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Cythus
19-02-2009, 19:04
basically, my idea is that a group of Eldar see that the emperor is the only thing holding back countless deamons and what to protect/fight for him. Could they be turned into SM? what would happen if they were turned into SM? would they be like SM but faster and get more focus on one specific skill?

Radium
19-02-2009, 19:08
I don't think the Eldar physique would survive the transformation. So basically, the Eldar in question would die somewhere along the line.

If they could make it, I don't think it'd be what they'd want. They lose a great deal of their natural speed in power armour. If you could get them to do it, you''d have some crazy powerful Eldar. Now to power the armour with soulstones...

SimonL
19-02-2009, 19:09
NO never! The whole human supremacist attitude sorta prevents it lol. Plus alien biology doesn't jive with SM organ implants.

Devil Tree
19-02-2009, 19:16
Since they have entirely different biology’s, following different evolutionary paths in complete isolation from each other, I would say no. At the cellular level, Eldar are nothing like humans they just have a similar appearance

You’d have better luck turning a squirrel into a Space Marine.

Kyrios
19-02-2009, 19:25
1) SM's shoot eldar on sight, I don't think they will have time to explain that they like the Emperor.
2) If they talked really fast, they wouldn't be belived anyway.
3) If they were, they would die during the transformation.

GeneralDisaster
19-02-2009, 19:36
I agree, but if they survived, think Grey Knights without so much power, better psyking, and more skill.

PapaDoc
19-02-2009, 19:45
Eldar are not bad ass enough to become space marines. You should know this.

Valharik
19-02-2009, 20:01
Not FAT ass enough, rather.

And not enough dumb to want to serve a living corpse who leads an inferior race. :D

ctsteel
19-02-2009, 20:02
Eldar are far too arrogant and assured of their own racial superiority to demean themselves by pledging allegiance to the monkeigh, nor would they sully their own bodies with 'inferior' alien implants.

Should a group of them decide to support/protect the emperor, they would likely do it as they do now, from the shadows, manipulating other elements of the universe according to their whim. This is the whole point of farseers.

Lord Malorne
19-02-2009, 20:17
Fabius Bile has new playthings...

Zahr Dalsk
19-02-2009, 20:21
>could eldar become SM and what would happen?

No. Completely different species, right down to their DNA structure. The only similar feature is their appearance because the Old Ones originally designed them both (though they let humans evolve and just made Eldar perfect at the start).

Besides, that would be a downgrade. Eldar are far more badass than Space Marines. Would you want them to be slowed down by the Space Marines' clumsy coward armour? No.

stormblade
19-02-2009, 20:27
Not FAT ass enough, rather.

And not enough dumb to want to serve a living corpse who leads an inferior race. :D

yes- prancing around the universe following the path of a janitor is soo much smarter;)

Kal Taron
19-02-2009, 20:29
Considering that the Imperium can't even transform the females of their own species with an at least half-decent rate of success (e.g. higher than 1 in several thousands) they would probably have no idea where to even start with an Eldar.

buzz631
19-02-2009, 20:32
You’d have better luck turning a squirrel into a Space Marine.

yea super squirrels going to get you ha ha take that khorne bezerka with my strenghth 8 wallnut missle ha

ctsteel
19-02-2009, 20:37
What if they turned to chaos? "Nuts for the Nut God!!"
Some fanatic cultists might misinterpret that :eek:

Devil Tree
19-02-2009, 21:31
What if they turned to chaos? "Nuts for the Nut God!!"
Some fanatic cultists might misinterpret that :eek:

The Emperor actually tried that during the Great Crusade…

52972

…with horrific results. :(

Why else do you think all the records of the 2nd and 11th Space Marine Legions where expunged? Of course that’s only the 2nd Legion. The 11th is too unspeakable for words (shutter). :cries:

Chris_Lancaster
19-02-2009, 22:14
What would happen is the Eldar would die horrifically in agony, and the people trying to do it would be burned alive by the Inquisition, and their world probably destroyed for good measure :)

kikkoman
19-02-2009, 22:16
basically, my idea is that a group of Eldar see that the emperor is the only thing holding back countless deamons and what to protect/fight for him. Could they be turned into SM? what would happen if they were turned into SM? would they be like SM but faster and get more focus on one specific skill?

Space marines? It would really break the setting. Everyone irrevocably hates everyone else. The process is also specifically for unmutated humans.


