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Vsurma
25-02-2009, 08:55
I am planning my lizardman army with a slann and engine.

Now I want to get as many spells through as possible.

1 trick I thought of trying would be to replace one of my coldone riding scarvets with 1 with that bound spell item that grants you the flight move, it has a power level of 5.

The idea behind it would not be so much to use it but to cast it at the start of each magic phase hoping the enemy dispells it. At power level 5 they would have to use 2 dice to have a decent chance to dispell it.

Would allow my other spells to get off easier.

On a GW wielding scar vet that would be 4 S7 attacks coming at the opponent anywhere within 20", scary enough to be dispelled?

If he lets it through I don't actually have to charge anywhere, can just fly back to where I started. Repeat each turn.

If they have any chariots or war machines they don't want to lose it might work to suck up some dice.

Think it would work?

Anyone use any similar tricks?

The spear unit would lose immune to fear so it comes at a steep price but I think it might be worth it if it works.

Thoughts?

The Red Scourge
25-02-2009, 09:00
Thats the general us of bound spells. You get a lot of power at a low level, so your opponent has plenty of reason to try and dispel it :)

Urgat
25-02-2009, 10:05
Scar vets are S6?

Jericho
25-02-2009, 10:31
S5+2 from great weapon. T5 and 4A as well. They are pretty badass for heroes.

Disciple of Caliban
25-02-2009, 11:34
^^ Yeah, thats a big part of the appeal of bound spells. They cant fail so your opponent either has to use dice or you get the benefit of the spell, no chance of it failing since no dice are involved. Plus, flying scar vets can be great, not only will they make a real mess of chariots/war machines, they can also violate any mages (it doesnt matter if they're on there own, or on the corner of a unit, they're fair game either way!, just dont issue a challenge!!) thus helping you get more of your own spells through :)

Vsurma
25-02-2009, 12:12
Comments seem positive.

My plan originally was to run slann in TG, 2 saurus spear blocks with a scar vet in each and a engine for 4 solid blocks.

I want to protect all 3 saurus blocks from fear.

So I think if I want to drop the cold one from one of the scar vets and take the flight bound item instead maybe I will also drop a unit of saurus.

Just have 1 saurus, 1 TG and the engine and go with 3 blocks.

The power level being 5 is especially good though, meaning 2 dice needed.

Necromancy Black
25-02-2009, 12:27
Don't forget power stones. Use up your dice and let your oppanant waste his, then bust out a powerstone and throw a spell you want to get off at them. With a Slann and the extra dice that's 3 dice, good for anything up power level 10 to get off reliably. After this your oppanant is faced with the fact that if you disples all your spells he cna't stop the power stones, but it he doesn't throw the dice there are the other spell that he is letting through.

Dokushin
25-02-2009, 13:19
Yeah, that Jag Charm on a Scar-Vet is better than a vanilla Priest for drawing out DD, no one wants to eat a 20" charge from S7 T5 A4, especially after he's already moved 8" (that's a first turn charge)... either you eat two of their dispel die or you get to wipe out a warmachine or small cavalry unit, and next turn you can fly right back out if necessary.

Personally, I bring all three of our bounds -- Rod of the Storm, Blood Statuette of Spite, and the Jaguar Charm. I use the first two to draw out dispel scrolls at the end of the first turn (or get free Uranon's and that scary toughness test), and keep the Charm pressure up for free charges. Just keep the pressure up, and the spells will start blasting through.

Spirit
25-02-2009, 13:36
1 trick I thought of trying would be to replace one of my coldone riding scarvets with 1 with that bound spell item that grants you the flight move, it has a power level of 5.




That bound item is for models on foot only, or the spell only affects models on foot, or both, i forget which.

But it would work on a GW weilding foot model, but he would only get a 4+ save and maximum 6+ ward, so i would be wary.

I do like the idea though, but it would probably be better on someone tooled out to charge into mages and slaughter them

Scar veteran.
Light Armour
Hand weapon
Shield
Great weapon (so you can pick, better save or S7)
Charm of the jaguar warrior
Talismen of protection

139 points

2+/6+ save 4 attacks S5

or

4+/6+ save, 4 attacks S7

That would be good. Just remember not to put him into a ranked up unit, use him to butcher war machines.

And rather than making them waste dice, i would use it last, so you can kill a war machine and stop them hurting your stegadons.


--snip--they can also violate any mages (it doesnt matter if they're on there own, or on the corner of a unit, they're fair game either way!, just dont issue a challenge!!) thus helping you get more of your own spells through :)

"My mighty champion will issue a challenge"

3 ranks + standard + outnumber = dead scar vet, dont go into ranked up units, you only need to be in the fighting RANK to issue a challenge, so unless they put the mage on a corner and you can flank them, dont even bother.

Even then, a mage for a scar vet isnt a good trade imo, i'd rather trade a warmachine for nothing of mine.

Vsurma
25-02-2009, 14:38
That bound item is for models on foot only, or the spell only affects models on foot, or both, i forget which.

I know, hence the word replace

Replace the cold one for the flight item.

Well, ranked units are not going down to a lone hero but with 4 attacks you should get some overkill.

2 wounds average meaning you lose by 3, ld5 on coldblooded, possible with a reroll from bsb (though not on turn 1) you might still hold, or you might outrun the enemy if you win so its not auto-dead vet but still your right, not the best target.

depends on the circumstances as always

Urgat
25-02-2009, 14:49
S5+2 from great weapon. T5 and 4A as well. They are pretty badass for heroes.

