View Full Version : Cloying quagmire and chariots.

25-02-2009, 20:42
I started to read the warriors book yeaterday and I came across the spell cloying quagmire. It says that every model must take an initiative test in the unit, those who fail must take an armour save if they pass it they die. Now what I was wondering was if I cast it on a chariot, would it auto fail and just take an armour save. If this is the case, does that mean if the crew and steeds take an initiative test, would they form some kind of hybrid unit, similar to Kroxes and skinks, or would they die as well. If not, whose initiative would be used for the test, the crew or the steeds?

Deacon Bane
25-02-2009, 20:55
Tha chariot uses the highest save, in this case the Warriors.

Nurgling Chieftain
25-02-2009, 21:16
Save? A chariot has a single armor save, so that's what's used for the save. The initiative test, however, goes to the highest initiative on the chariot.

26-02-2009, 00:42
Not to mix topics too much but:

Giant's attack states "use lowest initiative value of the enemy model" or something along those lines.
Would a chariot autofail or does it have a dash to note that it is not used at all for that model, as seem to indicate the rules on Chariot profiles?

Basically, Giant's attack rolls the one that does an Initiative test - if failed 2d6 Wounds are taken.
Autofail or not for the Chariot?

And for the topic's main,... topic.. whatever, Cloying Quagmire doesn't make an exception like the Giant's attack so you use the highest value.

26-02-2009, 02:16
A characteristic value is measured between 1 and 10. '-' is not a value between 1 and 10, thusly is ignored.
The Giant attack goes against the lowest value, which would be the steeds.

Nurgling Chieftain
26-02-2009, 03:41
A characteristic value is measured between 1 and 10.No, it goes from 0 to 10. See BRB, page 4, first paragraph, last sentence.

'-' is not a value between 1 and 10, thusly is ignored.No, '-' in a characteristic is just another term for '0'. See BRB, page 5, first sentence.

The Giant attack goes against the lowest value, which would be the steeds.As far as I can tell, the giant auto-hits. ...It's hard for a chariot to "dodge" meaningfully!

26-02-2009, 03:54
Against both Cloying Quagmire and the Giant, I'd say that the Chariot would auto fail. Think about it, if you have a bog suddenly appear beneath your chariot, it would be faily difficult for you do jump out of the way when you are trying to stay on your chariot. A character, however, would test seperate from the chariot. This is how I'd play it, but not neccissarily how tournaments/GW will rule on it.

26-02-2009, 10:26
It doesnt matter on logic - by wording of rules, I would think giant's attack would autohit against a chariot as it specifically mentions for Lowest Value. Cloying Quagmire, regardless of what it would do 'in a real situation' is not worded as such and uses highest value.

26-02-2009, 10:42
Chariots are a unique case in that '-' does not mean '0' but 'this stat is never used'.

Against Cloying Quagmire, the highest value would be used, against Giants the lowest non-hyphen value would be used.

26-02-2009, 10:44
Which is, the highest initiative of 5 for the crew, or more for a character, or 3/4 for the steed.