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HsojVvad
28-02-2009, 16:36
Well I just saw the WotR quick set rules, and have one question so far.

When rolling for Priority, is it like in SBG? From what I read it seems like it, but there is no mention of a tie. So if you roll a tie, does the person who didn't have priority get it like in SBG or do you just reroll in WotR?

Also can you reroll a reroll, or you can only reroll once? I can see it funny if you can't reroll on priority, a second time if it is tied again. :D

Cherubael
28-02-2009, 17:34
Priority works virtually the same as SBG with the exception that Good doesnt go first on the first turn. If its a tie afaik you reroll. But i could be wrong about that.

Garoth
28-02-2009, 17:51
Ties are re-rolled, making it different from the SBG (where the side that did not have the Priority last turn gets it in the case of tie).

EDIT: Acutually in rules terms the tie in Priority is not resolved with a "Re-roll", but rather with a "Roll-off", and therefore the "re-rolling only once" clause is avoided.

lotrchampion
28-02-2009, 21:29
When rolling for priority, the winner chooses who has priority. In the case of a draw, you roll off-the higher scorer automatically gets priority.

Another thing not answered in the Quick Start is Throwing Weapons. So here you go:

Throwing Weapons have a range of 6" normally, and are thrown in the SHooting phase. You can charge after throwing them. You roll an amount of dice equal to half of the attacks of the number of models in the company, rounding up. Then apply normal shooting modifiers (supporting unit, high SV, etc). These attacks are at the formation's strength.

Examples: Unit of Rohan Miltia. 8 models, SV 4+. 4 shots, +1 for SV for a total of 5. at Strength 3.

Ent. 1 model, SV 4+. 3 attacks normally, halved (rounded up) for 2, +1 for SV, total of 3 at Str8.


--------

I think thats all that isn't covered, but if not, let me know.

Garoth
01-03-2009, 00:50
Ah, they finally to put in the Priority rule that I had always wanted in LOTR (winner can choose to first or last). And then I manage to miss it when going through the rules...

VeriNasti
01-03-2009, 02:41
What does fight do in WOTR? I know that monsters strike first, then cavalry then footman but what does fight do for you?
Also, what are the charge bonuses for WOTR?

lotrchampion
01-03-2009, 03:12
All in the Quick Start rules, found on the GW website. Shouldn't take much finding, I believe theres a link on the LotR main page. That should answer these questions.

lorelorn
01-03-2009, 03:35
I notice in the Quickstart Rules that the strength of a longbow is now 2 rather than 3 as it is in the SBG, is this the same for elf bows too?

Lord_Goober
01-03-2009, 04:02
Yes. All bows are str 2 now, and when shooting at beyond half range are str 1.

rakath
01-03-2009, 07:15
The quickstart rules doesn't tell what "Fight" does. Some weapons are listed as "+1 to hit", others add to Fight. What's the difference?

There's so much that's not covered in those 2 pages, that you really can't test out the rules.

Karnage
01-03-2009, 10:18
From what I played in the demo games yesterday, the difference in Fight can mean additional attacks given. I think it's something like +1 attack for every point of Fight you have higher than the opponent. Combined with something like the Epic Strike ability, which makes the unit Fight 10 for that turn, it means you can throw out a high number of attacks when you need to :D

Mouldsta
01-03-2009, 13:09
The Fight value is what determines how many dice you get to roll in CC, in the form of extra bonus dice (so elves with elven blades get a lot of attacks!). These attacks then roll on the Hit table, which compares Strength to Defense (and is virtually identical to the SBG chart), and any successful hits = casualties.

The most amusing fight I've seen so far is Elves vs Goblins (equal points) - both have an absolute ton of attacks (one through skill the other through numbers), and both have low defense, so there's massive casualties on both sides.

thorgrim
01-03-2009, 15:14
Does anyone know where it says in the WotR book that the list containing the ents (can't remember the name) can only be a allied faction? I had a look and couldn't see it anywhere. I know that a epic hero is needed to lead the force and a common unit is needed to satisfy the minimum requirements. But the list includes the three named wizards (Saruman, Radagast, Gandalf) as epic heroes and has common units (Hobbits, Ents, Eagles) and so the list could be used as a stand alone army.

Garoth
01-03-2009, 16:02
That can be found on page 85, under "Choose a Faction".

VeriNasti
02-03-2009, 00:50
Thanks for clarifying the fight value prob guys

blkdymnd
02-03-2009, 00:52
I will post my first game questions here (i also did in another thread, but this seems more appropriate):

Questions!
Terror vs. Terror: It states nowhere that Terror is immune to Terror. So is it correct then, that if I have a Wraith in a mounted company charge a Cave Troll, the Wraith would have to make a check to charge, then the Troll would have to check to stay courageous?

Why is there a + in the Accuracy value? It is useless and is very confusing for new players, because it tricks you into thinking there is an actual to hit roll instead of the normal S vs D roll. There was no reason to include it as far as we could tell.

Fall Back: When it says you face directly towards your table edge when falling back (after picking the spearhead for the fallback), does that mean definately perpindicular to the table edge, or does it mean as long as the table edge is in the front arc? We played it as you go perpindicular after picking the spearhead to lead the fall back, as it seemed to be worded that way, but it could be taken either way.

When you are at the end of the Fight phase, and have to seperate as you can never end a fight in base to base, does that mean you have to charge again to fight, thus gaining the charge bonus for a 1mm charge?

Ok, I charge cavalry into a goblin formation. I only have 2 archer cav, but do kill 5 goblins. the goblins do enough back to me to eliminate the horsemen which is 2 casualties. I did 5 casualties to his 2 casualties, but I was eliminated. It says nowhere in the book that the Victor has to be around at the end of the fight phase, so we played that the goblins still took a panic test. Was that correct? Seems so.

And Counterspells in general seemed above our new game patience. How do they work exactly?

Joewrightgm
02-03-2009, 01:13
Terror vs. Terror: both units would test for Terror since they don't cancel each other out.

