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dragonstrike
28-02-2009, 00:04
one of my friends is thinking about getting into warhammer. they are interested in making an beast of chaos army led by a doombull and minotaurs. just wondering if this army can work.

CaliforniaGamer
28-02-2009, 00:16
one of my friends is thinking about getting into warhammer. they are interested in making an beast of chaos army led by a doombull and minotaurs. just wondering if this army can work.

Definitely, its quite common too. Would direct you towards the herdstone website for army lists.
Personally though beasts of chaos are very poor performers until they get a new book out for 7th ed.

dragonstrike
28-02-2009, 00:27
which is the next army book to be redone? perhaps I should tell my friend to wait for beasts of chaos book if they are next

decker_cky
28-02-2009, 01:12
Beasts look like they're about 1 year away from being redone (possibly even more). Skaven are being remade next.

iaguz
28-02-2009, 01:13
Under the ETC restrictions, Beasts actually have quite a bit of promise as a competitive army I reckon.

Anyway, the Doombull is the BEST Lord choice for Beastmen. The Great Bray Shaman is only LD 7 (and you're going to need good leadership in your army, it's a pack of *********** cowards), and the Beastlord cannot kill people at a good enough rate. Ambush SEEMS like a nifty ability, but it can backfire badly and you don't always really need to use it. The Doombull is probably the best because he's the cloutiest and he's LD9.

Minotaurs as Core isn't really that amazing though, because minotaurs aren't the best unit around. If you want a unit of middleweights, take Dragon Ogres. If you want more, consider taking Chaos Trolls (4 str 5 attacks each + regen + vomit = win. 55 pts each, a steal). Take one unit of minotaurs to go with the Doombull, but no more then that (also remember to keep the Doombull and the Chaos Trolls close by, they're going to need his LD 9 for their stupidity tests).

As for marks, I'd keep the Doombull undivided. Why? Because you're going to want tuskgor chariots and you're going to want them Mark of Tzeentch (for 105 pts you get a chariot that gives you a power dice. Add in 3 of them, and you'll find 2 lvl 2 shamans burn through 9 power dice a phase. Not bad for 361pts (I have 2 scrolls with my shamans, plus the Staff of Darkoth and Braystaffs), especially since the shaman can bash some heads in with his Braystaff as well.

But you don't really want your Doombull to be Tzeentch because then EVERYONE'S going to have to be Tzeentch. Including him. In my experience, lvl 2 Tzeentch sorcerers suck, the Beastmen lore of Tzeentch is built for lvl 4's only (which is only Beastlords).

In conclusion, Doom Bulls are probably your best bet for a viable Beastmen army.

Baron Von Rotten
02-03-2009, 01:57
I occasionally play with a Doombull and 20+ Minotaurs (with GW). I usually give them the Mark of Khorne. Throw in some Centaurs, a Giant, and a Shaggoth, and you have a whole army of Big Uglies. The 9+ Dispel dice come in Handy too.

dragonstrike
02-03-2009, 02:57
my main worry is if they get updated they are going to lose all the stuff that went into the warriors of chaos book.

lcfr
02-03-2009, 04:22
If your friend is going to start Beasts he should probably just write a small list and buy the models he'll need to play it. Beasts may undergo a lot of radical changes, so I think it'd be best to wait until the new army book comes out; rumours of losing the WoC monsters means that most BoC special and rare choices will be wasted investments for new players. Buying centigors, minotaurs, bestigors, and beast herds obviously won't hurt, but all in all it may be best to wait it out for awhile before really diving into BoC.

Amornar
02-03-2009, 06:22
I don't have much experience with beasts but I have always been a fan of two minotaur units: Khorne minotaurs because of the extra dispel dice and the extra attack, either 4 S6 attacks or 5 S4 attacks, both have their uses and Nurgle Minotaurs, something about Minotaurs that usually have no armor save having a 4+ armor save just makes me smile.

