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Angelust
24-02-2009, 01:54
Hey guys. I seriously need help. I'm getting killed at my local game store from DoC. I have high elves, but I'd rather get them painted before fielding them much.


My general chaos list is...

lvl 4 Tzeentch sorc
lvl 2 nurg sorc
festus
BSB (or another sorc)

2x20 marauder block - MoS, FC, LA, shields
2x5 hounds
5 marauder horsemen

5 knights

warshrine

And then fill in the rest with either warriors, more knights, or more marauders possibly.


There are a couple armies I usually get killed by.


A mixed DoC army with flamers, bloodletters, bloodthirster combat-oriented, flesh hounds, etc.

A nurgle DoC army that has 3 big blocks of plague-bearers with herald, a GUO, and lots of nurgle magic + bound spells.

Help needed. What can I do to make a more competitive list that won't just get killed right away?

Ultimo ninja
24-02-2009, 02:32
oh boy....demons can be nasty......

I cant think of what to do in this situation...maybe neknoh can help you, I know he helped me.

Fate
24-02-2009, 02:50
One thing you can try is possibly the best way of working with WoC.
4 nurgle mages, 1 unit of chaos knights. try a couple dragon ogres if you have, i not just fill with more chaos knights and for core get 3 maurader horsemen, cheap and fast. Maybe some shagots if you don't have dragon ogres.

The nurgle magic inWoC is just awesome, a really game winner.

Kerill
24-02-2009, 03:03
I assume you don't mind mixing marks. Against daemons you may need a more solid unit to present than marauders, you also need something to take down flamers.

For taking down flamers and guarding your flank I would suggest mounting your nurgle sorcerer on an unmarked chariot. Also I would stick your bsb on a disk with the golden eye for a nice speed boost. I'm not a big believer in the warshrine btw so you might be able to use those points.

Slaanesh marauders can't really hurt daemons much and against the harder stuff their save will be gone anyway, I would swap them for blocks of 18 (champ only) or 24 (FC) Khorne marauders with GW. Alternatively go for a unit of warriors with rapturous standard.

For knights, I would recommend frenzy (MOK or banner of fury) since daemons can't flee and frenzied knights will make a mess of anything quickly.

Festus is nice but against daemons with lots of killing blow and flaming attacks he isn't as good IMO, and he is also holding back your magic slightly since he can't take scrolls, power familiar, puppet or book.

A blood thirster is a problem so you will need to protect your main sorceror somehow, one way is a unit of warriors, second way is on a disk with enchanted shield and collar of khorne (since your bsb will have the eye).

You could also try putting your bsb on a jugger with a shield, armour of zhrakk and maybe sword of might and talisman of protection. 0+save is always handy and the immunities will help against nurgle and Khorne heralds.

I would also suggest a couple more dross units against daemons (hounds/horsemen) since you will want to try and take the armies a bit at the time (especially the wall of nurgle)

If you put up a more detailed list it will be easier to improve it though :)

Angelust
24-02-2009, 03:37
So the feedback I'm getting so far is...

4 nurgle casters, or 3 casters + flying BSB, and lots of knights?

It seems to me like the nurgle lore would be great against some daemons, but what about against plague-bearers? Last game, miasma just meant ALL of my hard hitters were like wet toilet paper. Just more magic defense?

I like Festus, personally, because he guarantees curse of the leper, and he also gives +5 regen and poison attacks.

As for marauder horsemen, I've usually found them shot down pretty fast, as a +5 AS is pretty pathetic, and a +4 AS with shield takes away their fast cav status, which also hurts this slow army.



How about something along the lines of this for a list...?

lvl 4 Nurgle Sorc

lvl 2 Nurgle sorc

Festus

BSB - Disc

Warriors x18 - FC, Rap Standard, FC
Marauder Horsemen x5- Flails
Marauder Horsemen x5- Flails
Hounds 2x5

Knights - MoN, Banner of Rage, Standard
Knights - MoK, lances

Something along those lines?

Kerill
24-02-2009, 06:03
Level 4 sorceror should be tzeentch with spell familiar so you can actually kill the BT, or 4 level 2 nurgle.

Post FAQ nurgle is less useful against WS5 daemons so you can just go for two units og MOK knights if you want to save points. I wouldn't bother with the lances either.

Then what else you go for depends on how many points you have left.

Oh and if you know that your opponent will bring the nurgle list then a chaos lord of khorne on jugger with armour of zhrakk and helfire sword will be insanely good against them.

Neckutter
24-02-2009, 10:38
lances on chaos knights is such garbage.
better to be S5 all the time, than S6 only the first turn when you get the charge off for more points.

a lvl 4 Tz sorc lord on disc should be able to stay far enough way from a thirster to blast it with infernal gateway every turn. basically this is your only hope. :)

acsmedic
24-02-2009, 11:46
I have had good success against daemons with this kind of list

4 Sorcerors MOT 1 lvl4 and 3 lvl2 (nurgle deamons HATE flicker) (do not be shy use the tongue and puppet combo specially against an Epi nurgle list of tallied doom. (spam flicker to draw dispel dice than hit em with gateway)

3 units of warriors x12 MON with shields, MOK with Halberd and Shields, and MOK with xtra HW

2 units of knights 1 MOS, the other MOK

2 units of hounds (to screen the MOK units)

1 marauder cav MOS to march block

2 spawn (get one of these into a horror unit and that unit is locked down for a while as long as you can supress the DOC magic)

Against a Nurgle list-
Get into combat with Epi's unit ASAP and keep directing attacks against him until he dies (the Halberd warriors are the ideal here) to get rid of the tally.

The Hearlds are the nurgle list strength and weakness if you can kill the hearlds then the PB's are much eaiser to deal.

Against the GUO - magic and feed it spawn/fast cav to keep it out of the game as much as possible, if you can get 5 wounds off it by magic than great otherwise just tie it down and bait it around.

Angelust
24-02-2009, 17:02
How about Archaon and Kholek? Kholek can deal with heralds and bloodthirsters and the like, while Archaon is a defensive beast that doubles as a lvl2 caster, BSB, ld10 general, and MR2. He can also dish out the wounds.

Shamfrit
24-02-2009, 18:16
I would actually say to you to not use the Lore of Nurgle, primarily because it's a Lore that utterly excels against heavily armoured, low initiative and low toughness troops, now, you might have the latter covered with T3 Core Troops - but, Daemons of Chaos will typically be able to shrug off Curse of the Leper with their dispel/power dice ratios, not to mention, you have to keep your Sorcerors alive for long enough to maintain the Status Quo, not to mention Daemons have army wide ward saves, Buboes ain't no good there...

Then we have the Tzeentchian Lore...which, by all means, will cause Daemons some serious harm, even the Scream effect is fantastic here, as LD 7 is perfectly plausible, and Pandaemonium will not only make Daemons test for Instability on at least a 6, it'll critically hamper their magic phase. Gateway and Flickering Fire should be used to take out anything not core, non-Thirster Greater Daemons especially, and coupled with Pandaemonium should give you the freedom to breathe against an otherwise overbearing magic phase.

Slaaneshi Lore, I needn't have to say, will fail. Drastically. You could hazard a Lvl 2 for the Lash spell, which could be a one-trick pony to halt the advance of Flamers or Fiends across No Man's land, but Tzeentch is where it's at for Anti-Daemons, I don't like Tzeentch that much personally (I played it to death,) but if you're insistant on providing the tools to take Daemons down, it's to the Lord of Change you go!