The shoot value is there to show if the player gets any extra dice when shooting. Basically take you're shoot value and subtract from 5; this is how many additional dice you get per company.

Sorry, got nothing on the fall back.

Not sure about the eliminated before victor is worked out.

Best way to explain counterspells: you cast the spell infeeble on an enemy. Then the enemy casts another spell. If it is a counterspell to Infeeble, then the effects of Infeeble are neutralized.

blkdymnd
02-03-2009, 01:17
The shoot value is there to show if the player gets any extra dice when shooting. Basically take you're shoot value and subtract from 5; this is how many additional dice you get per company.



I realize that, but the '+' in it is useless. And as I said, is misleading for new players. It just confuses things, and should have just been a value of say, 3/4 instead of 3/4+

Nightsword
02-03-2009, 01:23
I have a question or two stemming from the quickstart rules; I ain't seen the book yet.

It says that shields increase the defense by 2 which is shown in a bracket next to the D value. The morannon orcs profile printed on the scenario didn't have a number in brackets next to the defense value, so is it therefore included, or should it have been added on, making them D7?

I played a situation where one company of morannon orcs charged a high elf warrior formation in the flank, and a troll charged them in the front. The elves were already down to 7 "men". The troll strikes first and kills 2, leaving 5 elves. When the infantry now fight simultaneously, do you start from the number of wounds the company had at the start of the fight i.e. 7, or do you roll with 5 attacks?

Are the extra dice from a high shooting value per formation or per company? For example, I have 2 companies of high elf archers with a 3+SV, so get two extra shots. Is that two per company, or two for the formation of 16 elves?

EDIT: Joewrightgm says per company XD Ninja'd!

Cheers guys.

Joewrightgm
02-03-2009, 01:32
I noticed that in the quick start rules; the Morannons would be D 5 (7) in the front, and the orcs would be D 3 (5) to the front.

The troll strikes first, kills 2, leaving 5. You would strike with only 5 attacks, because those elves died before their turn. Think of it like initiative steps in 40k or fantasy.

So yeah, those two companies of elven bowmen would roll 20 dice (8+8= 16 +2 +2= 20)

Znail
02-03-2009, 02:53
I realize that, but the '+' in it is useless. And as I said, is misleading for new players. It just confuses things, and should have just been a value of say, 3/4 instead of 3/4+

Hmm, the first value is better the higher it is and the second the lower, right? I think they added the + to show that.

[edit]A quick question! Do you get less attacks when your Fight value is lower then the opponents, or is it only a bonus when yours are higher?

blkdymnd
02-03-2009, 03:11
it's only a bonus when it's higher. lower gives you zero bonus.

borithan
02-03-2009, 08:37
From what I played in the demo games yesterday, the difference in Fight can mean additional attacks given. I think it's something like +1 attack for every point of Fight you have higher than the opponent.I think so too.



Combined with something like the Epic Strike ability, which makes the unit Fight 10 for that turn, it means you can throw out a high number of attacks when you need to :DGrr... Boromir Epic Struck with a large unit of Gondorians against my Harad during the battle I had... I thi8nk I had one company left out of 3 by the time that fight was over, and I think I killed 2 guys in return.



Why is there a + in the Accuracy value? It is useless and is very confusing for new players, because it tricks you into thinking there is an actual to hit roll instead of the normal S vs D roll. There was no reason to include it as far as we could tell.I have to say I agree here... in fact, I don't know why they just don't have an "Accuracy bonus" stat which just states how many extra dice you get, rather than having the stat, which then you convert to get the accuracy bonus (so the seeming normal of 4+ would be "1" instead, 5+ being "0" etc). Must just be to maintain more similarities with the normal game.

The Adept
02-03-2009, 09:19
Someone mentioned that you can't end a Fight phase in contact with the enemy - units get pushed back. This is the first I heard of this. Can someone clarify, because I saw it played as you stay stuck in combat, and that'll have a huge impact on the game.

rakath
02-03-2009, 09:43
Haven't got the book, but the quickstart rules state that after CC the formations are separated by 1".

It seems that a lot of times people running those preview games don't remember all the rules, and just substitute stuff from Fantasy Battle. I've read a lot of conflicting rumours about the game, and it seems FB is getting mixed up there a lot.

erion
02-03-2009, 10:21
The Quickstart rules say you get bonus dice in the fight phase for rolling a 6 on your charge roll, but I couldn't find what those bonuses were.

borithan
02-03-2009, 13:16
Well, you roll a d3 and get that many bonus dice per company in base contact, and thats on top of the +1 for charging in the first place.

At least that was the way it was done in the demo games I watched and played in.

Triphos
02-03-2009, 14:17
What's the attack bonus for charging cavalry again? Is it a d3? I can't remember, I know infantry get a +1, but I also remember that cavalry gets a bigger bonus.

blkdymnd
02-03-2009, 14:54
What's the attack bonus for charging cavalry again? Is it a d3? I can't remember, I know infantry get a +1, but I also remember that cavalry gets a bigger bonus.

you get 6 for charging cav

Godswildcard
02-03-2009, 14:59
**all of my examples use the Uruk-Hai w/ heavy armor and shields (D7?) as the opponent for my elves

glaives give a +1 to the fight charactaristic and are the only things listed on the quickstart rules for the elves (in the sample scenario). Am I correct in thinking that this gives the elves a fight of 7, and such gives +3 attacks against the Uruk-Hai?

Would it be better to have +3 attacks and need sixes to wound (glaives), or would it be better to use the elven blades as two handed weapons (assuming I still have that option), just get +1 attack and only need fives to wound?

assume two formations of High Elves vs. 2 formations of Uruk-Hai

The elves (using glaives) make 22 attacks (8+8+3+3) needing sixes, so a 1/6 chance of inflicting a casualty, so 4 casualties against the Uruk-Hai. Uruk-Hai strike with 16 attacks (8+8) against the elves needing fives, so a 1/3 chance of inflicting a casualty. so about 5 casualties. Uruk-Hai win.