Well, you're saying he's a coldone rider, GW on mounted units only give +1S, so that would be S6
Or you mean you replace a coldone one with one on foot, and then nevermind :p

Disciple of Caliban
25-02-2009, 14:50
so unless they put the mage on a corner and you can flank them, dont even bother.


Sorry, i should have been clearer. This is exactly what i'm suggesting. Characters are afterall usually on the corner of the unit, yes, it may well cost you the scar vet (thats not guaranteed though, not by any means), but i'd gladly sacrifice a scar vet to drop a mage lord

Spirit
25-02-2009, 16:03
Sorry, i should have been clearer. This is exactly what i'm suggesting. Characters are afterall usually on the corner of the unit, yes, it may well cost you the scar vet (thats not guaranteed though, not by any means), but i'd gladly sacrifice a scar vet to drop a mage lord

I find most people are wise to this trick, at least at my store, so they put him second in. But yea it would work if you could get round the flank of a mages unit with M4. Gonna be hard though.

Disciple of Caliban
25-02-2009, 17:53
I find most people are wise to this trick, at least at my store, so they put him second in

Yeah, this has become more common. Ah for the good old days when 4 models made a rank so characters had to be at the side to make room for the command group, good times :)

Bauhaus86
28-02-2009, 14:36
My mighty champion will issue a challenge"

3 ranks + standard + outnumber = dead scar vet, dont go into ranked up units, you only need to be in the fighting RANK to issue a challenge, so unless they put the mage on a corner and you can flank them, dont even bother.

:confused: p.77 of the rulebook states:
"Also note that in order to participate in a challenge, either to issue or meet it, a character must be fighting in combat already. This means that the model must actually be positioned base-to-base against an enemy model."

Where did you get the idea of only needing to be in the fighting rank from? (Don't take this as an offense, I'm just curious).

Cousteau
28-02-2009, 19:44
I'd suggest trying to cast 'smaller' spells first, so that he hopefully takes the bait and spends his dispel dice--and then cast the spell you reaaally wanted to cast.

Von Wibble
28-02-2009, 20:20
Problem with that is that a smart opponent knows what spell is most important so won't fall for that. As far as bound spells go, I agree that they do waste enemy dispel dice well.

However, the surprise value of throwing a model 20" that the enemy thought couldn't reach may mean holding fire is also worthwhile. If he allocates dispel dice for only your spells and doesn't have anything left this can be decisive.

Leth Shyish'phak
28-02-2009, 21:42
"My mighty champion will issue a challenge"

3 ranks + standard + outnumber = dead scar vet, dont go into ranked up units, you only need to be in the fighting RANK to issue a challenge, so unless they put the mage on a corner and you can flank them, dont even bother.

Even then, a mage for a scar vet isnt a good trade imo, i'd rather trade a warmachine for nothing of mine.

I disagree. Scar Veterans are quite good at mage-hunting. Throw in the Bane Head and even lord level wizards need to step carefully. Unlike other mage-hunters, the Scar Veteran doesn't neccessarily have to finish off his target in one round. Losing by three is still Ld5 with cold-blooded, which is actually about a 52% chance of passing. If the bsb is nearby then it shoots up to about 77%. If said bsb is also a Slann, then its Ld6 with even better chances of holding (68% with just a Slann, 90% with a Slann bsb).

So the Scar-veteran can quite happily charge in, gut your champion and then proceed to kill the wizard in your turn. The fact that a lone Scar-veteran could then proceed to hold up that unit for a few turns makes it an even better idea. Just don't charge him away off ahead of the army, hold him back until about turn 3 when the Slann/bsb can be nearby.

Of course, your Slann can take the Lore of Metal for a reason. Champion, begone :D

Necromancy Black
28-02-2009, 21:53
What someone has said about what spells are important is a good point. Picking a law for your Slann will be important.

Lore of Metal against things like dwarfs, Brettonians and WoC will result is most spells being must-disples for them, as they can all inflict alot of dameage, particully the ones that ignore armour. Transmutation of Lead is dangerous to anyone, espicially if they're fighting S4, T4 and 2A units, and Law of Gold can really weaken alot of characters (great for getting rid of that goddamned Armour of Damnation).

So your ability to get your oppanant to pull out disple dice may depend on his armour and what lore your using.

Lord Dan
03-03-2009, 20:47
For the first two turns, I always spend a bunch of dice on a "powerhouse" spell. For instance, let's take an Empire army:

Priest
Captain with Horn
Lv. 2 Mage

This isn't my normal setup, but it's fairly close. So let's assume the mage took the lore of fire, and got "fireball" and "conflagration of doom". Here's the order of my magic phase:

-Bound spell from captain (even if the bound item is useless at the time you're using it, if there's no chance of it "Blowing up", there's absolutely no reason not to declare using it.)

-Bound spell from priest (usually something defensive, such as "unbreakable". Anything that makes your opponent think: "Will that be annoying in the next turn?")

-1 dice fireball from my mage.

-3 dice conflagration of doom.

The idea here isn't the get the spell off (though successfully casting it is important), because the spell doesn't matter right now. The idea is to make your opponent think you want to get the spell off, and in turn he'll go out of his way to stop that from happening. Against more experience players this doesn't work as well, simply because they know what to hold scrolls for. However I can't tell you how many games I've won because my opponent didn't have a scroll. In almost every case they used it on something they regretted using it on.