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BlackIce
16-02-2009, 16:05
I was wondering, since we saw such a varied array of colours for them, are Valkyries a piece of equipment administered by the Imperial Guard or the Imperial Navy? I know the airforce proper is regarded as the property of the Navy (At least I think I do, do correct me if I am wrong) but given the more utilitarian role of the Valkyrie (And to a lesser extent, the Vulture) I wondered if it may be administered and admonished in the colours of the Guard regiments?

Vaktathi
16-02-2009, 16:07
They are technically Navy, but as attachments to IG regiments, they will be under operational IG command and may wear regimental colors.

MvS
16-02-2009, 16:21
Well if it serves as the Imperium's version of an attack helicopter, then I suppose it can belong to both Navy and Guard, although I imagine the Navy would have more use for their jet fighter equivalents...

Khas
16-02-2009, 16:32
I would say Guard actually, since these are purely atmospheric craft, with no space, or naval, value or purpose. Also they are an integral part of those Imperial Divisions (regiment being a bastardized misnomer by GW) and thus not an 'attached' support element like the other Navy aircraft are.

Vaktathi
16-02-2009, 16:38
I would say Guard actually, since these are purely atmospheric craft, with no space, or naval, value or purpose. Also they are an integral part of those Imperial Divisions (regiment being a bastardized misnomer by GW) and thus not an 'attached' support element like the other Navy aircraft are.

Thunderbolts, Lightnings and marauders are purely atmospheric as well, and also are specifically Navy, with one exception (phantine IG)

Valks are also still technically Navy assets, but typically on permanent attachment to IG units.

Johnnyfrej
16-02-2009, 16:39
Well if it serves as the Imperium's version of an attack helicopter, then I suppose it can belong to both Navy and Guard, although I imagine the Navy would have more use for their jet fighter equivalents...
That's how I interpet it. The (U.S.) Army uses it's own Helicopters and aircraft that do not fall under the jurisdiction of the (U.S.) Airforce.

Murrithius
16-02-2009, 17:56
They are Navy. A good modern day example are British Chinooks. The Army often get into the thick of it via Chinook, but the 'Chooky's' themselves are R.A.F. aircraft.

Hymirl
16-02-2009, 18:05
That's how I interpet it. The (U.S.) Army uses it's own Helicopters and aircraft that do not fall under the jurisdiction of the (U.S.) Airforce.

The Imperium isn't the USA! ;)

The Guard the and the Navy are governed by the Codex Imperialis. Where Guilliman seperated the two apart for security reasons, the Navy has no tanks and the Guard don't get planes. Stops the navy from invading planets and the IG from moving out of where they're sent to... its also why the Sisters of Battle don't get planes and space ships available.

Valkeries are pretty much attached on semi-permant basis though to Imperial guard commands, like chinooks mentioned above. Plus its always possible that some planets follow more relaxed approaches towards giving regiments their own aircraft.. Elysians would probably be a good example. Although generally they're the exception rather than the rule.

Plus its worth pointing out that in the Navy colour schemes are as varied as they are in the guard. Different squadrons follow different practices for markings which can vary futher between the commanders beliefs and where they're assigned so things like nose art, and camo vary wildly.

laudarkul
16-02-2009, 18:10
Valkyrie, if we based on the IA3-Taros Campaign book, is a Guard vehicle. In the table of organization of the 23rd Elysian Drop Troop Regiment, Valkyries and Vultures are categorized as vehicles of this regiment (together with Sentinels, Trojans and Powerlifters). The only attached to this Regiment are 37 Techpriests of Adeptus Mechanicus.

Charax
16-02-2009, 19:01
Valkyrie, if we based on the IA3-Taros Campaign book, is a Guard vehicle. In the table of organization of the 23rd Elysian Drop Troop Regiment, Valkyries and Vultures are categorized as vehicles of this regiment (together with Sentinels, Trojans and Powerlifters). The only attached to this Regiment are 37 Techpriests of Adeptus Mechanicus.

If we go by the pretty pictures, yes

If, however, we bother to read IA3, it says:
Page 109: Permanently attached: Imperial Navy Tactical Wing
Page 264: Imperial Navy Tactical Wing (containing all the Elysian regiment's flyers - this is the same organisation chart laudarkul's referencing)
not to mention the fact that every unit entry for an aircraft lists their crew as Imperial Navy.