*Change Scenario*

The elves (using two handed weapons) make 18 attacks (8+8+1+1) needing fives, so a 1/3 chance of a casualty and do 6 casualties. Uruk-Hai repeat above and do 5(ish) casualties, elves win.

Sooo....Elven blades are still better....
Thoughts? Is my math terrible?

TwilightOdyssey
02-03-2009, 15:44
Does WotR make the previous LotR game obsolete? Can you use the previous supplements with the new rules set?

I would love to use the new rules in playing some of the smaller scenarios for LotR, such as Flight To The Ford. Does WotR's rules set even support small games like this?

Thanks in advance!

Mouldsta
02-03-2009, 16:10
WoTR in no way makes the LoTR game obsolete, they're both going to exist and both going to be supported, the best way to think about it is as a completely new game (which is what it is) that just happens to use the same models (hooray!).

There is no real minimum size game for WoTR - you need to have either an epic hero or legendary formation to lead your army, and the minimum sized unit is one company (8 men on a base), so you could turn up with just faramir's rangers (faramir + 7 rangers).

Now I wouldn't suggest actually playing like this (just like you "can" play 40k with 11 marines, or fantasy with 11 chaos models), but small scale games are certainly doable

In terms of the previous supplements, all the rules for units are in the WoTR book. In terms of scenarios, you'd have to adjust the units taken slightly, but they should be alright.

Regarding seperating 1" after a fight - yes you do, so you need to charge again. A particularly nasty trick is knights of dol amroth (3 companies) with Imrahil charging a block of infantry, getting the "unstoppable charge" result (which dol amroth knights get 50% of the time), and declaring both heroic fight and epic strike. They'd have 6 attacks normally, +18 for charging, + D3 per company +2 due to Fight (assuming opponent is F3) +7 for epic strike, so about 39 lance attacks. Assuming they won (likely), then because they declared a heroic fight, they can charge again and repeat the above, in the same combat phase.

TwilightOdyssey
02-03-2009, 16:11
Thank you, Mouldsta!! :)

Godswildcard
02-03-2009, 16:33
Does every company in my army need a command group? How does that work/ how does the command group need to be distributed?

Mouldsta
02-03-2009, 16:39
You have formations and companies. A company is 8 men on a base (2 for cav). A formation is made up of a certain number of companies (generally somewhere between 1 and 9).
The first company chosen for any formation is automatically the command group (no actual bonuses or cost so far). That company must always be at the front of the formation.
You may upgrade the command company with options such as standards, captains etc, but those models must go in that command company.

Hope that makes sense

Venerable_Bede
02-03-2009, 17:39
I'm just basing these questions on the Quickstart Rules:

1. It seems that companies must stay in base contact. If so, what's the significance of the rules saying you move companies in a formation one at a time?

2. What is the target of a shooting attack; a company or a formation? If a formation, who allocates the hits among the companies?

3. The rules say you roll a number of attack dice equal to the attack value, and that in hand to hand fighting this is reduced by -1 for each casualty suffered. Does this mean you don't reduce the number of attack dice when shooting based on casualties?

4. Do only companies in base to base contact get to attack? Or does the entire formation get to attack if any of its companies are in contact?

5. I still don't understand what the Fight Value does (the Quick Start doesn't say). Can you explain this further?

6. The QS rules say you get bonus dice for attacks when charging and you roll a 6. It doesn't say what those bonus dice are. Also, just to be clear, this means that you don't automatically get bonus dice when you charge; instead you get them only when you roll a 6 when charging. Is that right?

Thanks.

Venerable_Bede
02-03-2009, 17:49
I realize that, but the '+' in it is useless. And as I said, is misleading for new players. It just confuses things, and should have just been a value of say, 3/4 instead of 3/4+

What is this shooting value everyone is speaking about? It doesn't appear on the profiles provided with the starter scenario.

(or is it the number under "F" to the right of the slash? Since models that don't have bows also have this I wasn't sure).

thorgrim
02-03-2009, 18:21
1: You first move the spearhead company of the formation. Then you can move any other companies in the formation up to double there move value but must ensure they end in base to base and in a valid formation (side by side, one behind the other etc). This means that WotR give the freedom to reform units in every move phase.

2: A formation. Each formation is made of the same type of company so casualties just come off the rearmost company (compaines that have already suffered casualties go at the back).

3: I think this is a mistake. Shooting is affected by casualties just like close combat is (IIRC).

4: Only companies in base to base get to make there full number of attacks and get a charge bonus. Companies behind can support the front companies and each gives a extra attack (2 if it has the horde rule).

5: If you have a higher fight value you get the difference in additional attacks. Also if the fight would occur simultainiously (infantry vs infantry for example) the player with the higher fight strikes first.

6: If you roll a 6 when charging you gain D3 extra attacks for each company that is in bas to base contact (roll 1 D3 and apply to all companies in that formation).

And yes the shoot value is the second stat under F.

Venerable_Bede
02-03-2009, 18:24
Thank you.

Mouldsta
02-03-2009, 18:55
1: You first move the spearhead company of the formation. Then you can move any other companies in the formation up to double there move value but must ensure they end in base to base and in a valid formation (side by side, one behind the other etc). This means that WotR give the freedom to reform units in every move phase.

This is only in the charging phase, in the movement phase a company can't move further than it's movement value (unless making a special manouever such as heroic move), so you'd move the company that has to go the furthest first


5: If you have a higher fight value you get the difference in additional attacks. Also if the fight would occur simultainiously (infantry vs infantry for example) the player with the higher fight strikes first.

The first part is true, don't think there's anything about striking first - that was a rumour going around for ages, but I didn't see it in the actual book


6: If you roll a 6 when charging you gain D3 extra attacks for each company that is in bas to base contact (roll 1 D3 and apply to all companies in that formation).