But enhanced Eldar? Extra organs, bionics, genetic tinkering? That's the forte of the Dark Eldar haemonculi. Craftworlders seem to have a purity of mind/body theme going on.

Eldar are capable of becoming far tougher than a space marine, look at the grotesques (they suffer from stupidity though)

You also have combat drugs for enhanced speed and superhuman strength.

I hope the new Dark Eldar adds cybernetics to their flavor.

Messiah
19-02-2009, 22:48
Why would they want to? They are superior to Space Marines anyway..

(At least in their own mindset)

Bregalad
20-02-2009, 00:21
Counter question: Could hell freeze over and how would it look like? ;)

Messiah
20-02-2009, 00:34
Counter question: Could hell freeze over and how would it look like? ;)

Like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordi

Lord Fatwa
20-02-2009, 04:05
Squirrel Marines?

Nuts to that...

<sound of crickets, a single baby crying>

Ahem.

With regard to the Eldar aligning themselves to the Imperium/Emperor, it wouldn't be without precedent. Eldrad parlays with Fulgrim immediately before the outbreak of the Heresy, and doesn't he also try and communicate with the Emperor at some point? And lets not forget the Cabal in Legion. Admittedly the Eldar taking such a proactive step towards an allegiance of sorts would go a little against the established grain, where they more or less try and manipulate the Imperials into doing their will. I think the Eldar would be unlikely to pursue such a drastic step as this, however. I dunno... Genetic manipulation seems like much more of a Dark Eldar thing, based on the events of Dark Disciple, anyhoo...

Zahr Dalsk
20-02-2009, 04:58
They weren't seeking allegiance in any of those circumstances... simply trying to get the humans to follow the correct course of action (which would have been of mutual benefit).

Imperialis_Dominatus
20-02-2009, 05:04
Alliances happen occasionally. Tallarn and the Cursus, 13th Black Crusade (which apparently didn't happen now according to timeline but whatever), etc. But not a permanent one.

Lord Fatwa
20-02-2009, 05:21
They weren't seeking allegiance in any of those circumstances... simply trying to get the humans to follow the correct course of action (which would have been of mutual benefit).

Mutual <cough>We (you guys really) are going to stop Chaos dead in its tracks! It'll probably cost most of you your lives, but hey, you can't ever possibly reach the heights of culture and understanding that we can, so it's not really worth living, is it? You're better off dead! We're doing you a favour!<cough> benefit... :p


Totally agree, which is why I think it'd be a bit of a stretch to see this happening. Aside from the genetic difficulties, of course.

genestealer_baldric
20-02-2009, 07:08
The Emperor actually tried that during the Great Crusade…


…with horrific results. :(

i think you will find the 2nd chapter was squirrel chapter and 12th was the badger brigade ;)


Counter question: Could hell freeze over and how would it look like? ;)

sparkely?:p

GeneralDisaster
20-02-2009, 07:18
Not to mention the horiffic results from the Bull-Buggering Chapter.

AndrewGPaul
20-02-2009, 07:25
So, no-one else remembers when the Ultramarines' chief Librarian was a half-Eldar, then? pity.

Cythus
20-02-2009, 08:59
Not FAT ass enough, rather.

And not enough dumb to want to serve a living corpse who leads an inferior race. :D

it says in the new rule book "His [the emporer's] immense psychic power reaches out...his consciousness wanders through warpspace, warring against the daemons...keeping closed the doors between the world and the next [the warp]...if the emperor should fail [or die]...all physical life will end...no space. no time. Only chaos."

so if the emperor dies the entire galaxy is dead, surely that's enough reason to protect him?

Raxmei
20-02-2009, 10:06
Comparisons to squirrels understate the gap between humans and eldar. We only look similar, the physiology is completely alien. From a genetic compatibility standpoint you'd have better luck turning a bowl of petunias into a space marine. At least the petunias evolved on the same planet from a (very remote) common ancestor.

NightrawenII
20-02-2009, 10:43
i think you will find the 2nd chapter was squirrel chapter and 12th was the scout girls brigade ;)


Corrected for you.:evilgrin:

Emperor's Avenger
20-02-2009, 10:57
Since they have entirely different biology’s, following different evolutionary paths in complete isolation from each other, I would say no. At the cellular level, Eldar are nothing like humans they just have a similar appearance



Just what i was going to say.