Reading: It's not just a place in Berkshire

precinctomega
16-02-2009, 19:53
This high quality piece of logical invective was brought to you by Charax.

Charax - because even natural selection needs a helping hand from time to time.

R.

EDIT - Woo, 3,000 posts, eh, Charax?

Kiras of the flame
16-02-2009, 20:22
mmm, Why don't you wait til the Codex comes out for this kind of stuff... maybe GW will actually tell us where it fits in Imperial code...

Or they'll probably nerf it up... I don't know really....

Charax
16-02-2009, 20:27
EDIT - Woo, 3,000 posts, eh, Charax?

Woo Indeed. I'm not entirely sure that's worthy of celebration or commiseration...

kanluwen
16-02-2009, 20:43
If we go by the pretty pictures, yes

If, however, we bother to read IA3, it says:
Page 109: Permanently attached: Imperial Navy Tactical Wing
Page 264: Imperial Navy Tactical Wing (containing all the Elysian regiment's flyers - this is the same organisation chart laudarkul's referencing)
not to mention the fact that every unit entry for an aircraft lists their crew as Imperial Navy.

Reading: It's not just a place in Berkshire

And page 269 stating that the Tactical Wing was assigned to the Stormtrooper units...

Charax
16-02-2009, 20:51
exactly - assigned to, not part of. They're Imperial Navy units acting in concert with Imperial Guard ones.

Lostanddamned
16-02-2009, 20:58
Reading: It's not just a place in Berkshire

Ouch, would you like some cream for that burn?

Brother_Chaplian Raimo
16-02-2009, 21:05
Reading: It's not just a place in Berkshire

Oh, snap. Charax, thou art the man.

Hellebore
16-02-2009, 22:35
Thunderbolts, Lightnings and marauders are purely atmospheric as well, and also are specifically Navy, with one exception (phantine IG)

Valks are also still technically Navy assets, but typically on permanent attachment to IG units.

Actually they can be used in vacuum. They just aren't as often as they are deployed in atmosphere.

I believe the IA has bit on each and their space capabilities, being used supplementally to starhawk bombers and furies.

Hellebore

Vaktathi
16-02-2009, 22:38
Actually they can be used in vacuum. They just aren't as often as they are deployed in atmosphere.

I believe the IA has bit on each and their space capabilities, being used supplementally to starhawk bombers and furies.

Hellebore

Oh can they? I thought they were atmospheric craft. I'll have to re-read the bit on them in IA then.

Hellebore
16-02-2009, 22:45
The thunderbolt's booster is used to get it out of atmosphere and back to a carrier in orbit iirc. I could be wrong though.

Hellebore

Cane
16-02-2009, 23:39
To the rest of us Americans: Games Workshop seemed to have built the foundations of the Imperial Guard/overall Imperium military around the British model.

A key difference between the US ARMY and the Brits is that British soldiers usually stay and serve in a single regiment in their tour of service/careers ` whereas their American counterpart is bounced around. The British Army has a lot of pride in its specific regiment's history and serve with the relatively same group of people throughout their tour of service.

Brother_Chaplian Raimo
17-02-2009, 00:16
The thunderbolt's booster is used to get it out of atmosphere and back to a carrier in orbit iirc. I could be wrong though.

Hellebore

Quite right. Most Imperial aircraft are at least trans-atmospheric, with Marauders (methinks) being capable of limited operation in vacuum.

Firaxin
17-02-2009, 02:15
Yeah, Marauders are the precursor to Starhawk bombers. Can't recall exactly when they made the switch, but its possible the space bombers used during the Heresy were Marauders.

Inquisitor Engel
17-02-2009, 04:11
Thunderbolts, Lightnings and marauders are purely atmospheric as well, and also are specifically Navy, with one exception (phantine IG)

Valks are also still technically Navy assets, but typically on permanent attachment to IG units.

Thunderbolts, Marauders and Lightnings are all featured in BSG as part of navy launchers. They're much more than just atmospheric fighters.

