, feed the dragon one model at a time and just keep it busy, while you try to obtain your objective with the rest. I can't remember the strenght of a dragon, but maybe the Guardians of fountain court would do well holding it in place.

let us know how you do if you change them :)

Xarius
25-03-2009, 19:20
one of those was really too easy, what would you think of cirions boys the same and

faramir w/ h armour

6 fountain w/ shields

3 warriors w/ shields

7 warriors w/ spear, shield

8 archers w/ spears

this way there is no swap needed between archers and spears and they are defense 5 though not 3+ to hit or fight 4 but thats how legions works

Xarius
31-03-2009, 18:25
got this now

king w/ h armour, shield, horse, lance

5 knights w/ shields

5 fountain court guard w/ shields

5 warriors w/shields

5 rangers w/ spears



Cirion

9 rangers

7 warriors

13 spearmen

Cirion
king
14 rangers
12 warriors
13 spearmen
5 knights

51 models 5 might
14 shots

RohanCaptain
01-04-2009, 02:37
Xarius, that looks pretty good, balanced 14 shots, defense 7 Guard of the fountain to deal with tough as nutz models, and 51 models overall means it's gonna be a while before they break ya.

Give this a go, and post how it goes. I'm building a Gondor list for a GT tourney as well, and kinda wanna know how some stuff works out.

Xarius
01-04-2009, 14:36
the problem with lotr is that it is way more up to chance andf dice rolls than the other games but that makes the tactics even deeper

Xarius
20-04-2009, 17:39
just like to say thanks to everyone as I WON. we are now officially the joint best doubles team in scotland as we drew exactly, even on vp's with the team we played in the final (a draw). thanks guys.

games were majo victory over dwarves
major victory over orcs/khand (mainly chariots)
draw wood elves/high elves

The Muster of Rohan
20-04-2009, 19:34
Congratulations!