Born Again
20-02-2009, 10:58
it says in the new rule book "His [the emporer's] immense psychic power reaches out...his consciousness wanders through warpspace, warring against the daemons...keeping closed the doors between the world and the next [the warp]...if the emperor should fail [or die]...all physical life will end...no space. no time. Only chaos."

so if the emperor dies the entire galaxy is dead, surely that's enough reason to protect him?

Not quite.

That is written from a very arrogant human point of view. Humans have been made to believe that if the Emperor dies, so does the Imperium and everyone in it. They don't care about aliens, as they believe they all deserve to die anyway and don't consider them as life. Or another way, the Emperor is everything. He is THE god. Without him holding everything together, *blip* it'll disappear.

In reality, probably not true. Even if he died and you prescribe to the Space Toilet story, all you really get is a daemonic incursion on Terra. Mankind basically reverts to a post-Age of Strife situation, but I can't see it having too many adverse effects. There are things greater than the Emperor holding back chaos from consuming the material realm, such as the C'Tan and their anti-warp constructs, and a thing called physics and reality that prevents chaos from entering. To think at the Emperor's death the whole universe erupts into a giant warpstorm is ridiculous: he just isn't that powerful. There's a discussion in another thread about whether he'd even stand half a chance against one Chaos God, let alone 4.

Cythus
20-02-2009, 16:32
Not quite.

That is written from a very arrogant human point of view. Humans have been made to believe that if the Emperor dies, so does the Imperium and everyone in it. They don't care about aliens, as they believe they all deserve to die anyway and don't consider them as life. Or another way, the Emperor is everything. He is THE god. Without him holding everything together, *blip* it'll disappear.

In reality, probably not true. Even if he died and you prescribe to the Space Toilet story, all you really get is a daemonic incursion on Terra. Mankind basically reverts to a post-Age of Strife situation, but I can't see it having too many adverse effects. There are things greater than the Emperor holding back chaos from consuming the material realm, such as the C'Tan and their anti-warp constructs, and a thing called physics and reality that prevents chaos from entering. To think at the Emperor's death the whole universe erupts into a giant warpstorm is ridiculous: he just isn't that powerful. There's a discussion in another thread about whether he'd even stand half a chance against one Chaos God, let alone 4.

thou shalt not disrespect the emporer;)
i thought that it was true as that is why he had to go back to terra from the great crusade, to fight chaos

Poseidal
20-02-2009, 16:43
But enhanced Eldar? Extra organs, bionics, genetic tinkering? That's the forte of the Dark Eldar haemonculi. Craftworlders seem to have a purity of mind/body theme going on.

Well, Craftworld Eldar do have bionics but the rest, yeah.

And as for the original question.

Not gonna happen. Unless, of course, it's a half-Eldar half-Human; in which case, it's already happened and he was an Ultramarine.

proposition
20-02-2009, 17:54
thou shalt not disrespect the emporer;)
i thought that it was true as that is why he had to go back to terra from the great crusade, to fight chaos

Well the galaxy was doing just find before the Emperor, I don't see why suddenly he's the only thing stopping Chaos from eating everything.

General Squeek Squeek
20-02-2009, 18:11
Since they have entirely different biology’s, following different evolutionary paths in complete isolation from each other, I would say no. At the cellular level, Eldar are nothing like humans they just have a similar appearance

You’d have better luck turning a squirrel into a Space Marine.

You've just inspired me to make a squirrel space marine army :D:D. They'll protect their nuts to the death:p.

isidril93
20-02-2009, 18:25
well is there are squirrel marines then smurfs are actually...SMURFS!!!

Cythus
20-02-2009, 18:27
Well, Craftworld Eldar do have bionics but the rest, yeah.

And as for the original question.

Not gonna happen. Unless, of course, it's a half-Eldar half-Human; in which case, it's already happened and he was an Ultramarine.

if eldar and humans are very different genetically as many people are suggesting how could they have children?
Just like you can breed (artifically) a lion with a tiger but not a cheet ah, surely for a human to breed with an eldar they must have similar biological structures?
i am confused:confused:

was it a human man and an eldar women or visa versa?

Imperialis_Dominatus
20-02-2009, 18:51
They'll protect their nuts to the death:p.

Just like me!


if eldar and humans are very different genetically as many people are suggesting how could they have children?

They can't. This isn't your D&D, friend.