Jimbobjeff
17-02-2009, 07:27
Thunderbolts, Marauders and Lightnings are all featured in BSG as part of navy launchers. They're much more than just atmospheric fighters.

In bfg the navy uses fury interceptors, starhawk bombers and shark assault boats. The interceptors are the size of 747s! Although admittedly in Eisenhorn Lightenings are shown to be capable of operating in space.

AndrewGPaul
17-02-2009, 09:57
Marauders are capable of full operation in a vacuum; there was a short story in an issue of Inferno! that dealt with a Marauder squadron taking part in a strike against an Ork Rok (IIRC), launching from a navy cruiser.

Obviously, Starhawks are better at it, being much bigger, but they're not the only option. Perhaps you could think of 3 or 4 Marauders being the equivalent of a Starhawk.

Iracundus
17-02-2009, 11:37
Actually they can be used in vacuum. They just aren't as often as they are deployed in atmosphere.

I believe the IA has bit on each and their space capabilities, being used supplementally to starhawk bombers and furies.



Actually they aren't space fighters, even though they are capable of boosting up to space.


As well as its twin jet engines, the Thunderbolt is also equipped with a rocket booster. Tthis can be engaged to give the fighter limited operational capability in space. This is only used for transport and deployment, not for combat, and Thunderbolts are not true 'star-fighters', this role is left to Imperial Furies. The rocket engine allows a Thunderbolt to deploy from a spaceship in low planetary orbit into the atmosphere, and can be engaged once the aircraft has reached its atmospheric ceiling to boost the fighter back to the waiting mothership. p. 34 Aeronautica Imperialis

laudarkul
17-02-2009, 16:17
If, however, we bother to read IA3, it says:
Reading: It's not just a place in Berkshire

Yap...Very nice language...
I read again(since I have the book and I like it...) your pertinent and very well said comments...And I hope that you do not mind if I keep my first statement...
I still think that Imperial Navy Tactical Wing attached to the Elysians have only 6x3=18Valkyries and 3x2=6 Vultures. The rest of the flyers belongs to the IG Regiment. And I saw also the small "see below-does not include Valkyries".
Anyway I respect your way of thinking...This also denote a good education.

Raellos
17-02-2009, 17:42
I imagine all of the imperial ships are capable of operating in space, just for how long is debatable. After all, it'd be a bit naff if they had to park them on the surface from another vessel before they could begin to give ground support.

As for the original question, I can only really guess, I'm afraid.

sroblin
17-02-2009, 19:11
A few random thoughts:

Chinooks are part of the RAF, yes, but aren't attack helicopters (possibly even medium transports) part of the British army?

Similarily, its possible that VTOL aircraft are operated by both branches, or split according to function. Speaking of Chinooks, the Gaunt's Ghosts novel Only in Death featured a heavy transport called a 'Destrier' which might fill a similar funciton in the Imperial Navy/Guard.

chaos0xomega
17-02-2009, 21:58
And page 269 stating that the Tactical Wing was assigned to the Stormtrooper units...

A USAF captain (O-3 captain, not the Navy O-6 if any of that means anything to you) was assigned to an army infantry unit as part of a Public Relations Team. Doesn't mean he was part of the army, he still reported up a purely Air Force chain of command, it just meant that he worked daily with the army, supporting an army mission, for the army.

And all Imperial aircraft are vacuum capable to some extent. As most Imperial forces are deployed from orbit when arriving at a planet, that would be the most efficient way of doing things. Then again, when has the Imperium ever done anything efficiently...


A key difference between the US ARMY and the Brits is that British soldiers usually stay and serve in a single regiment in their tour of service/careers ` whereas their American counterpart is bounced around. The British Army has a lot of pride in its specific regiment's history and serve with the relatively same group of people throughout their tour of service.

Agreed. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages. For storytelling purposes its probably better that they went with the British model.


The interceptors are the size of 747s! Although admittedly in Eisenhorn Lightenings are shown to be capable of operating in space.

Errmmm.... No? Where did that tidbit come from? I've seen images of the fury before, it is nowhere near the size of a 747. Unless you're going by the BFG model. If thats the case simple explanation: Sliding scale. All BFG vessels of a similar size class share a common scale. Ships of differing size classes do not. Therefore all escorts are ins cale with escorts, ordnance with ordnance, and cruisers with cruisers. However, escorts are not in scale with cruisers, nor are either of them in scale with ordnance.


