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Eternus
17-02-2009, 10:32
I've had a brain wave!

After watching Narnia, Prince Caspian, and having seen the 1st film lots of times as well, I suddenly felt inspired to consider the possiblility of creating a Centaur army, of the type you see in the Chronicles of Narnia films.

What do you think of that? I would need to find a suitable torso and horse to fit, and style the armour and weapons etc, but as a big project I think it would be cool. I would also need to decide where in the Warhammer world they could fit in. I may decide that there are a very old race who come from somewhere far to the East, south of Cathay, and are migrating due to the rise of some nameless evil. They could even be distantly related to the Dragon Ogres. Just throwing some ideas around at the moment.

I have considered the basic stats for a standard Centaur soldier:

M 8
WS 4
BS 3
Str 3
T 3
W 1
I 4
A 1
Ld 8

I did consider making them Str 4, but this might be a bit much for a basic Centaur - maybe for an elite unit? Also, I think some special rules might give them some character:

Always gain +1 Str on the charge, whatever weapons they have, due to their speed.

+1 Attack on the charge, to represent their flailing hooves and leaping into combat, as well as their hand held weapons, but armour saves reduced by 1 to represent them being more exposed when rearing or leaping up.

Wear a combination of Armour and Barding, which for a basic would be Centaur Armour + Barding for a 5+ save which can be improved with a shield and hand weapon combo in the normal way.

Enemy Rank Bonuses are reduced by 1 when fighting Centaurs, as the Centaur can use it's bulk and co-ordinate it's attack with it's size in a way that a seperate rider and horse could never do, so they can disrupt the enemy formation enough to reduce the effect of the enemy ranks.

I haven't considered a points cost yet, but any thoughts?

Neknoh
17-02-2009, 10:39
Explain them as Beastmen not devoted to the Dark Gods but that have been enlightened by a scholar of the empire.

Use rules for Wood Elves perhaps? Glade Riders and Wild Riders allong with forest spirits could work, it would also give you bows. Dark and High Elves are both viable options as well.

Eternus
17-02-2009, 10:43
Explain them as Beastmen not devoted to the Dark Gods but that have been enlightened by a scholar of the empire.

Use rules for Wood Elves perhaps? Glade Riders and Wild Riders allong with forest spirits could work, it would also give you bows. Dark and High Elves are both viable options as well.


I was planning a whole army list and background as a new race. Though elements of the Wood Elf list could be good, as far as the connection with nature goes. I wanted to prtray them in the same way as the Narnian Centaurs - proud martial tradition and solid regiments rather than skirmish style, but definitely like the idea of bow armed Centaurs as fast cavalry/missile troops. Also, really big great swords, like the Cenaturs in the films.

Definitely want them to be much older than the races of men though.

Arguleon-veq
17-02-2009, 13:05
There are/were Centaurs on Albion, it mentions them in a few fluff pieces. Nothing about them, it just mentions they are there.

Not sure how they would be doing now after t he whole Dark Shadows thing and a big chunk of the Island becoming Jungle.

If you want models, check out Heresy Miniatures, they do a Fantastic Centaur with lots of weapon options IIRC at a reasonable price.

Eternus
17-02-2009, 13:12
There are/were Centaurs on Albion, it mentions them in a few fluff pieces. Nothing about them, it just mentions they are there.

Not sure how they would be doing now after t he whole Dark Shadows thing and a big chunk of the Island becoming Jungle.

If you want models, check out Heresy Miniatures, they do a Fantastic Centaur with lots of weapon options IIRC at a reasonable price.

Cool - that could give me an established grounding in the background - I'll take a look at the minis.

Thanks.

Sleazy
17-02-2009, 13:37
GW used to do centaurs. I have a marauder centaur and some chaos centaurs.

IIRC they were part of the wood elf line at one time too.

Eternus
17-02-2009, 13:46
GW used to do centaurs. I have a marauder centaur and some chaos centaurs.

IIRC they were part of the wood elf line at one time too.

So it could be feasible to do an Ogre Kingdoms number on them then? Take a race that used to just fit into another list and make it an army in it's own right.

I quite like the idea of them being the Forces of Order balance against the Dragon Ogres.

Harwammer
17-02-2009, 13:54
The WoC book mentions centaurs.

Braad
17-02-2009, 14:05
For conversion material, I would suggest wood elves, especially the horses, with regard to the GW line.