It's D3 per company, but I didn't think you rolled one D3 and applied it to all, I thought it was a D3 per company. I might be wrong though, don't have the book on me, but I have read it through cover to cover twice and played a few games.

blkdymnd
03-03-2009, 01:33
Here is a quick question... When forming a company of archers. Who exactly can shoot? only the front the company? All the companies in the formation? Only if the companies are arranged in a line? Here are some examples, and let me know who can shoot in these situations:

Example A (2 companies stacked vertically):
XXXX
XXXX
-----
XXXX
XXXX

Example B (2 companies horizontally):
XXXX | XXXX
XXXX | XXXX

Joewrightgm
03-03-2009, 02:30
the company facing the enemy gets its full number of attacks (8) and for each company behind they gain +1.

So in example 1, you would get 9 (8 for the company +1 for support)attacks

in example 2 to you would get 16 (8 x 2 for two companies facing the enemy)

blkdymnd
03-03-2009, 02:38
Ok cool. thanks.

So the advantage of spreading your companies of archers is you get a ton more shots, but the disadvantage is your frontage is very big for charges.

Znail
03-03-2009, 04:25
Hmm, is there any real advantage in having large archer units over just several smaller separate ones? I think they would still lose in assault most of the time even if in larger units.

blkdymnd
03-03-2009, 04:41
but against monsters, you could get more rolls on the tables in a concentrated volley over two seperate ones.

Lardidar
03-03-2009, 13:59
Aye its all to do with resilance.

8 Archers shooting cavalry, lets assume 1 wound ... well that causes no casualties as cavalry are resiliance 2 and any spare hits are removed (unlike wounds in fantasy)

16 archers, lets say 1 hit per stand, so 2 hits ... thats 1 dead horseman.

Mouldsta
03-03-2009, 22:39
Also if you have 2 units of 8 archers, when they drop to 4 models, that formation is removed (thus needing to kill 8 models to remove 16 models from the board). With a bigger formation of 16 archers, you'd need to kill 12 models before removing the whole unit.

Also archers aren't that bad in combat - they're basically the same as a standard foot troop. Harad archers for example are exactly the same as harad spearmen (and can even have the same command options)

Nightsword
04-03-2009, 11:37
Also if you have 2 units of 8 archers, when they drop to 4 models, that formation is removed

That's two separate units yeah?

Is the 50% rule for combat, shooting or both? For example, if some warg riders shoot the unit and 4 die, the company of 8 is removed right? Well, if the cavalry had charged instead and killed 4 of the 8 elves, is the company removed then, or can the remaining 4 strike back, and the company removed after?

Godswildcard
04-03-2009, 13:20
Here's a good question:

We know that archers are ok/pretty good in combat (particularly my high elves!!). If I wanted to make them really good, could I pick up a command group and still get the same # of shots since it is based on the # of attacks in the unit?

In fantasy, if you were to, say, take a unit of handgunners and upgrade the unit champion with two repeater pistols, he couldn't fire like the rest of the unit. Since the command group technically doesn't have a bow, can the unit still get the same # of shots?

Steam_Giant
04-03-2009, 13:56
That's two separate units yeah?

Is the 50% rule for combat, shooting or both? For example, if some warg riders shoot the unit and 4 die, the company of 8 is removed right? Well, if the cavalry had charged instead and killed 4 of the 8 elves, is the company removed then, or can the remaining 4 strike back, and the company removed after?

For both i believe.

Mouldsta
05-03-2009, 02:50
The command squad wouldn't affect the number of shots, as the command group doesn't affect attacks, and is assumed to be armed with the same weapons (in this case bows).

If the last company in a formation reaches half strength (4 models for infantry), it is removed as soon as this happens - this could therefore be in the enemy shooting phase, or in the middle of combat just after cav have attacked. If they died in combat to other infantry then they would get to attack, since infantry vs infantry is done similtaniously. Therefore monsters are good options to pick on small squads :)

Znail
05-03-2009, 04:19
Therefore monsters are good options to pick on small squads :)

So, to reverse that. Is large squads a good counter to Monsters and Cavalry?

Nightsword
05-03-2009, 10:51
@ Steam giant and Mouldsta: That clears it up nicely thank you :)

Spiney Norman
05-03-2009, 11:53
So, to reverse that. Is large squads a good counter to Monsters and Cavalry?

Actually I'd go so far as to say that its the only way to counter them in combat. Anything smaller than 3 companies of infantry will just get swept away by a cavalry charge unless you have a really mean hero in the unit which can tip things in your favour, and even 3 companies will struggle unless you're elves or have pikes.

My favourite counter for cavalry is formations of 2-3 archer companies. 2 companies has a fairly solid chance of knocking off one cavalry model a turn, whereas 3 companies should statistically remove 2 per turn on average.

Depending on the monster you might be able to take it down by archery, trolls, and ents etc shouldn't be a problem for a formation of 3 archer companies to remove in a few rounds (esp if they're elves), but the larger the monster gets the harder it is to take down so when you start talking about Mumakil, balrogs or dragons you've suddenly got real problems.

Godswildcard
05-03-2009, 14:12
My Current War of the Ring Army:
Elrond
Gil-Galad
High Elf Captain
High Elf Banner Bearer
2 companies of 8 High Elves w/ swords (or glaives, or elven blades...)
2 companies of 8 High Elves w/ longbows
2 Companies of 8 High Elves w/ Spear and Shield
2 Companies of 8 Men of Gondor w/ sword and shield
** question: will I have to have a captain or Isildur to lead these dudes?
68 Models
XXX Points
8 Might
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

using and early estimation, I should have around 900 points or so. I plan to get the following to finish this army:
-Another box of warriors of the last alliance so that I can round each formation out to 3 companies
-Isildur so that I can throw a hero in with the men of Gondor (I'm going to convert a banner bearer for them...)
-Glorfindel so that I can deal with monsters such as trolls and balrogs (he his a bad, bad dude...)

I will probably throw the captain in with the archers to give them some punch in combat, which I'm sure they will see eventually and then to possibly use his might to get them to fire twice in one turn (have to check the rules on this). The banner bearer goes with Elrond.