I still think that Imperial Navy Tactical Wing attached to the Elysians have only 6x3=18Valkyries and 3x2=6 Vultures. The rest of the flyers belongs to the IG Regiment. And I saw also the small "see below-does not include Valkyries".

A "Wing" in the USAF (and indeed US military in general) is usually an entire base. 18 Valkyries and 6 Vultures would hardly comprise a wing in the modern definition. A USAF fighter squadron is about 20 fighters, with there usually being 3-10 squadrons in a group, and 2+ groups in a wing. Thats easily over 120 fighters in a wing. Yes Valks and Vultures are a bit heavier than a fighter (well the valks anyway...) but the same rationale still applies. PLUS GW has a tendency to exaggerate sizes (a typical IG regiment would be an entire Divison/Army Group/Army in real world terms....)

AndrewGPaul
17-02-2009, 22:28
Actually they aren't space fighters, even though they are capable of boosting up to space.

Possibly not Thunderbolts, although I'm sure I've seen material contradicting Imperial Armour 1 and Aeronautica Imperialis. In any case, IA1 says on page 229 of the maruader, "They are often based on orbiting spacecraft and can operate in the vacuum of space".


Errmmm.... No? Where did that tidbit come from? I've seen images of the fury before, it is nowhere near the size of a 747. Unless you're going by the BFG model. If thats the case simple explanation: Sliding scale. All BFG vessels of a similar size class share a common scale. Ships of differing size classes do not. Therefore all escorts are ins cale with escorts, ordnance with ordnance, and cruisers with cruisers. However, escorts are not in scale with cruisers, nor are either of them in scale with ordnance.

Ordnance tokens aren't in scale with each other; compare Dreadclaws and Thunderbolts, for example.

Having said that, First And Only gives us the Faustus-class Interceptor, 100 paces long (i.e., probably 100 yards, or 90 metres. That puts an interceptor-class ship at 5 times the length of a Marauder. I'm reaching here, but it's probable that a Fury is of a similar size, and a Starhawk is even bigger - a little less than twice as long, if the pictures on page 115 of the BFG rulebook are in scale with each other.

For comparison, a Boeing 747 is only 70 metres long. The longest aircraft in the world is the Antonov An-225, at 84 metres long. A Starhawk bomber may well be twice as long as that. That's comparable to a Corellian Cr90 corvette, and substantially longer than a Klingon Bird-of-Prey or the USS Defiant.

madprophet
17-02-2009, 23:37
One could always go with the typical GW answer...

Are Valks and Vultures fielded by the Navy or the Guard? YES!

SOME guard regiments have close support air assets (akin to army aviation in the modern US military) but typically air assets are the forte of the Navy (just as the fact that most air operations are handled for the USA by the USAF doesn't change the fact that the USA, USN and USMC all operate some air craft such as Marine fighter wings, Naval Air Wings - both land based and carrier based - and army close support aircraft).

Just as the Guard has some limited air assets, the Navy has limited ground attack ability in the form of naval landing parties aka Naval Infantry. However, Guard aviation is insufficient to support interplanetary let alone interstellar transport - it can operate some close support and battlefield insertion/extraction missions but that's about it. Likewise, Naval infantry is capable of light raider or security duties but isn't up to the task of a planetary invasion (even on a small scale). The existence of these anomalous forces doesn't change the general rule that the Navy does the flying and the Guard does the dying (on the ground).

In other words, if you want to include some light air assets in your Guard force, you won't do much violence to the fluff. Likewise, if you want to play a Kill Team mission based on Naval Stormtroopers raiding a Xenos or Traitor target, it isn't outside the realm of the plausible.

As in all things, the game is what you make of it. You can't take too seriously a setting dreamed up by some overgrown British schoolboys with unresolved Catholic School issues combined with an utter lack of real world military experience. :-)

Inquisitor Engel
18-02-2009, 00:50
In bfg the navy uses fury interceptors, starhawk bombers and shark assault boats. The interceptors are the size of 747s! Although admittedly in Eisenhorn Lightenings are shown to be capable of operating in space.