Cythus
20-02-2009, 18:56
it wasn't me that said they could...

i was remarking on the inconsistancies of them being totally different genetically (and so could never become SM) yet in the fluff there is a half human/eldar

Valharik
20-02-2009, 19:40
This should be locked. It only could go worse thanks to the disproportionate ego of SM fanboys who tells them that everybody wants to be SM in the deep of his soul to clean all the latent gayness that could be there (i fear thats also what started the thread ).

Col. Tartleton
20-02-2009, 19:53
Eldar aren't even made of the same stuff as we are, their tissues are crystaline if i recall, they even excrete their wastes as crystal. Their blood is corrosive and will burn stone... They're so far from human that their forms if anything are mocking, though in a proper look, they aren't that human. Their faces are far more angular and elongated.

Regardless, a human probably couldn't even have sex with an eldar, not to mention the impossibility of their offspring existing.

For all we know, their sweat is acidic too, and, well, you wouldn't want to be in there.

Lambda
20-02-2009, 20:34
They retconed the 13th black crusade? As far as how the emperor's death would affect the universe i remember reading that the emperor came into being before the first chaos god so he could be instrumental in keeping them from conquering/destroying the material realm. I also remember reading that when the emperor killed Horus his attack was so powerful the chaos gods abandoned Horus in fear.

Poseidal
20-02-2009, 22:52
if eldar and humans are very different genetically as many people are suggesting how could they have children?
Just like you can breed (artifically) a lion with a tiger but not a cheet ah, surely for a human to breed with an eldar they must have similar biological structures?
i am confused

was it a human man and an eldar women or visa versa?
It's a shoutout to Rogue Trader. I think he actually got retconned out of existence.

Arakanis
21-02-2009, 02:04
Why would the Eldar even try? An Exarch is more than a match for a Space Marine. (Remember the Exarch Powers "Burning Fist" "Crushing Blow", "Sustained Assault" and "Defend" from 3rd edition?) I still chuckle about my Fire Dragon Exarch killing half a squad of Marines in one round by himself by punching them and my Swooping Hawk Exarch cutting down an entire squad of Chosen Chaos Space Marines at I6 before they even got to act. So much fun.

Col. Tartleton
21-02-2009, 02:27
A regular aspect is more than a match for a space marine. Guardians give marines trouble in the fluff. The marine wins, but the guardian gets some solid wounds on them. I mean think about it, in the fluff a concentrated puff of shuriken from a catapult will wound a marines armor easily. The marine will carry on of course, but he'll be bleeding for a bit. To an unarmored man the shuriken will dissolve the flesh. A guardsmen hit in the arm with a long shuriken blast will lose the arm entirely, the little blades will dissolve the flesh off the bone and score away the bone leaving a stump. After all, its stats are the same as a bolter which should leave at best a pair of legs behind if not less when it detonates the torso into mush.

Now Aspects however are going to be equal or better than a marine. They're more dedicated, more skilled, and better equipped. A striking scorpion will be taking the marine on hand to hand, eye to eye. His sword will come faster and as a chainblade the strength will be equal. The scorpion will fire his mandiblasters into his opponents eyes as they lock blades and kill them instantly before lobbing off their head.

An Exarch... your looking at a veteran sergeant or captain or better in melee, one of the top marines in the chapter would struggle with an Exarch whose blades and guns would leave their body in pieces. Its not hard to imagine an exarch dancing around and cutting down a marine leader. In DoW by Goto a ranged exarch from the dark reapers manages to hold his own fighting against the terminator clad veteran sergeant of the company. A striking scorpion or Banshee Exarch would unlimb an enemy and watch them struggle for fun.

Then you have the Soul Receptacles that are the Phoenix Lords who are probably more in the range between the greatest chapter masters and the Primarchs.

Zahr Dalsk
21-02-2009, 02:49
>if eldar and humans are very different genetically as many people are suggesting how could they have children?

Because some people like the idea despite how horribly anti-40k the entire concept of "hurr hurr human-eldar hybrids" is.

It used to exist in 1e. Then Games Workshop realized it was a terrible idea and retconned it out.

omgadinosaur
21-02-2009, 03:05
The better question is...what if Tyranids could become Space Marines.

Imagine, The Ultramarines tap into the hivemind for communication.

