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Johnnyfrej
27-02-2009, 22:35
I was an old timer Black Legion/Iron Warriors player back in third ed and a little into fourth before I sold my army to pay for my now beloved IG. After my recent advent into Daemons I believe the seed of Chaos has again infected me. However I don't know which Legion I want to start again. I have narrowed it down to a few. I do want to keep my army within its fluff so that is important.

Black Legion Pros: My first 40k army. Easy and distinct color scheme. Can pretty much use anything I want.
Black Legion Cons: Pretty common (Chao's Ultrasmurfs). Have done it before so nothing new. Could get boring painting the same thing.

Iron Warriors Pros: Had several squads of IW in old army. Reflective of my preferred strategy (shoot them a lot). Possibility for renegade artillery FW additions for Apocolypse (big plus). Nice color scheme.
Iron Warriors Cons: I'm not fond of painting, especially repetitive lines. Narrow unit choices (no daemons, raptors, cult marines etc).

Pre-heresy World Eaters Pros: Unique color scheme. Pretty original, haven't seen one before. Can use my Khorne Daemons. Has some love from Forge World with conversions (and that WE Dread with twin Chainfists is just calling my name). "Blood for the Blood God!"
Pre-heresy World Eaters Cons: Some limited units (no other Gods! They iz puny!). I dislike bright armies, prefer darker and grittier.

Red Corsairs Pros: Huron is pretty bad-assed. Color scheme right up my alley. Can use several units (as its a mercenary army I would have no problem using multiple cults). Could make up a character Lord/Sorceror as a Luey for Huron (fluff-wise). Pretty unique, haven't seen one.
Red Corsairs Cons: Color scheme isn't hard, but not easy either. Not much else.

That's pretty much it. Speaking of Red Corsairs what units do you think I should focus on if I did them. I would of course use a variety, but what seems like a "must-have" for Red-Corsairs? Huron with a retinue of Termies in a Land Raider? Lots of Bikers?

For those that don't know, here is a picture of the Red Corsairs and a Pre-heresy World Eater.

Bjornin
27-02-2009, 23:09
Why limit yourself to pre-established armies? with the new C:CSM, GW has paved the way for new chaos armies. I think you'd be best served if you created your own scheme and renegade army rather than going after a staple.

Johnnyfrej
27-02-2009, 23:16
Why limit yourself to pre-established armies? with the new C:CSM, GW has paved the way for new chaos armies. I think you'd be best served if you created your own scheme and renegade army rather than going after a staple.
While that has occured to me, I would rather create my own Character/Warband out of an existing Legion and simply make fluff about that character.

If I did do something like that it would be this idea of a Warband called the Iron Soldiers. They were a sect of Iron Warriors that broke contact with the Legion after the Heresy because of a difference of beliefs. They are much more liberal in their views and use Chaos much more than the mainstream Warriors. Also their color scheme wouldn't use the Stripes but look more like the DoW style Iron Warriors.

Bjornin
27-02-2009, 23:31
Honestly I'd go with that one. It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into it, and you get a nice hybridization of Corsairs and Iron Warriors. With your Iron Soldiers(TM), you can claim the fluff you write as your own, and few people will argue that "your fluff is wrong ... blah blah blah".

It's a win-win in my book. You get the recognition of IW with the variety of Black Legion or Red Corsairs. You could also start a project log (if you have time) and I'm sure you could gather a decent following.

The_Outsider
27-02-2009, 23:38
IW

Why? I love some delicious irony.

Sideros Peltarion
28-02-2009, 00:04
Narrow unit choices (no daemons, raptors, cult marines etc).


Not strictly true there. While Iron Warriors are not known for using Daemon packs (though they still have Princes and Possessed), they would still use Raptors and also they are known for using Berzerkers. They even appear in the Storm of Iron book, so you aren't quite as limited as you think with Iron Warriors.

Johnnyfrej
28-02-2009, 00:23
Not strictly true there. While Iron Warriors are not known for using Daemon packs (though they still have Princes and Possessed), they would still use Raptors and also they are known for using Berzerkers. They even appear in the Storm of Iron book, so you aren't quite as limited as you think with Iron Warriors.
I know, having read Storm of Iron was the reason I added Iron Warriors to my Black Legion warband :D

What I ment was I don't feel they have much a place in my IW army if I made one. My IW army would look something like this:

HQ
Termy Lord
Termy Sorceror

Elites
Termies 1 (with Lord and Land Raider)
Termies 2 (with Sorceror and Land Raider)
Dreadnought (sweet FW Iron Warrior one http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/ironwarriors.htm)

Troops
Converted Chaos Marines with Iron Warrior bitz-orders from GW
Rhinos with Iron Warrior doors

Fast Attack
Probably bikers with Iron Warrior shoulder bitz

Heavy Support
Oblits
Oblits
Vindicator

Darkseid
28-02-2009, 04:12
I love the versatility of the Black Legion so that gets my vote.

holmcross
28-02-2009, 04:15
There are people out there that actually like Red Corsairs? :confused:

I went with Pre-Heresy World Eaters because I just love the white and blue armor: its totally contradictory to what you'd expect it to be.