What are the benefits to having formations with three companies? As you see, all of my formations only have two, but every formation has a hero (excluding the men of gondor, who will eventually have Isildur).

Are the Men of Gondor basically warriors of Minas Tirith in WotR? I know that the models are different, but I'm curious as to if I can use the warriors of Minas Tirith models as the men of Gondor in the last alliance. This would allow me more tactical flexibility, as it would give me access to knights of minas tirith. Does that sound reasonable?

W0lf
05-03-2009, 15:07
To give you an idea my 750 pts is;

Rivendell guard; Erestor + 3 cohorts (spear+shield) 260
3 bases of HE swordsmen 165
3 bases of HE swordsmen 165
2 Bases of HE archers 120

Thats 710.

Numenorians (men with the elves) are pretty much the same as minas tirith warriors in stats, they do however have sperate entries.

Elves are expensive as you like.

rcal13
06-03-2009, 09:00
are you alowed one named caracter or one of each named caracter?

Garoth
06-03-2009, 10:05
One of each.

ThrowN
06-03-2009, 17:13
Another quik question, how are the different units seperated by the lists?

I want to use the following:
Mordor-Orks/-Urukai/-trolls
Wargrider
Trollcaptain
Dragon

Are they all in one list, i.e. do I need to take allies or not? In case its one list, can please you tell me its name and my other options (without allies)?

Mouldsta
06-03-2009, 17:32
Mordor orks - Mordor
Uruk-hai - Isengard
Trolls - Mordor (if mordor troll, misty mountains if cave troll, Isengard if Isengard troll)
Troll captain - Mordor
Warg Rider - Mordor I believe (not sure on this one)
Dragon - Misty mountains

The dragon will sap virtually all your points for allies - you can take 25% as allies and the drgon weighs in at 400pts, so you'd need to be playing at least 1600pts to take a dragon as your (only) ally

ThrowN
06-03-2009, 17:53
Thx!
I meant Mordor Uruks, thought this was clear.
My backbone will be lots of orcs, 2 mordor trolls and a troll captain as a spearhead. Can anyone confirm warg riders for mordor? Would suck if they wouldn't have 'em!
I hoped to see the dragon for mordor too, cause I fear that in tourneys (where the common armysize still remains to be seen...) allies won't be allowed. and I see the wyrm as kind of a leader, not a monster...

The Adept
06-03-2009, 20:58
I should think that allies would be allowed in tournies, as its an option in the rulebook.

Joewrightgm
06-03-2009, 21:22
Warg riders are in for mordor, and they're actually really good.

Hand weapons, throwing weapons and the Prowlers rule (+1 to hit when in the flank and rear) and can either be given shields or bows. Also, they're S 4, which when hitting in the side can be a deciding factor.

erion
08-03-2009, 10:11
Here's a question. How do command groups work for cavalry companies? The rules say that any command upgrades need to be added to the first company bought, but I can buy three command upgrades (four if I include a Named Hero) and a cavalry company is only two models. Do the additional upgrades spill over into a second company (paid for as normal, of course)? And if so, can I put the Captain in one of those companies and the hero in a second, potentially increasing the fight values of two companies in the formation?

Joewrightgm
08-03-2009, 15:01
Yes they do. The only restriction is that you have only one designated 'command' company, for example:

You buy a captain, standard bearer and musician; to models in the company get completely replaced, and a second company has one model replaced. You then have to designate which one is your command company, because it moves first during charges/ normal movement.

blkdymnd
08-03-2009, 15:29
Having the hero in the second company wouldn't do anything would it? Doesn't a hero give his value to the whole formation? So, the hero in the command company would make the hero in the second company redundant? Or is it only the company a hero gives it's bonuses to?

Joewrightgm
08-03-2009, 16:05
no, he gives his courage to the whole formation, but only his battle skill to his company.

If the hero in the second company would be useful if his fight is higher.

Keep in mind, battle skill is worked out when the company makes strikes; IE Orcs with a captain attacking men. The men (F 3) wouldn't get any battle skill dice, but the orc captain's company (F 4) would get +1 to the attack dice.

blkdymnd
08-03-2009, 16:17
no, he gives his courage to the whole formation, but only his battle skill to his company.

If the hero in the second company would be useful if his fight is higher.

Keep in mind, battle skill is worked out when the company makes strikes; IE Orcs with a captain attacking men. The men (F 3) wouldn't get any battle skill dice, but the orc captain's company (F 4) would get +1 to the attack dice.

Ok, thanks. I thought a hero gave his courage and fight to the whole formation.

Lotoc_Sabbath
08-03-2009, 16:47
Just a few questions...
1)can archer units fire with a friendly company between or they need to have clear view of the enemy?
2)Minas Tirith warriors have this war gear: hand weapons, heavy armour and shields, plus it has a defense value of 5(7)-------Morannon orcs have the same war gear and a defense value of 5. why don't they have the +2 bonus, so what should I count? (also normal orcs have 3 and not 3(5)....

Lotoc_Sabbath
08-03-2009, 16:51
Ah yes and another question where did you get the point value for the armies?

blkdymnd
08-03-2009, 16:58
Ah yes and another question where did you get the point value for the armies?

What do you mean exactly?

Spiney Norman
08-03-2009, 17:09
Just a few questions...
1)can archer units fire with a friendly company between or they need to have clear view of the enemy?
2)Minas Tirith warriors have this war gear: hand weapons, heavy armour and shields, plus it has a defense value of 5(7)-------Morannon orcs have the same war gear and a defense value of 5. why don't they have the +2 bonus, so what should I count? (also normal orcs have 3 and not 3(5)....

1) I don't think so, I do know WotR uses true LoS like SBG, but I'm not sure what the rules are for friendly models in the way.

2) Probably because Minas Tirith warriors are bought with shields as standard, but orcs and morannon orcs have shields as a purchasable upgrade, so the defence increase would not be on the basic profile for their company. It states in the rule book that shields confer +2 Defence to the front, so if you purchase the upgrade I guess you would modify it appropriately.