My bad - it's been a while since I read the rulebook.... unfortunately.

Iracundus
18-02-2009, 04:40
Possibly not Thunderbolts, although I'm sure I've seen material contradicting Imperial Armour 1 and Aeronautica Imperialis. In any case, IA1 says on page 229 of the maruader, "They are often based on orbiting spacecraft and can operate in the vacuum of space".


Being based on an orbiting spacecraft and being able to deploy into atmosphere from orbit is not the same as being a space fighter. Being able to operate in the vacuum of space means the craft is airtight and able to do some basic movement, without meaning it can necessarily perform a true space fighter's role. Both Thunderbolts and Marauders are capable of deploying from space to attack ground targets, but the role of deep space interceptors and space bombers are filled by the Furies and Starhawks respectively.

As further evidence, we have the Dictator class's entry in the BFG rulebook:



Dictator class cruisers are built around Lunar class hulls, with the lance decks entirely rebuilt into launch bays for attack craft. This stop-gap measure was originally undertaken as a simple method of delivering large numbers of atmospheric craft, like the Thunderbolt fighter and Marauder bomber, to low orbit, for ground support operations. However, successive upgrades to the Dictator's communications and detection systems expanded its capabilities for launching long-range strikes against ships in deep space. They were increasingly equipped with Fury class deep space fighters and Starhawk bombers... p. 112, BFG rulebook

The Thunderbolt and Marauder are referred to explicitly as atmospheric craft for ground operations and the difference emphasized between them and the craft used for deep space opreations.

AndrewGPaul
18-02-2009, 07:18
Being based on an orbiting spacecraft and being able to deploy into atmosphere from orbit is not the same as being a space fighter. Being able to operate in the vacuum of space means the craft is airtight and able to do some basic movement, without meaning it can necessarily perform a true space fighter's role. Both Thunderbolts and Marauders are capable of deploying from space to attack ground targets, but the role of deep space interceptors and space bombers are filled by the Furies and Starhawks respectively.

As further evidence, we have the Dictator class's entry in the BFG rulebook:



The Thunderbolt and Marauder are referred to explicitly as atmospheric craft for ground operations and the difference emphasized between them and the craft used for deep space opreations.

Like I said, one story in Inferno featured a Marauder squadron attacking an Ork hulk, in space. Marauders, at least, can do both.

Also, the IA1 note on marauders "operating in space" is different to that of Thunderbolts, which can only be deployed from/return to orbit.

Jimbobjeff
18-02-2009, 09:25
I'm not sure where I read the bit about 747 sized furies now that you mention it, I might be wrong. It does sort of make sense though, starships are big therefore the bombers that attack them must be big in order to cary enough firepower to damage them, this means that the fighters need to be big in order to carry enough firepower to hurt the bombers.

precinctomega
18-02-2009, 15:33
I'm not sure where I read the bit about 747 sized furies now that you mention it, I might be wrong.

That was Andy Chambers discussing the development of Battlefleet Gothic in White Dwarf.

R.

GeneralDisaster
18-02-2009, 19:06
It is either

A. A vehicle of the Mechanicus
B. A flying toaster.

SonofUltramar
18-02-2009, 20:53
All aircraft are the preserve of the Imperial Navy by default, if aircraft are needed by IG units they are either attached on an ad hoc or permanat basis.

Imperial Guard do not have aircraft as standard, the only (and I mean one and only in the background to date) exception were the Phantine Imperial Guard who due to their homeworld has no ground forces and they are in fact equipped with Thunderbolts or Lightnings and this has been remarked as a very rare exception due to their natural skills as pilots.

Gen.Steiner
21-02-2009, 01:04
It's a Navy vehicle; the Guard do not use flyers of any kind unless they're crewed by Navy personnel. Clear-cut and case closed!

Phantine excepted... :rolleyes:

Wolflord Havoc
21-02-2009, 01:38
If we go by the pretty pictures, yes

If, however, we bother to read IA3, it says:
Page 109: Permanently attached: Imperial Navy Tactical Wing
Page 264: Imperial Navy Tactical Wing (containing all the Elysian regiment's flyers - this is the same organisation chart laudarkul's referencing)
not to mention the fact that every unit entry for an aircraft lists their crew as Imperial Navy.