I also agree with some of the above comments of adding Trolls, defiantly worth their points. Tuskagor chariots of any variety are AMAZING for their price. Warhounds are also really important, especially for helping screen your frenzy units, flanking, going after warmachines, fast cav, they pretty much do it all.

Beasts' strength is in their movement with lots of skirmishers and other fast movers, they can be good at combat but many units need some support. No shooting units so nothing there, but they can do pretty good in the magic phase with some bray-shamans as someone else has said. Their main weakness is their LD which the Doombull is really nice for negating. Don't forget champs on beast herds, their extra LD is important.

Hope that helps,

Amornar

iaguz
02-03-2009, 08:59
Oh yeah, that's another bit. Tuskgor chariots. Take at least 3. They are your friends, very good friends. This is why:

* Always Strikes First units/armies are going to have a field day slaughtering you. Try fighting High Elves with tuskgor chariots and then try it without them. Note the HUGE difference between having units which can remove the enemy's front rank (or most of it, pesky Phoenix Guard) before they ASF you to buggery, and being without them.
* They're cheap, can be given some decent marks (tzeentch is the best, although Khorne is decent too).
* They got excellent clout, and in an army that wins combats through clouting people you just cannot ignore something that can dish out that much clout for so few points.
* They're just fast enough. Although they struggle to keep up with the main force they do have a 14" charge and a free turn in the movement phase. NEVER forget that free turn. It's a godsend.

Also, Warhounds are your other friends. Here's what you can do with them:

* Keep them in a corner for the table quarter. Not a very brave thing to do but sometimes you just have to. 30pts of doggies nets 100vps of table quarter. Not too bad at all.
* Angle them to **** people off. In a recent tourney game my opponent fielded 2 large knight units with characters on both flanks. In response, I ran up a doggie unit (and a centigor unit as well, but you can just use doggies for this) right up to them but angled them so that if the opponent charges them, they are angled away from the main battleline. After they predictably rout the poor doggies they have to spend another turn getting back into position before charging you. THIS IS VITAL. You are buying yourself precious time. Use it well. Also note that Hatred opponents MUST pursue and Frenzy MUST overrun, so you can really get those overzealous Blood Knights or Cold One Knights out of the way.
* Screening. Frenzied units have to charge what they see, but sometimes this isn't a wise choice (perhaps there is a Bloodthirster nearby?). Keeping a unit of warhounds in front of your frenzied unit is a good way to stop them from going nuts. The only tricky part with screening is the appropriate removal of the screen, which can sometimes be very tricky to pull off. Practice this technique.
* Remember that doggies that die still cause panic. Try not to lose any units like this (personally, I reckon there should be a clause where it says Warhounds do NOT cause panic, but I somehow get this crazy idea that GW thinks doggies should actually be used in non-sacrificial roles. Crazy, I know).
* Run them at war machines. Although not very applicable if there's a hill, a unit of doggies are great to run at a warmachine. If they shoot your doggies, that's great. They're only 30 pt sacrifices, just kill the little *****. See what you care. If they ignore them, also great. Charging a crew might kill it, or at least stop them firing for a turn or two. As an additional, don't run them at shooters. They'll just ignore you, then stand and shoot and finish you (and there's a good chance you won't survive combat either).

Remember, doggies have NO real combat effectiveness. They are there to be put down in a constructive manner, nothing else.

Final thing to love about Beasts; Dragon Ogres with Great weapons. Why? They're str 7. They are your best nut crackers. Nuff said.

mrtn
02-03-2009, 10:28
I'd wait with the minotaurs for the rumoured/"it'd be silly not to make them" plastic minos that should come with the new armybook. At least if the person in question think that the current minos are ugly and expensive, which I do.
I'd start small with a couple of beastherd boxes (AHW on the gors, no shields on the ungors) and a GW lord and paint that up waiting for the big day.