As for points values, they are in the WotR book, which most GW stores should have by now.

ThrowN
08-03-2009, 17:54
And yet another bunch of questions, mainly reagarding orc weaponry
- Spears are the same as Handweapons rulewise, does this count for 2-handed weapons, too?
- Is there something like WYSIWYG (What you see is what you get) in the book? I.e. can I put models with different equipement (shields!) in the front and models with spears in the back and still the whole company counts as having shields?

blkdymnd
08-03-2009, 17:58
And yet another bunch of questions, mainly reagarding orc weaponry
- Spears are the same as Handweapons rulewise, does this count for 2-handed weapons, too?
- Is there something like WYSIWYG (What you see is what you get) in the book? I.e. can I put models with different equipement (shields!) in the front and models with spears in the back and still the whole company counts as having shields?

I think WSYWIG can be a bit loose in this game. Just make sure you're opponent knows what they have. Maybe put the majority in the front.

For example, I had a mix of Mahud Warriors and Mahud Blowgunners. But there is only one entry for Mahud, either just warriors or the blowgun upgrade. So I mix both to create a larger company and if I'm not using my blowgunners, I'll put them to the back.

On the spear question, again just make sure your opponent knows what you're fielding. Spears seem pretty flexible between both option since there are no spear rules (though they call them hand weapons in the book, you definitely use two hands with them).

We'll know more I guess officially if the system makes it to the GT circuit.

Joewrightgm
08-03-2009, 20:58
The two-handed weapons actually have rules, but again if you fill out the back ranks with two-handers and make clear to your opponent what is what and you're consistent, most reasonable people will be fine with it.

Crovax20
09-03-2009, 00:01
uruk-hai shaman, worth it?

I mean you pay like 100 points for it, and a ringwraith is 125? Ringwraith can do a lot more I reckon! You get the special rule, more spells, more lists (?) for only 25 points more

Joewrightgm
09-03-2009, 02:05
See here's the thing:

I had the Mouth of Sauron, who is mastery level 2, was devastating in a 750 point game.

I think the shamans are worth it. If you keep casting spells, the enemy has the unpleasant choice of trying to resist it with might, or biting down and taking the (sometimes) over the top effects of the spells.

Also depends on the context that you take him in; if you stick him in a unit of Isengard Uruk-hai he can do things like have his unit cause terror and such.

Godswildcard
09-03-2009, 14:32
Whats the point of legendary formations? I looked at the WotR book the other day and there is a Rivendell Guard Legendary formation led by Erestor. Whats the point, as the elves themselves are the exact same as the others in the book. Is it just to get erestor in the unit?

Joewrightgm
09-03-2009, 14:34
Usually a legendary unit allows you do something over and above what a formation could do; for example, Gorbag's Morgul Rats formation allows you to attempt two "At the Double" moves.

ThrowN
09-03-2009, 21:48
No problem to come up with another bunch:
- Named characters like Gothmog, are they fixed to certain formations or can I place him where I want? If so, where is the difference to legendary units, they seem to be character+certain formation, too?
- Modor troll costs rougly how much in Mordor Ork companies?
- Whats the use of a troll drummer, since he can't join a formation
- Whats the difference between Mordor Orks, Morannon Orks and Mordor Uruks? Do they simply become harder and cost more points in this order, or have the latter two additional special rules?
- In how many fraction is the Evil side seperated? Isengart, Misty Mountains, Fallen Kingdoms, Mordor - thats it?

Damn, no GW nearby and the book still outta reach :(

Tae
09-03-2009, 23:01
- Whats the use of a troll drummer, since he can't join a formation

iirc, he provides a bonus to all formations within a certain distance (12" I think). Not sure what the bonus is, the usual bonus for drummers is that the formation can move an extra inch.

However it may act similar to goblin drums, which act not only as drums but also taskmasters (and something else as well, but can't remember what).

Marauder
09-03-2009, 23:48
No problem to come up with another bunch:
- Named characters like Gothmog, are they fixed to certain formations or can I place him where I want? If so, where is the difference to legendary units, they seem to be character+certain formation, too?
- Modor troll costs rougly how much in Mordor Ork companies?
- Whats the use of a troll drummer, since he can't join a formation
- Whats the difference between Mordor Orks, Morannon Orks and Mordor Uruks? Do they simply become harder and cost more points in this order, or have the latter two additional special rules?
- In how many fraction is the Evil side seperated? Isengart, Misty Mountains, Fallen Kingdoms, Mordor - thats it?

Damn, no GW nearby and the book still outta reach :(

Okay, gotta covered here:

1) Gothmog is an epic hero and all epic heroes can go in whatever infantry or cav formation they like (they can even switch between them in the movement phase). Some other heroes (like Shagrat, Gorbag and Grishnak) are part of Legendary formations, and can not leave it. BTW these are kind of elite versions of Uruk, Orc and Tracker formations. Some heroes like the wraiths appear as either a legendary formation (you can take all 9 together in one unit), an epic hero (you can add a wraith to any unit) or as a legendary formation on their own (on a fellbeast). There are also heroes that are just unit upgrades like orc captains or shamans and they can only be bought for their specific unit. Don't worry, Sauron can't join any unit, he's a legendary formation on his own.

2) A mordor troll is equal to 5 mordor orc companies that have purchased a shield upgrade. The troll chieftain is worth two regular trolls.

3) A troll drummer grants the musician ability to all formations within 12" of him.

4) There are differences other than just toughness. Regular orcs can be fielded in formations of up to 9 companies, while the other two max out at 6 companies. Regular orcs also lend +2 dice when they support instead of +1. Regular orcs also have more weapon options - shields, bows and two handed. Morannon orcs can only upgrade to shields - but also start with better armour so are much much tougher than regular orcs. Mordor uruk hai can't get shields but can get two handed weapons. They also have a special ability called Stalwart (I don't know what it does but it sounds like a good thing). The uruk-hai can't get taskmasters (the others can). All of them can get captains, banners, musicians and shaman though. They all count as common formations, which is good because you need one common formation for each rare formation (trolls, siege weapons, etc).