You could do: light armour and light barding: 5+ AS, and heavy armour and heavy barding: 3+ AS but -1 Movement, with the first option for most basics, and the second for characters and elites.

If you post a more comprehensive armylist later on, I'll give some comments on it.

King Vyper
17-02-2009, 14:18
This seems pretty straight forward.

Write out an all mounted wood elf army. Use Centaur models to represent.

Elazar The Glorified
17-02-2009, 14:28
You could always use WOC rules until you have your own rules made up. Marauder Horsemen to represent your core centaur warriors then you have the likes of Knights to represent the Centaur nobles maybe and Dragon Ogres could be particularly brutish Centaurs or Centaurs with Ogre blood maybe... or just those Centaurs you want with greatswords... Just a few ideas. Then you just need to think up some fluff for the marks which shouldn't be too difficult seeing as they now have a pretty generic effect. Slaanesh ItP for battle hardened, frenzy has so many explanations it's untrue. Nurgle could be to represent their speed/agility making it harder to hit them and similar could be said of the Tzeentch ward save.

fastcarfreak
17-02-2009, 15:09
I rather like the idea of an all centaur army. Like others have said, you could use either chaos marauder horsement, or a mounted woodelves list. Or you could do a hybrid of the two. Use glade riders for the basic troops and chaos marauders for the heavier troops. Wild riders would also make a great representation of what a centaur would perform like.

Braad
17-02-2009, 16:08
Its weird how some people always seem to want to kill any bit of inspiration that goes out of the official books. To me it seems quite obvious from the opening post that he wants to write his own ruleset, and about half of the replies start with someone telling that he should make a counts-as army using an official list instead...

Stuffburger
17-02-2009, 17:44
I like the idea of an all centaur army, but maybe give them a footslogger of some type (like gnoblars for OK) to help give the army some depth? Forest gnomes, spirits, pixies as a flying swarm maybe would be fun.

Gnomes riding a centaur, all with bows would make an interesting unit with a longbow for the centaur and 1-2 shortbows for the rider(s). Pumps out a lot of fire, but could be slower to represent the riders.

For an eastern european/jewish folklore theme you could model the centaurs like hussars, and have golems statted like trolls or something as a monster.

For a start you once you have one unit done you could use it as DoW to see how balanced it is instead of running the whole thing as paperhammer. And I would love to see some female centaurs as something besides casters... the warhammer world needs more women, in game and in players...

Just throwing out suggestions, hope something helps.

w3rm
17-02-2009, 21:03
Now I'm assuming you DON"T want to make them chaos dwarf bull centaurs? Even if not Chaos Dwarfs Online( www.chaos-dwarfs.com) pretty good conversions of centaurs. They recommend Rohan Horses. I'm surprised Sleazy didn't mention it.....

Ethlorien
17-02-2009, 22:21
I love this idea. I must say, an all mounted Wood Elf army does sound like a pretty straight forward plan - though I'm always one for writting up rules too. Have fun!

Bregalad
17-02-2009, 23:13
Traditionally, Centaurs in most Fantasy settings belong into the woods allied to elves -> Wood Elves.
So having the lighly armoured ones as Glade Riders and the heavily armoured ones as wild hunt is perfect from rules and background.
There are so many good centaur models (Reaper, Rackham, Shadowforge http://www.battlefield-berlin.de/shop/index.php?list=WG296 Dark Sword http://www.battlefield-berlin.de/shop/index.php?cat=WG1168&product=DSM1105 , etc) plus GW's Centigors, that there is really no need to make conversions.

Gabacho Mk.II
17-02-2009, 23:44
I've had a brain wave!

I would also need to decide where in the Warhammer world they could fit in. I may decide that there are a very old race who come from somewhere far to the East, south of Cathay, and are migrating due to the rise of some nameless evil. They could even be distantly related to the Dragon Ogres. Just throwing some ideas around at the moment.

....but any thoughts?



Well, this would be a nice mix for WFB. [a much-needed additional "good army"? Yes!!!]