Reading: It's not just a place in Berkshire

Nope over a dozen of them in the State (I just Wiki Fu'd that - it wasn't something I knew!)

Charax - time for some 'winding in of ones neck' exercises as um your wrong.

The 'attached' Imp. Navy 71st Tactical Wing only comprises 18 Valkyries and 6 Vultures. This I think you will agree is not enough lift capacity to grant a 23rd Elysian the title of 'Drop Regiment'?

The 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment has 182 Valkyries and 30 Vultures as part of 'its' TOE and not the Imp. Navys 71st Tactical Wing! Now while I grant you that these A/C might very well be Navy supplied and manned, the TOE makes no mention of them - so I have to conclude that they are integral to the Rgt and not the Navy.

These A/C are capable of lifting half the Rgt in one go. The 71st is in addition to these A/C.

So in answer to the OPs question - The Valkyrie while generally issued to Imp. Navy Tactical Wings can be found in large numbers with specialised 'Air Mobile/Drop' Guard Rgts such as the 23rd Elysian Rgt.

So it can be used by both.

Bento
21-02-2009, 05:56
It's probably worth pointing out that the Guard can have it's aircraft without violating the spirit of the separation of the military. Having access to Valkyries isn't going to get a regimental commander the capability to invade multiple planets, so in the grand scheme of things they're small beans.

Now of course, from my limited understanding of military bureaucracies, much like any other bureaucracies, small beans are EXACTLY the kind of thing they'll love to quibble about.

23rd elysian
21-02-2009, 16:29
TBH this whole argument is pretty pointless. Yes in the majority of cases thunderbolts, lightnings, valks and the like are crewed by the Imperial Navy.

Are there exceptions? Yes there are:
Phantine excepted... :rolleyes:

Why are there exceptions? Because the Imperial war machine is so vast that there is almost limitless potential for interesting diversities that occur for an equally limitless amount of different reasons. (e.g. The Phantine's living on a 'planet' with not solid mass :rolleyes:).

Fact: The average valkyrie wing is most likely to be piloted by the navy and attached to the IG for X period of time.

Fact: There are definitely exceptions to this rule, although they are probably few and far between. If you want IG valkyries make up some interesting and original fluff for it...

Case closed. ;)

Laser guided fanatic
21-02-2009, 16:33
Charax there is no place called Reading (Reed-ing) in Berkshire it's called Reading (Red-ing).

precinctomega
21-02-2009, 18:29
Charax there is no place called Reading (Reed-ing) in Berkshire it's called Reading (Red-ing).

I am literally lost for words at the extent to which some people feel moved to offer corrections in exchanges that are clearly so far above their heads that it can only have been the sonic boom of passing intellect that attracted their attention in the first place.

R.

Hellebore
21-02-2009, 21:37
I am literally lost for words at the extent to which some people feel moved to offer corrections in exchanges that are clearly so far above their heads that it can only have been the sonic boom of passing intellect that attracted their attention in the first place.

R.

I don't know, I thought it was kinda funny.


Hellebore

Gloom
21-02-2009, 23:50
Errmmm.... No? Where did that tidbit come from? I've seen images of the fury before, it is nowhere near the size of a 747. Unless you're going by the BFG model. If thats the case simple explanation: Sliding scale. All BFG vessels of a similar size class share a common scale. Ships of differing size classes do not. Therefore all escorts are ins cale with escorts, ordnance with ordnance, and cruisers with cruisers. However, escorts are not in scale with cruisers, nor are either of them in scale with ordnance.

Older BFG fluff had them sized like, current doesnt. There were even pictures but I cant remember if it was in a magazine or book.

Dogface
22-02-2009, 09:41
I don't think the Phantine are unique personally, there has to be more than one world with a geography not conductive to the training and founding of ground forces.

Gen.Steiner
22-02-2009, 13:02
Even then they would provide, say, urban warfare specialists, or Guardsmen accustomed to operating under ammonia seas or - gasp - their tithe means that they don't provide any Guardsmen at all.

grissom2006
22-02-2009, 13:15
IA depicts them in both naval and IG colours so i'd say it's a vehicle of both forces and i guess also very much depends on the forces in question for IG. elysian drop troops always spring to mind of world of aircraft using people and would rightly be there vehicle of operation choice and certainly wouldn't come under cotrol of the navy.