Juggernaut246
28-02-2009, 04:31
I Voted for Iron Warriors, but really, Word Bearers are where its at :P

Johnnyfrej
28-02-2009, 04:35
There are people out there that actually like Red Corsairs? :confused:

I went with Pre-Heresy World Eaters because I just love the white and blue armor: its totally contradictory to what you'd expect it to be.
I'm quite partial to the Mercenary/Rogue type armies and factions. I also like the Red Corsairs because I can play them similar to Black Legion as my army would consist of mostly Mercs and would allow me to field a multi-legion army.

Desalbert
28-02-2009, 04:44
I voted Corsairs; Mercenary life!

qwertywraith
28-02-2009, 14:29
For me it comes down to colour scheme. Black legion and Iron Warriors do not look good unless done exceptionally well (and even then we don't need ANOTHER black army).

I voted Red Corsairs because the red, black, and gold is very striking and can be done quite brightly (and you can more easily justify throwing in units with different colour schemes). Pre-heresy World Eaters would be my second choice.

Eryx_UK
28-02-2009, 15:17
I've not seen a Corsairs army so I voted for that one.

AdmiralDick
28-02-2009, 15:52
i've voted for Pre-Heresy World Eaters. personally, i would build an army that is usable with both the C: CSM and C: BA, as it will prove to be a more valuable asset to you personally in the long run.

i haven't voted for the IW because a) the world and his mother has an IW army and b) i'm still far from convinced that you can make a decent IW list from any of the codexes currently available (all the IW armies i have seen have been very middle of the road and no fun to play against). i didn't vote for the Black Legion because a) again, they are massively popular already, so you are unlikely to get any kudos and b) again, i can't really see anything interesting about fielding an army of them currently. the Red Corsairs are just a terrible idea in my book. they need some serious background work before they will become anything that i can respect.


they would still use Raptors

i would say that that is a matter still open to debate. the IA article from which most understanding of their tactics is taken could easily be interpreted as saying that they do not utilise specialist combat units. preferring that all units take to the fray when the moment arises.


also they are known for using Berzerkers.

i think this is a misrepresentation of the facts. they are not 'known for using Berzerkers'. if you asked some one, "what special about the IW?" they would not say, "they use Berzerkers". in fact it would be unlikely to feature in the top 10 answers that people would give.

a better statement would be, 'IW are known to use Berzerkers'. this does not mean that they are more prone to use Berzerkers than anyone else, nor does it in fact mean that they are more prone to use Berzerkers more than any other form of cult troop (which has never been indicated as being true).

Sideros Peltarion
28-02-2009, 16:34
i would say that that is a matter still open to debate. the IA article from which most understanding of their tactics is taken could easily be interpreted as saying that they do not utilise specialist combat units. preferring that all units take to the fray when the moment arises.



i think this is a misrepresentation of the facts. they are not 'known for using Berzerkers'. if you asked some one, "what special about the IW?" they would not say, "they use Berzerkers". in fact it would be unlikely to feature in the top 10 answers that people would give.

a better statement would be, 'IW are known to use Berzerkers'. this does not mean that they are more prone to use Berzerkers than anyone else, nor does it in fact mean that they are more prone to use Berzerkers more than any other form of cult troop (which has never been indicated as being true).

As for the Raptors, fair point though I don't see why they would decide not to use them from a tactical perspective as they could be very valuable to a commander. Although I don't have any Raptors yet myself I will be adding some soon to go with the jump pack Lord I bought a while ago.

As for Berzerkers it was simply a slight wording error. Whoop de skip.:rolleyes:
So I used for instead of to I doubt most people would take that to mean I am suggesting Iron Warriors have huge proportions of their armies as Berzerkers, simply that they do use them.