5) Mordor, Isenguard, Angmar, Misty Mountains, Fallen Kingdoms

Crovax20
10-03-2009, 00:00
See here's the thing:

I had the Mouth of Sauron, who is mastery level 2, was devastating in a 750 point game.

I think the shamans are worth it. If you keep casting spells, the enemy has the unpleasant choice of trying to resist it with might, or biting down and taking the (sometimes) over the top effects of the spells.

Also depends on the context that you take him in; if you stick him in a unit of Isengard Uruk-hai he can do things like have his unit cause terror and such.


Yes, but I could just take a ringwraith as ally instead, for 25 more points I get higher mastery level, more casting lists (?) and get one of the special ringwraith rules. Seems to me the cost vs effect is a bit off. I don't know the exact stats but the GW staff basically told me this.

Joewrightgm
10-03-2009, 00:09
The wraiths are better by far for only 25 more points, but the other side of that is that if you want more allies, a multiple wraiths are going to eat up a lot of points.

With shamans, you can have a relatively large number and force the enemy to expend might to keep their units safe, leaving them open for something like a wraith, Saruman, etc.

ThrowN
10-03-2009, 00:36
Thank you for the info! Last two questions for today (european time...):
- What does the Angmar list include? Ghostly Legions and Werewolves and what else? The GW-Page doesn't give any hints
- I'm not sure about the cost of shields for orks...:(

vodrake
10-03-2009, 00:55
shields are 5pts per company, so a bargain. For example morannon orcs with shields (defence 7) are 25pts a company.

angmar have the dead legions and other spirit units, black numenorians, gulavar, more that i cant think of at the moment

Lotoc_Sabbath
10-03-2009, 15:40
ok another bunch of quick questions.......I still haven't had the opportiunity to read the book so...
1) How is the frtress fighting( difficult or easy)?
2) does any hero give any defence bonus, especially heroes of mordor..?
3)can formation stay in this position

XXXX / XXXX
XXXX / XXXX
------------
XXXX
XXXX

OR ONLY LIKE THIS...:

XXXX/XXXX/XXXX
XXXX/XXXX/XXXX

AND

XXXX
XXXX
-----
XXXX
XXXX
-----
XXXX
XXXX

Tae
10-03-2009, 15:53
3)can formation stay in this position

XXXX / XXXX
XXXX / XXXX
------------
XXXX
XXXX

OR ONLY LIKE THIS...:

XXXX/XXXX/XXXX
XXXX/XXXX/XXXX

AND

XXXX
XXXX
-----
XXXX
XXXX
-----
XXXX
XXXX

All 3 formations above are valid afaik.

Osbad
10-03-2009, 17:23
The quickstart rules doesn't tell what "Fight" does. Some weapons are listed as "+1 to hit", others add to Fight. What's the difference?

There's so much that's not covered in those 2 pages, that you really can't test out the rules.

QFT. The quickstart rules don't really do the job. There's enough in them to convince me that the game looks worth a second look, but actually playing a test game with them isn't too appetising.

I've painted up and flocked 24 movement trays so far, so I really hope the game doesn't stink!

Firstcast
13-03-2009, 02:43
The quickstart rules doesn't tell what "Fight" does. Some weapons are listed as "+1 to hit", others add to Fight. What's the difference?

There's so much that's not covered in those 2 pages, that you really can't test out the rules.

Okay the difference between fight and +hit is actually quite simple, Fight determines how many extra dice you get to roll in either close combat or shooting. In close combat, you get to roll more dice depending on the fight difference, so for example boromir and a formation of gondor vs. a formation of mordor orcs

the formation of gondor would get 8 attacks + 3 more because boromir is fight 6 where as the orcs are fight 3. When determining the number of extra attacks you would get, you take the basic fight of the enemy, so the orcs would get 1 extra attack with their stand from the orc captain who is fight 4 where as a man of minas tirith is fight 3.

Which shooting, you take your shoot value away from 5 and thats how many extra dice you get per company in a formation.

For example, a formation of elf archers consisting of 2 companies would get 16 shots from the 2 stands, +2 dice per company for having a shoot value of 3, as 5-3=2

A company of orc archers have a shoot value of 5, so a formation of 2 companies would only get 16 shots.

If you have a shoot value higher than 5, you will lose shots, again take your shoot value away from 5, so if your formation gets affected by a spell like pall of night, where their shoot value gets reduced to 6, they would lose 1 dice from each stand as their shoot value is 6; 5-6= -1

+ hit values means that the formation get + to their dice rolls when determining how many casulties they cause. So for example a formation with aragorn in it will get +2 to hit from anduril. So the formation needed a 6 to cause a hit on an enemy, the +2 to hit would only require them to roll a 4 to hit.


QFT. The quickstart rules don't really do the job. There's enough in them to convince me that the game looks worth a second look, but actually playing a test game with them isn't too appetising.

I've painted up and flocked 24 movement trays so far, so I really hope the game doesn't stink!

Ive played around 6 games of it so far at about 2k points, and i love it, you wont be dissapointed.

Rirekon
13-03-2009, 10:20
It seems daft to have this "take your shoot away from 5" rule, why not just start with that value in the first place?
i.e. shoot 3 becomes shoot 2, you get 2 extra shots either way and "negative modifiers" would actually make sense rather than being additive.

Wiseman
13-03-2009, 12:49
Ive played around 6 games of it so far at about 2k points, and i love it, you wont be dissapointed.

I've played a few as well, seems like a very well constructed game, enjoying it more then the other systems at the minute, some very, very nasty combinations available as well.