Let's see, one of the three following regions I could see:

>> The lands west of Arnhem, in the 'New World'
>> Albion [the best avenue for having the Centaurs interact with the rest of WFB]
>> Either the northern steppes of the Kingdoms of Ind, or the large middle isle that lies between the Lost Isles and Nippon (where Tor Elithis is located on)
[[this could also be worked into the background fluff easily, as the Centaurs are approached and befriended by the High Elves and come to an defense agreement with those living in the region against the incursions of Dark Elves and Nippon... assuming you do wish to make the Centaurs a "good race"]]



Some ideas/

Kronos
17-02-2009, 23:54
Best conversions I've found on chaos dwarf online are these, theyre a kit bash of boars with horse legs, black orc torsos and ogre heads, and of course a healthy dose f gs.

http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3509&page=2

edit if link doesn't work it's in the conversion section of their forums under the bull centaur conversions, one of the last ones i believe.

guillaume
18-02-2009, 00:03
Its weird how some people always seem to want to kill any bit of inspiration that goes out of the official books. To me it seems quite obvious from the opening post that he wants to write his own ruleset, and about half of the replies start with someone telling that he should make a counts-as army using an official list instead...

That is because every dick and harry can come up with new rules (no offense to Eternus), but it is very hard to get a balanced armylist that everyone agrees with (i think warseer is a shinning example of this problem)

Also, you are far more likely to get a game with your centaur army if they arecount as, because your opponent knows what is facing, whereas fan-based armies, have not been playtested and your opponent has no idea what weapons or special rules you have for them.

For creativity sakes, I think centaur based army would be fun.

Now what eternus CAN do, is come up with his own army book, make models, and offer his opponent the choice between either playing his own rules, or using count as. I imagine that most players will choose the count as, but perhaps some of the more adventurous or friendly players may give the new rules a go.

Cypher, the Emperor
18-02-2009, 00:36
As some inspiration, Jeffrey Macleod did a pretty cool Narnian Woodelf list: http://www.pbase.com/asterion/narnian_wood_elf_army

Sleazy
18-02-2009, 08:37
I have a centaur unit in my beasts army as I dont like the centigor minis.

Its mainly made of Rackhams excellent celtic centaurs (Kelts I think they call them).

Will post a photo if you're interested.

ChaosVC
18-02-2009, 09:12
Hi Eternus,

Just me thinking, if you want a fluff about them coming to the old world from somewhere near Cathay, it would be best from north, cos then you can say they are driven west by the presure of the normadic chaos worshipping hungs and sandwich between the ever suspicious Cathayans Emperor. Because this is pretty much what happen historically to a number of normadic tribes in our real word. Pretty cool huh?!

Of where they should settle in the empire, maybe near kislev? Or some open plains grass land. Beside Loren?

About making them strenght 4 for core is ok IMO since they are larger than normal human in general, by all means they are both man and horse.

How about thinking how they conduct their warefare, are they normadic mongol like? Cathayan influenced style? Or your own fantasy semi europen style with a varity of mythological creatures helping them? Anything that comes into mind. Then its time to start listing what is available in the core/special and rare choices.

I pretty much like your idea and would like to know what you will be doing for them. ;)

Eternus
18-02-2009, 11:05
Hi Eternus,

Just me thinking, if you want a fluff about them coming to the old world from somewhere near Cathay, it would be best from north, cos then you can say they are driven west by the presure of the normadic chaos worshipping hungs and sandwich between the ever suspicious Cathayans Emperor. Because this is pretty much what happen historically to a number of normadic tribes in our real word. Pretty cool huh?!

Of where they should settle in the empire, maybe near kislev? Or some open plains grass land. Beside Loren?

About making them strenght 4 for core is ok IMO since they are larger than normal human in general, by all means they are both man and horse.

How about thinking how they conduct their warefare, are they normadic mongol like? Cathayan influenced style? Or your own fantasy semi europen style with a varity of mythological creatures helping them? Anything that comes into mind. Then its time to start listing what is available in the core/special and rare choices.

I pretty much like your idea and would like to know what you will be doing for them. ;)

I like this suggestion for how they could come to the Old World, and a lot of GW fluff is based very loosely on real world events anyway.

Have been thinking about possible army list entries:


Centaur Lords/Heros:
Nobles, maybe a King

Centaur Scholar or Sorceress -

Core:
Basic Centaurs, work similar to mid range cavalry of other armies

Longbow armed Centaurs, possibly Skirmishing, Female would be good

I want a unit on foot, some kind of breed of forest Gnome or something, but haven't decided yet.

Maybe a Boar unit

Special:

Great Eagles

Bears

Rare:

Unicorns - which will have several innate magical abilities and maybe fulfill the magical role

Hypogryphs

I'll be taking the line that the Centaurs are a nobel race of old, with a fierce martial tradition, but have been in decline since the collapse of the polar gates and the coming of Chaos. They are from the ancient forests and plains north of Cathay, and have steadily been pushed south by the Northmen of that region.