ShadowDeth
28-02-2009, 16:57
Johnnyfrej - I understand and, strangely, deeply respect your commitment to adhering to the game's fluff. Things like

"Iron Warriors Pros: Had several squads of IW in old army. Reflective of my preferred strategy (shoot them a lot). Possibility for renegade artillery FW additions for Apocolypse (big plus). Nice color scheme.
Iron Warriors Cons: I'm not fond of painting, especially repetitive lines. Narrow unit choices (no daemons, raptors, cult marines etc)."

Show me that you have an actual commitment to the integrity of the game, and not just "Hurh hurh 9 obliterators 4 heavies".

But, as you probably know now reading over the latest CSM book, a lot of our flavor is now in our heads...limited to paint schemes. There are token banners and four marked units, but they really don't feel the same.

So in light of that, my suggestion is to take the units you simply like playing with, re-fluff them completely (Why wouldn't Iron warriors have a dedicated CC unit? - for example), and write your own Legion background.

I wouldn't limit myself to one theme.

malisteen
28-02-2009, 18:20
Honestly, I'd go with your homebrew, with Red Corsairs as a runner up good choice. Don't pick something you'll have a hard time painting to your satisfaction, you'll regret it in the long term.

Johnnyfrej
01-03-2009, 17:58
Johnnyfrej - I understand and, strangely, deeply respect your commitment to adhering to the game's fluff.
Thanks for that :D


"Iron Warriors Pros: Had several squads of IW in old army. Reflective of my preferred strategy (shoot them a lot). Possibility for renegade artillery FW additions for Apocolypse (big plus). Nice color scheme.
Iron Warriors Cons: I'm not fond of painting, especially repetitive lines. Narrow unit choices (no daemons, raptors, cult marines etc)."

Show me that you have an actual commitment to the integrity of the game, and not just "Hurh hurh 9 obliterators 4 heavies".
I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I ever used 9 Obliterators. My strategy of "shoot them a lot" comes from me being an Artilleryman and long time IG player. I simply prefer to shoot someone instead of running at them with a Chainsword.


But, as you probably know now reading over the latest CSM book, a lot of our flavor is now in our heads...limited to paint schemes. There are token banners and four marked units, but they really don't feel the same.

So in light of that, my suggestion is to take the units you simply like playing with, re-fluff them completely (Why wouldn't Iron warriors have a dedicated CC unit? - for example), and write your own Legion background.
To the first I know the new CSM is has gone bland but I was going to use the Iron Warrior Bitz and Shoulders from direct order to make them look more like Iron Warriors and not just CSM painted that way.
To the second I think I already mentioned my idea of the Iron Soldiers Warhost.

On another note what do people think of the Alpha Legion? I did like their older fluff and their new fluff from Legion makes them a more tempting army to play. I thought about converting an Alpha Legion Daemon Prince by using the parts from the Dark Elf War Hydra to make him more snake-like. What do you think about this idea?

susu.exp
01-03-2009, 18:27
I think Legion added a lot of depth to the AL background and while I thought they were pretty meh before, the book really made them a cool army (and they´re still relatively rare). I think a cool theme would be to have a "mirror" list, with everything in duplicates, then paint one half with blue armour, green scale patterns and green trim, the other half with green armour, blue scale patterns and blue trim. For things you only want one of, you could paint the two schemes on the two sides of the model.

If AL was in the poll, it´d get my vote.

Lungboy
01-03-2009, 18:46
Wouldn't a Pre-Heresy World Eaters army not feature any Daemons or other Chaos-specific units at all?

starlight
01-03-2009, 19:00
I think Legion added a lot of depth to the AL background and while I thought they were pretty meh before, the book really made them a cool army (and they´re still relatively rare). I think a cool theme would be to have a "mirror" list, with everything in duplicates, then paint one half with blue armour, green scale patterns and green trim, the other half with green armour, blue scale patterns and blue trim. For things you only want one of, you could paint the two schemes on the two sides of the model.

If AL was in the poll, it´d get my vote.

*Halving* or *quartering* the paint scheme, while harder, could be awesome if done right. :)


Wouldn't a Pre-Heresy World Eaters army not feature any Daemons or other Chaos-specific units at all?

It would depend on *how far* Pre-Heresy the army was. Decades or centuries? Nope, not many Daemons. Weeks or months? Maybe moreso...

Johnnyfrej
01-03-2009, 22:34
Wouldn't a Pre-Heresy World Eaters army not feature any Daemons or other Chaos-specific units at all?
It would only be Pre-heresy in color scheme but would still use daemons and whatnot.

Anyway I have decided on Alpha Legion. Once my Renegade Strike Force comes in I'll start a painting log for it. Thanks for all your input.