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Genrazn
27-02-2009, 12:58
What kind of situation would you charge a hero out of a unit?

Since it seems stand and shoot only applies to the unit and the hero is safe from harms way. How would you take advantage of this? A Vampire lord tooled up and charging out of skellies into a warmachine crew. To archers

semersonp
27-02-2009, 13:06
/shrug

say, if your hero was mounted in an M4 unit and you wanted to run down that archmage that just got his dragon shot out from under him who is 10" away...

or the unit your hero is in is facing an important combat that you don't think will resolve itself in the current round and there's a flank charge comin' your way... hero rushes into the fray while the unit turns to take/redirect the would-be flank charge...

rare cases like that... don't look for it, but if a situation arises where it would be advantageous, rock it out... it's just one more tool in your box...

Keller
27-02-2009, 13:29
Since it seems stand and shoot only applies to the unit and the hero is safe from harms way. How would you take advantage of this? A Vampire lord tooled up and charging out of skellies into a warmachine crew. To archers If the hero charges out of a unit, he/she is the charging unit and the target of any stand&shoot response. Very important to know if you are planning on charging a large group of archers; all of those shots will be against the character alone.

As for the tactical use, I have done it on occassion, usually when I don't want to commit the entire unit to such a simple task. If I have a dangerous fighter who can hold his own, I can send just him into a unit of scouts/lone mage/light flyers/whatever while keeping the unit ready to engage a more dangerous enemy.

Or, as semersonp said, you can do it to take advantage of movement differences. If your hero is mounted, has special abilities (such as flight) or just a faster movement value, it can help to charge out to get to your target if you think you can handle them. Vampires are the perfect example. They have a higher base value for movement, can bump it from 6 to 9, or even to 20 with flight, all depending on skills. They can easily launch out of skeletons and hit their opponent instead of waiting another turn. And with as dangerous as they are in combat, they have a good shot against most light units.

Neknoh
27-02-2009, 13:37
No Keller, the shots will be against the unit, the FAQ deemed it like that.

Genrazn
27-02-2009, 13:38
Apparantly that is not the case. All stand and shoot reactions go towards the unit then the character. Says the new faq someone noted in the WE thread

Keller
27-02-2009, 15:35
Interesting. Looks like I need to read up on some new FAQs; I've not seen them.

Excuse me while I take my foot out of my mouth....

MSU
27-02-2009, 20:01
You can also charge characters out of units to take out targets that the unit could not have reached (even if the characters and the foot troops have the SAME movement). The character would not have to wheel as much as the unit and could then hit targets further away laterally. Or, the character can fit through smaller spaces whereas the entire unit could not fit through.

Jericho
27-02-2009, 20:25
Well said, MSU. Some times you can't wheel or there's a smallish gap between units to charge through. Not often the case, but it happens.

Also remember that frenzied characters may some times be forced to leave their unit and charge, when the rest of their unit can't fit the gap/make the wheel.

Makaber
27-02-2009, 20:38
I have a Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount in a unit of Marauders with the express intent of taking people by surprise by charging 16" out of the unit. Of course, it's not something I do all the time but it adds a trick up the sleeve. Recently, I used it when playing against a friends High Elf army; my infantry push was being threatened by a unit of Swordmasters. Had I charged the entire Marauder regiment into the Swordmasters, the regiment would probably just give away easy combat res. However, the Lord alone was able to get in there and crack some heads, protected by his significant armour save. Won two consecutive rounds and eventually ran them down, effectivly making me dominate the centre of the table.

Another neat trick I pulled was with the last edition Dark Elves book, where I was playing a Mighty Empires game agasint a Vampire Count army. I knew he preferred magicy Von Carstein vampires (this was the old VC book as well), so I took a Dark Elf Noble on Dark Steed, gave him a Web of Shadows, and hid him in a unit of Dark Riders to make his intent a little less obvious. First round of the game, he charged out of the unit, directly into the Vampire, dished out his 2d6 hits with a reroll to wound due to a Cauldron of Blood, and subsequently killed his vamp right a way, with quite a comfortable margin.

So that's me bragging. But yes, I do it quite a lot and it's a tactic that shouldn't be underestimated. It can take people by surprise a lot of the time.

snottlebocket
27-02-2009, 22:03
Apparantly that is not the case. All stand and shoot reactions go towards the unit then the character. Says the new faq someone noted in the WE thread

What a rediculous faq decision, doesn't the character become a unit on his own as soon as he decides to go solo and charge out?

selone
27-02-2009, 23:50
Isn't the logic that the unit shooting shoots straight away therefore the character is still in the unit when they shoot?
I've had my general on a boar charge out the unit before (to run down a fleeing unit)

redben
28-02-2009, 02:05
What if the unit is out of range of the missile troops being charged by the character leaving the unit? Usually a unit is shot at as soon as it comes into range. Here it would seem that the character charging out magically extends the range of the missiles.

Angelust
28-02-2009, 02:13
I like to keep Archaon in a unit of marauder horsemen or warriors until some unit strays too close. Once he sees a good target, like flamers of T or something, he rockets ahead and nails them while the warriors/marauders/whatever get shot up.

A lot of times, there's some skirmisher unit impeding your advance, and a regular hero can chase them off while your unit moves up.

Other times you go for a suicide charge to hold up a unit, and then position the unit he was just in to pull of a charge. This can usually work well with mounted characters in MV4-5 units, where the character has a good shot of passing his break test. The downside is he needs to survive the turn you charge, and hope that he doesn't get run down in the subsequent opponent's phase, leading them smack into the unit behind.

Genrazn
28-02-2009, 04:48
I can see lizardmen using skinks to go and charge oput of them heh. Especially with Horned one Magic Mount. 18inch movement just riding in a skink unit and charge out of it :P

selone
28-02-2009, 18:40
What if the unit is out of range of the missile troops being charged by the character leaving the unit? Usually a unit is shot at as soon as it comes into range. Here it would seem that the character charging out magically extends the range of the missiles.

That's easily solvable iirc a unit stand and shooting at a target out of its range waits until the target is at maximum range then shoots. So if the character moved out of his unit further away than their maximum range the troops wouldn't shoot until (s)he reached their maximum range when they would shoot (at the hero)