RichBlake
22-02-2009, 17:35
Why do people keep comparing the Guard to the US military? Considering that both the Guard and the Navy are based on the UK military....

NotElite
22-02-2009, 17:46
Dang it, I can't find the reference, but I seem to remember reading that the Elysians were special because they got away with having a sizable flying element, which goes against what is normally allowed. They et away with it because they are specialized and relatively small.

The Imperium is all about control. If a General decides to get uppity, he can't go anywhere because the Navy controls the transports.

The Navy wants a blockade? Fine, they have no ground army (since the Imperial Navy lacks Marines) and they won't have ammo soon since that is controlled by the Munitorium.

What if the Munitorium decides they want to take over? Well, they got no one to fight with...

Hence why the Mechanus and Astartes are always under such scrutiny, they have munitions, naval assets and ground troops.

Anyway, that is a bit of a sidebar, but to back to the original question... The Navy should own the Valks, but the new Codex might add in an Elysian-style exception...

What should my name be?
23-02-2009, 15:08
like all 40K air support, its imperial navy, but is usually attached to IG regiments

Nero
23-02-2009, 16:26
Hence why the Mecanus and Astartes are always under such scrutiny, they have munitions, naval assets and ground troops.

Yeah, but the average Astartes' navy, to put it delicately, sucks major ass. They're vastly outnumbered by the Imperial Navy for one, and a Battle Barge is no match for most Navy battleships anyway, lacking as it does in the shielding and lance weaponry departments.

The Mechanicus... are they technically part of the Imperium? Or do they still count as allies to the Imperium, as they did during the Great Crusade?

SisterMordagg
25-02-2009, 03:39
I get the feeling it's meant as a Navy force occasionally acquired or gained by the Guard.
40k is all about setting rules and then poking holes in them wide enough to drive a tank with four guns and guy with a sword on top through.


Why do people keep comparing the Guard to the US military? Considering that both the Guard and the Navy are based on the UK military....

Because many people on the site are Americans and are used to dealing with their own military.

That and they kicked your butts.

AndrewGPaul
25-02-2009, 07:27
Because many people on the site are Americans and are used to dealing with their own military.

That and they kicked your butts.

Last time it came to that, it was a draw, and we burned your capital. :p

Wolflord Havoc
25-02-2009, 19:59
Now now gentlemen

Remember blood is thicker than water!

RusVal
25-02-2009, 22:19
Besides, I can think of one IG regiment that might work like the US military: the Merican House Regiment of Terra.
And Terran regiments in general might be another exception to the "no flyers" rule, considering how hypocritical the Imperium can be with some things. ;)

Gloom
06-03-2009, 18:09
Yeah, but the average Astartes' navy, to put it delicately, sucks major ass. They're vastly outnumbered by the Imperial Navy for one, and a Battle Barge is no match for most Navy battleships anyway, lacking as it does in the shielding and lance weaponry departments.

You have never played Battlefleet Gothic have you?

The entire battlefleet gothic, during the heaviest warfare the sector had seen since ages past, had less an 70 ships in it, generally never operating in groups large than 10, because they have tens of thousands of lightyears to protect, they are streched thin as hell.

Battle Barges and Strike Cruisers are stupidly powerful to the point some people wont face you if you play a pure marine force. Compaired to Imperial Navy analoges their ships are playing on God Mode.

zeep
06-03-2009, 21:18
Last time it came to that, it was a draw, and we burned your capital. :p

Hell, most americans want to burn the capital. In the school yard of international affairs, Australia, Canada, America, and Britian have always been more a dysfunctional family then most. We may fight, but god help you if you pick on one. (or we start it and blame it on you... etc) ;)

Gen.Steiner
06-03-2009, 21:35
It is my strong belief that Terran Guard/PDF Regiments have access to grav-bikes, landspeeders, Land Raiders, graviton guns, and all manner of wonderful weapons not seen since the Dark Age of Technology...!