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View Full Version : how does the latest armies effect balance between different armies?



PeG
25-02-2009, 10:14
Lizardmen and maybe also WoC have some units and pieces of equipment that at least in theory can stand up against Daemons (if anyone can), VC and DE. Engine, good magic defence, poison etc should make it at least harder for some of these power armies.

But on the same time many of these units look like they can be handled by armies like the empire, dwarfs, skaven etc (cannons, jezzails and other shooting). Does anyone have more practical experience in what effect these armies are having on game balance and how they would cope in a tournament setting?

Sifal
25-02-2009, 10:33
Nothing except Daemons currently copes well in a competetive tournament. Of the top 10 finishers in last weekends Grand Tournament Final i think 7 were daemons. VC and DE are powerful but not on the same level as daemons.

The Red Scourge
25-02-2009, 10:46
I can safely say that WoC will have no impact on the reign of DoC, and I can only hope that no single army will ever have. With the time it takes to produce new rule books, it will be far better if the forthcoming army books stay at a power level with Empire, WoC, etc.

Then tournament players can get it off parading their DoC around, while others can enjoy a more relaxed and balanced game :)

PeG
25-02-2009, 12:25
I was hoping that at least lizards would be able to make a dent in daemon supremacy not due to being completely OP compared to other lists but because of having a set up that would be particulary bad for daemons and maybe undead. I sort of like daemons and is probably picking them up for 40k which got me start thinking about starting them for fantasy as well. But currently that seems like a bad idea. I want armies that are fun to play with and against, not something that is to strong to be fun.

Sifal
25-02-2009, 13:00
I have had good games against mono-god daemon armies. Those are acceptable to my mind and even more so if it is clear that the opponent has made an effort with modelling and painting. Mixed daemon armies will not earn you friends or rematches. In fact I think most people ould be happy so long as you didn't include more than 1 unit of flesh hounds and no flamers and no skulltaker.

And if there is a daemon power build even lizardmen can't top trump them.

Ward.
25-02-2009, 13:09
I was hoping that at least lizards would be able to make a dent in daemon supremacy not due to being completely OP

They sort of will against all magic lists, nothing huge though.

What sucks is a simple "daemonic saves are negated by magic weapons" would fix most, if not all of the book.

Gharof von Carstein
25-02-2009, 13:21
well GW could fix the whole thing and balance out most of the races. make daemons obligated to go mono god. specificy that certain daemons can appear in all armies but most are bound to a single god. that should even things out...

Roxors45
25-02-2009, 14:51
They definitely addressed this issue with Lizards. I take the posters so far arnt lizzie players, but I'm 3-1 against demons now and both an Old blood on Carnosaur, and Magic Heavy build has been viable. A Slann and engine with Light (if they don't have that banner though I did beat it once) or Metal wrecks some serious butt. I think the main problem arrises when Special Characters (who ever decided to use these unbalanced models in tournaments should be slapped) are incooperated into the list. Though to be honest my Slann took Kairos to town resulting in a massacre. Te engine's Burning Alignment tips the scales turn 4 and the Saurus and TG blocks are solid. I really think they gave the crowd a tool to dethrone Demon players or at least give them a 1 in the loss column.

What they also did though was make Lizards balanced enough to lose against armies like Skaven and Dwarfs, not necessarily tournament competitors. That's why Demons still win the tourneys, because Lizards are balanced enough to lose a game based on some bad die rolls despite their strengths. I hope the trend continues and they make the up andcoming armies in a similar light.

slingersam
25-02-2009, 19:34
They definitely addressed this issue with Lizards. I take the posters so far arnt lizzie players, but I'm 3-1 against demons now and both an Old blood on Carnosaur, and Magic Heavy build has been viable. A Slann and engine with Light (if they don't have that banner though I did beat it once) or Metal wrecks some serious butt. I think the main problem arrises when Special Characters (who ever decided to use these unbalanced models in tournaments should be slapped) are incooperated into the list. Though to be honest my Slann took Kairos to town resulting in a massacre. Te engine's Burning Alignment tips the scales turn 4 and the Saurus and TG blocks are solid. I really think they gave the crowd a tool to dethrone Demon players or at least give them a 1 in the loss column.

What they also did though was make Lizards balanced enough to lose against armies like Skaven and Dwarfs, not necessarily tournament competitors. That's why Demons still win the tourneys, because Lizards are balanced enough to lose a game based on some bad die rolls despite their strengths. I hope the trend continues and they make the up andcoming armies in a similar light.

^ What he said, but I think a full steg army will be very cheap, and broken

woodenpickles
25-02-2009, 20:28
I play Chaos, all three, and when the lizards book came out I made a list with it that i think could take out most anything i would throw in a 2k list, but i dont throw greater daemons unless i go to 3k.

Gaargod
25-02-2009, 20:35
Unfortunately not.

Broken, maybe. But cheap they ain't. Taking max stegs doesn't really work too well

However, taking a few less stegs (as in 4 or 5 at 2k instead of 7) gives you the points to really make the list killer i.e. 2 engines priests, skink chief with warspear (which is horrifically effective), some terradons or salamanders.