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PeG
20-02-2009, 07:14
played in a small doubles tournament yesterday and came up against a war hydra. Owner claimed it was US10 while we belived it was US7 (5 for hydra = starting wounds + 2 for handlers). It was decided that we were correct but our opponent was unhappy about it. So what whould it be?

It turned out that the decision was important for the outcome of the game since it prevented the hydra from breaking the unit of dryads it was fighting and the dryads ended up killing the hydra in the next turn.

nosferatu1001
20-02-2009, 07:27
US= starting number of wounds, which is 5. For the purposes of outnumbering its therefore US7 in total.

One of the few to have a higher US than this rule is the stegadon, which is specifically overridden to have US10, not 5

Necromancy Black
20-02-2009, 07:40
Why the bloody hell would it ahve a US of 10? What was his reason for it.

and yes, you got it correct. 5 for the starting wounds plus 1 for each handler.

kroq'gar
20-02-2009, 07:44
Indeed thats the rules unless SPECIFICALLY NOTED

Neckutter
20-02-2009, 09:55
came up against a war hydra. Owner claimed it was US10

did you point and laugh at the 40k player? you should have.

on a side note, you survived the hydra/handlers in the first turn? impressive.

Nurgling Chieftain
20-02-2009, 18:49
That's not even a 40K rule anymore. :p

Neckutter
20-02-2009, 19:17
i wouldnt know, i only played 7 games since the 5th edition rulebook. and i won three of those games in a tournament? yeah its horrible. Space Wolves for the cheat-to-win.

Mr_Rose
20-02-2009, 19:38
i wouldnt know, i only played 7 games since the 5th edition rulebook. and i won three of those games in a tournament? yeah its horrible. Space Wolves for the cheat-to-win.
What the hell, man? What fake rule do you imagine they break, exactly?

SPYDER68
20-02-2009, 20:08
i wouldnt know, i only played 7 games since the 5th edition rulebook. and i won three of those games in a tournament? yeah its horrible. Space Wolves for the cheat-to-win.

If you think the balance in 40k is worse then fantasy then you have no clue on 40k :P...

And space wolves for the cheat to win... yea...mmk..

nosferatu1001
21-02-2009, 19:35
Space wolves get +1 attack if they charge or get charged, and can horriffic number of power weapon attacks.

You also have so, so many awesome characters :)

SPYDER68
22-02-2009, 02:33
Space wolves get +1 attack if they charge or get charged, and can horriffic number of power weapon attacks.

You also have so, so many awesome characters :)

Other armies can get the +1 attack when charged :) And ALL armies with a very few exceptions get +1 attack on the charge.


Meh characters in 40k arent so hot vs shooting or vs normal guys with special weapons.. which can isnta kill their 200 pt HQ in 1 shot. Unlike fantasy where they can run the game's total outcome.


Both games have their problems :P just seems fantasy has more these days, all comes down to prefrence, i prefer 40k, but enjoy fantasy now and then, and want to paint those new lizzie models.

I just find it amusing when people go after 40k and not have a clue :P

Neckutter
22-02-2009, 02:58
What the hell, man? What fake rule do you imagine they break, exactly?

um, my bodyguard retinue contains 9 dudes, 3 of which are in termi armor, and those 3 dudes just happen to have cyclone missle launchers. i think 3 heavy weapons in one squad that isnt devastators is cheat to win. Oh, i also take 3 units of long fangs, which split fire. again, cheat to win.

Asmodiseus
22-02-2009, 03:41
Oh yeah well my Elite Storm Troopers will beat your storm troopers up while my squadron of intergalatic star cruisers blast you to bits.

Man 40k players are such dorks, as opposed to the very cool people who play fantasy like myself. Seriously we get all the babes....

Anyway wasnt this thread about the US of the Hydra?

Neckutter
22-02-2009, 03:52
i got a lot of heat, just for mentioning that space wolves have been an abusive army for 4-5 years. :)

Mr_Rose
22-02-2009, 11:30
So, the fake rule that you imagine they break is "no squad may have more than one heavy weapon unless it is a devastator squad"?
You must love tanks.

nosferatu1001
22-02-2009, 17:58
NO, its that the bodyguard retinue has 3 heavy weapons, meannig the character a) cant be picked out in CC and b_ has a heavy hitting retune around him.

Retinues are a hangover, and are being phased out, so armies with them are sort of cheaters...

WLBjork
22-02-2009, 20:14
I know rules questions often get derailed but I think this takes the biscuit...


(BTW, the retinue rules don't protect the character in 40K. Independant Characters can always be targetted seperately to the rest of the unit).

Neckutter
23-02-2009, 05:12
So, the fake rule that you imagine they break is "no squad may have more than one heavy weapon unless it is a devastator squad"?
You must love tanks.

you must be a 40k fan.:cries:
in case you havent noticed, most marines squads only have at max 2 specialist weapons. these are either assault or heavy weapons. devastators are unique in that they can have 4 heavy weapons.

terminators can have a max of one(poor DA) or two heavy weapons. and certainly armies dont mix/match regular marines with termis anymore.

thus you should read "cheat to win" meaning "doesnt abide by the usual marine setup". it doesnt mean i say that they are a cheater army, its called exaggeration.

nosferatu1001
23-02-2009, 08:15
(BTW, the retinue rules don't protect the character in 40K. Independant Characters can always be targetted seperately to the rest of the unit).

Wrong - you havent read the definition of retinues - while the retinue is alive, the IC counts as an upgrade chracter for that unit

Upgrade characters cant be targetted ;)

Draconian77
23-02-2009, 08:36
I never saw the issue with retinues, they generally cost 50%-75% more than your basic troop choice for 0% added survivability. The general rule of thumb is that they have +1 attack and or +1 Ld and more options for arming indivual members. Only Nobs are actually decent retinues, which become absurd as soon as you keep upgrading them...

Having all those awesome weapons in one squad means that a single Demolisher Cannon shot could leave your plan hanging by a thread, not to mention an assault would tie up all of that firepower.

It also makes a failed Morale or Pinning check much more of an issue although the Ld rules in 40k are basically being phased out anyway.

PeG
23-02-2009, 13:21
did you point and laugh at the 40k player? you should have.

on a side note, you survived the hydra/handlers in the first turn? impressive.


Lots of bad dice in that game for everyone involved especially for saves I dont think the DE player rolled higher than a 3 for any save during the entire game. After a couple of turns he had his teammate rolling the saves and that was slightly better. Still failed the regen though :evilgrin:

The hydra had lost 3 wounds due to shooting (Hail of Doom+11 S3+10 S4 shots from Glade guard) before doing anything, flamed and killed a lone Daemon wizard (in our team) then charged a unit of dryads and killed 3 on the charge. Dryads stayed (due to US7, so it was really close) and killed the hydra in the next turn.

PeG
23-02-2009, 19:03
Another follow-up since the US was wrong. Is the hydra a skirmisher that gives -1 to hit with shooting? Our opponent claimed it was +1 to hit due to it being a large target and -1 to hit due to skirmish. We allowed it since we cant check to rulebook or run to the ref for everything.

Nurgling Chieftain
23-02-2009, 20:03
Skirmishing units only get the -1 to be hit if every model in the unit is US1. As the hydra is most definitely not US1, the -1 does not apply.