Centaurs are intelligent rather than bestial, and are close to nature, but not like the Wood Elves - they are in balance and in tune with nature, rather than part of it like Dryads and stuff. They have an affinity with the 'good' beasts, especially magical ones, like Bears, Unicorns, Hypogryphs etc, but hate the 'evil' creatures like Trolls and Beastmen. They hate the Beasts of Chaos especially, because they are not in any way tainted and hate any resemblance between them and these foul creatures.

Centaurs are a 'good' race, though cautious and suspicious, but bound by their martial pride.

On the battlefield, they should be fast, and have special rules to reflect that they are far more controlled and co-ordinated than any rider and horse could ever be. The army will have blocks of lightly armoured centaurs as the main bulk, with bow armed skirmishers/fast cavalry to support them, and hard ass armoured elite with various weapon options.

The beasts that accompany the army have long standing relationships between their races and the centaurs. The Unicorns are kindred spirits, but fay and rare, the bears are noble and fierce, and would be cool on the battlefield, maybe singly or in units of up to 3? The Hypogryhs would give real speed and a flying monster, as well as the Great Eagles.

I like the idea of the monsters not having any kind of rider, but not being treated like monsters of the old world - they are intelligent, like the Narnian creatures. But I have to draw the line at ninja badgers!

The appearance of the Centaurs should be quite human for the top half, maybe Marauders, and a plain horse for the bottom half. They should wear segmented half armour, or similar, maybe scale armour.

The Centaur greatbow should be strength 4 and maybe armour piercing - Cenaturs are tall, and can wield a bigger bow than foot or mounted archers of other races.

Any comments so far?

Captain prophet
18-02-2009, 11:40
hey a friend and i have been writing a centaur army book nice ideas might have to steal the bear thing been needing a 4th special choice lol oh might i suggest themimg different units with different elements of nature gives for lots of different elite units eg one for fire, air, water and earth :). oh and my friend and i have found that giving regular centuars a sling option really helps to get enough shooting into the list

Eternus
18-02-2009, 12:16
hey a friend and i have been writing a centaur army book nice ideas might have to steal the bear thing been needing a 4th special choice lol oh might i suggest themimg different units with different elements of nature gives for lots of different elite units eg one for fire, air, water and earth :). oh and my friend and i have found that giving regular centuars a sling option really helps to get enough shooting into the list

Greetings friend!

I did consider javelins as an option for the basic Centaurs, or maybe just for a scouting type unit?

I'd like to know what kind of stuff you have come up with, especially to keep the number and types of units varied, and what kind of core units you thought of?

Captain prophet
18-02-2009, 12:44
Greetings friend!

I did consider javelins as an option for the basic Centaurs, or maybe just for a scouting type unit?

I'd like to know what kind of stuff you have come up with, especially to keep the number and types of units varied, and what kind of core units you thought of?


um we got three, regular centaurs (which funnily enough have the same stat line as yours cept thier M9) with spear hand weapon and light armour and barding a scout unit made up from younger centaurs (think like pistoliers) with no barding but they have bows and are fast cav and finally an all female unit that has a crossbows instead of the spear. and im thinking of including a s4 centaur unit thats core if you take our version of a close combat hero :evilgrin:

Eternus
18-02-2009, 12:59
I was thinking of making them M9, just to give them an edge and reiforce that running to them is as natural as a man on foot, rather than a horse and rider, where the horse has to be directed and controlled.

I wonder whether Lord Of The Rings Dwarves or even Halflings might make good Forest Gnomes?

Niibl
18-02-2009, 13:29
Centaurs have accompanied warhammer for quite some time and suffered a lot.
In the beginning they were proud scolars living alongside northern horsemen, then turned into chaos centaurs, then became drunkard chaos centaurs and ended up as centigors.
Poor things.

Eternus
18-02-2009, 13:48
Centaurs have accompanied warhammer for quite some time and suffered a lot.
In the beginning they were proud scolars living alongside northern horsemen, then turned into chaos centaurs, then became drunkard chaos centaurs and ended up as centigors.
Poor things.

Cool. So these could be Centaurs from far to the east that weren't corrupted by Chaos in the same way as Dwarves and Elves were not tainted as their cousins were?