I'd also check out The Herdstone (http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index.php?act=idx).

BenTheRat
02-03-2009, 14:36
@laguz, tell that to my unit of 5 warhounds that took down a treeman once.

Passed terror test at beginning of turn, passed fear to charge, won combat, treeman failed his break test and warhounds ran him down. Dogs for 30 points can do a ton for you.

And while at this point I'd start small and wait for the new book, that could be 10+ months away. You friend may have lost interest by then. Again let me also recommend the Herdstone. Great place.

But Beasts of chaos are still very competitive. I ran them last year with a Doombull, 5 units of minoaturs, 3 chaos hounds, 2 chariots, 2 herds, 2 spawn. I went to 2 Grand tournaments and got a 3rd overall at the Hillbilly and 1st overall at the Lonewolf with them.

Harwammer
02-03-2009, 14:42
"all of you Beasts of Chaos players
can rest assured that we have already begun
to work on the new edition of the army
book." -GW ~may 2008

Seeing as they are taking atleast a year and a half to write the book (if you can believe them :rolleyes:) you'd think it is going to be the best damn army book ever written.

For now I'd follow mrtn's advice.

I'd also consier buying 4 boxes of spawn. Use these boxes to make 4 spawn (slaanesh are best) and use the bull heads/cloven hoof bodies to make 4 minotaurs. Try to beg some ogre weapons off a friend to kit them up :D

Keller
02-03-2009, 14:54
One of the guys in our group runs a mino-beast army. It usually preferms quite well. He plays Nurgle, equiping his mino's with AHW's and light armor for a 4+ save and 4 S4 attacks. He backs them with a few beastherds and some centigors.

All in all, it is a very fun army, usually quite competetive, and looks fantastic on the table.

blackjack
02-03-2009, 15:29
I don't know why everyone states that Beastmen are not competitive. My poor lizardman was slaughtered by a herd of mark of khorne bestagors with a standard of +1 attack and great weapons. 3 str 6 ws 4 attacks from 12pt core troops that move 5 and skirmish! Then there was the general whom turned most of my army into spawn... It was'nt pretty I tell you.

Amornar
02-03-2009, 17:52
Bestigors are not skirmish troops....

mrtn
02-03-2009, 18:06
Amornar, blackjack talks about an army lead by Morghur, who makes all troops skirmished. :)

Harwammer
02-03-2009, 19:05
Amornar, blackjack talks about an army lead by Morghur, who makes all troops skirmished. :)

Morghur makes all troops unruly; he only makes bestigors skirmish (raiders). Blackjack could have avoided getting his army spawnified by not getting too close to him :D

Also, did your oppoenent remember to take all his unruly tests? I hope so; it seems to me many Morghur users conveniently forget this rule. Regarding the khornegors, to be fair, the banner he used requires a BSB (2 wounds, 5+ save, no ward at best, not hard to kill!) and only works on the charge. And Cornygors are about 14-16 points each since you must pay for their mark; The unit must have cost at least 400 points since it had a bsb in.

Edit: and frenzied skirmishers, not exactly hard to divert!

Amornar
02-03-2009, 22:39
Amornar, blackjack talks about an army lead by Morghur, who makes all troops skirmished. :)

wow.......that's pretty good. If he didn't give the unruly rule to everything I might be tempted to start a beasts army. Regardless though beasts are a good army with some great models. Especially when you get some time down with the current book and get a head of the learning curve that the new book will bring.

fastcarfreak
05-03-2009, 19:06
I have always had success with my beast army. I really do like doom bulls btw!!

weirdo2590
05-03-2009, 22:05
Seeing as they are taking atleast a year and a half to write the book (if you can believe them :rolleyes:) you'd think it is going to be the best damn army book ever written.


*cough dark eldar* *cough* *cough ten years* *cough*

On topic, If your using Morgur one of his best qualities is sitting nect to a wall of hounds and turning them into much more powerful spawn.