UM: "Hive Mind! Why are you trying to eat us!?"
HM: "We just want to be friends! We want to sign up to be Ultramarines and serve the emperor and become equipped with even better plot armour!"
UM: "Here's your Bolters!"

:)

Zahr Dalsk
21-02-2009, 03:38
>what if Tyranids could become Space Marines

Tyrant Guard.

baphomael
21-02-2009, 03:57
As noted, it couldnt happend and it wouldnt even be attempted.

The process to create a marine revolved around human physiology. It needs the organds and chemical ballance of a young, pre-pubescent human male (particularly since it requires testorterone to work). Eldar, despite looking like point eared girly-men, do not have the same physiology as humans and thus the processes required to create a marine just wouldnt work. At all. To make a marine-like Eldar would require starting from scratch to create a way of genetically manipulating Eldar (and, thus, a fully working knowledge of Eldar physiology).

Besides, the Imperium (and the Astartes) wouldnt permit such a thing to happen - Space Marines are the holy progeny of the Emperor, something sacred in themselves, and to even try to do the same to an inhuman, alien, devil-made-flesh would be utterly unthinkable.

Likewise, the Eldar would be far too arrogant to accept they could benefit from this kind of genetic manipulation. The Eldar already believe they are utterly perfect the way they are. Anything that is not Eldar is less than dirt to them. They are a race of racial supremacists who are *can* be a bit more pragmatic about their beliefs - they will use and manipulate others if it serves the Eldar races' survival. Of course, that by no means they are chummy with other species.

Imperialis_Dominatus
21-02-2009, 06:48
yet in the fluff there is a half human/eldar

Any since 1st ed? Any that haven't been overwritten?


This should be locked. It only could go worse

True.


thanks to the disproportionate ego of SM fanboys who tells them that everybody wants to be SM in the deep of his soul to clean all the latent gayness that could be there (i fear thats also what started the thread ).

Especially after that.

Johnnyfrej
21-02-2009, 08:00
Regardless, a human probably couldn't even have sex with an eldar, not to mention the impossibility of their offspring existing.

That isn't quite true. In the Inquisition War series =][= Draco's pet Callidus Meh'lindi uses polymorphine to turn herself into an Eldar female. She then asks the Inquisitor to, I believe she said, "Consecrate" her new form for their next mission (*bomb-chicka-wah-wah*).

Valharik
21-02-2009, 11:54
BL stuff shouldn´t be take seriously in threads like this since their (necessary) narrative resources often avoid what we know in official fluff. This goes for the sm vs ogryn thread too.

Hellebore
21-02-2009, 12:14
They have analogous sexual organs according to Xenology. Not to put too fine a point on it, humans don't have a lock and key reproductive system like many insects where the males only fit the same species' females. So long as the reproductive organs are similar in shape and design, then sex is still possible. FERTILISATION however is not. We can't fertilise a sheep with a camel, and those two are closely related. Even lions and tigers produce infertile hybrids and they're in the same genus!

Xenology retconned the existence of human eldar hybrids out when it out and out explained that the eldar genome (it can't literally be DNA because DNA doesn't form 4 stranded molecules) is extremely different to human DNA (4 stranded instead of 2 iirc), which would make any kind of crossing over or integration impossible. humans show a tendency to mutate, so I'm sure there will be, somewhere a human group that superficially LOOKS like the eldar (perhaps as a byproduct of ancient 'fashion genetic engineering' during the DAoT where everyone wanted to look like the eldar cause they were better than them).

So, just like the ogryn question this has a simple answer that people try to overcomplicate. Eldar do not have a genome compatible with humans, can't reproduce with them, and thus would not be able to accept space marine implants. As it is the subject needs to undergo continual immunosuppression to prevent rejection for the entire life and that's ostensibly in the same species.

Hellebore

Valharik
21-02-2009, 12:49
Excelent explanation!

Col. Tartleton
21-02-2009, 14:21
But if you break their hymen, then they're going to burn off your genitals with their acid blood!

[Readers reactions: :wtf: :cries:]

I think all that analogous reproduction means is that the male has a penis and testes and the females have a vagina like structure and an uterus.

But like I was saying, just because we could "link" up doesn't mean that we would want to. Its probably got broken glass and stuff in there...

Regardless, since Eldar are only visually similar and are ultimately completely different then people, and gene seed won't even work in most humans, there's no way it could work in an eldar.

And like I said, an eldar warrior is a match for an Imperial one.