Joewrightgm
13-03-2009, 13:53
Thank you for the info! Last two questions for today (european time...):
- What does the Angmar list include? Ghostly Legions and Werewolves and what else? The GW-Page doesn't give any hints
- I'm not sure about the cost of shields for orks...:(

Angmar's armies include:

Ghost Legion (Army of the Dead)

Ghost Riders (Riders of the Dead)

Barbarians of Carn Dum (Dunland Huscarls with the Bersek rule)

Orc (shields/two-handed weapons/bows are all 5 pt upgrades)

Werewolves

You can take the Tainted, The Witch-King and The Undying in the list and don't count towards your ally limit.

Cave Trolls

Gulhavar, Terror of Arnor and Burdur.

Marauder
13-03-2009, 16:31
It seems daft to have this "take your shoot away from 5" rule, why not just start with that value in the first place?
i.e. shoot 3 becomes shoot 2, you get 2 extra shots either way and "negative modifiers" would actually make sense rather than being additive.

It seems to be a thing they brought over from SBG. I'm not sure why since many of the stats are inconsistent anyways.

Rirekon
13-03-2009, 16:49
Ah well, if that's the weirdest their design decisions get I can live with it. For some reason, which I really can't put my finger on, I'm totally psyched about WotR.

boomgoose
15-03-2009, 03:41
Thanks for that explanation, Firstcast. I'd been wondering about fight value myself. Finished up 24 Warriors of Minas Tirith today and just primed 6 more knights. That will bring my totals up to 72 warriors plus captain and standard, 12 knights plus standard, mounted Faramir and Aragorn the King. I'm thinking about picking up a box of Gondor Rangers next. Gotta love 24 bows in one box.

Reinholt
15-03-2009, 05:10
Angmar's armies include:

Ghost Legion (Army of the Dead)

Ghost Riders (Riders of the Dead)

Barbarians of Carn Dum (Dunland Huscarls with the Bersek rule)

Orc (shields/two-handed weapons/bows are all 5 pt upgrades)

Werewolves

You can take the Tainted, The Witch-King and The Undying in the list and don't count towards your ally limit.

Cave Trolls

Gulhavar, Terror of Arnor and Burdur.

If I recall correctly:

Common Units
- Ghostly Legion
- Ghostly Riders
- Spectres
- Angmar Orcs
- Carn Dum Barbarians

Rare Units:
- Barrow Wights
- Shades
- Werewolves

Epic Heroes:
- Buhrdur
- Gulavhar
- The Tainted
- The Witch King
- The Dwimmerlaik

The implication seems to be you can take the wraiths either solo or on the felbeasts - it doesn't specify other than to make it clear you can't take the nine abroad as a list native unit.

I don't recall seeing cave trolls in the list, but I might have just missed it.

Lotoc_Sabbath
15-03-2009, 09:00
I need to ask a quick modeling wotr question...( I don't have images with me)

if u noticed it in the book there are special bases for the nazguls the fellowship of the ring and for the three hunters and for many other things....does anyone have some tips of how to do them or if they will become available?

Joewrightgm
15-03-2009, 14:24
Those are scratch built trays. My reckoning, easiest way to make them would be to get a modular movement tray for fantasy, put foam core over top to fill in between the base ridges and then cut holes for the wraiths.

Flock as appropriate to your army.

Rirekon
15-03-2009, 23:38
Question on to-hit rolls and + to-hit;
Unit-A normally needs 6's followed by 6's to hit Unit-B, however Unit-A gets +1 on it's to-hit rolls (2-handed weapons I think?)

Does Unit-A need 6's followed by 5's (left shift on the to-hit table) or 5's followed by 5's (adding +1 to the rolls to get 6's followed by 6's)?

blkdymnd
16-03-2009, 00:10
6's followed by 5's. It's one better than you need basically.

lotrchampion
16-03-2009, 00:22
Yes. Modifiers apply to both dice, as they do and always have in the SBG. Same with expenditure of Might points on a company's roll to wound if they contain a hero.

Rirekon
16-03-2009, 10:30
Got ya, thanks :)

Had a scan through our store's copy and that was the only bit that I wondered about. The rest of it seems particularly solid, loving the Wraith rules in particular

edit:
Quick question for anyone who's seen the book (I can't remember the answer after my scan of it);
Are the Morgul Knights part of the Mordor list? They're listed as part of The Fallen Realms on the GW site...

ThrowN
18-03-2009, 08:05
I've another question for those who already played some games:
Regarding elite units, especially infantry, how many companies are normally needed for such a formation to be effectiv? Something like Mordor Uruks, Morgul Knights and Knights of Dol Amroth. They are all metall figures, for 2 companies of metall infantry you need to buy 6 blisters, for 3 companies of knights you need one box and one blister. Are such small units already big enough for elites?

Kordos
18-03-2009, 09:06
I've another question for those who already played some games:
Regarding elite units, especially infantry, how many companies are normally needed for such a formation to be effectiv? Something like Mordor Uruks, Morgul Knights and Knights of Dol Amroth. They are all metall figures, for 2 companies of metall infantry you need to buy 6 blisters, for 3 companies of knights you need one box and one blister. Are such small units already big enough for elites?

it depends on their resilience and special rules - if they have a higher than average R and/or special rules that make them tougher in combat or the special rule where the company wont run away/needs to be hacked down to one model then you can get away with one or two companies in a formation

An example that fits the high R and special rules above are Half Trolls - I will only be using one company of half trolls

lorelorn
18-03-2009, 09:21
Are the Morgul Knights part of the Mordor list? They're listed as part of The Fallen Realms on the GW site...

They are part of the Fallen Realms list, as are Black Numenoreans.

Rirekon
18-03-2009, 10:22
They are part of the Fallen Realms list, as are Black Numenoreans.

That's pretty odd, they're description references Mordor... Ah well, allies it is then :)
Cheers!

darkstar
18-03-2009, 21:55
I believe if you take the Dark Marshal, they can be taken as common choices. I'm not sure if that applies if you're taking a mordor force, though.

blkdymnd
19-03-2009, 01:45
I believe if you take the Dark Marshal, they can be taken as common choices. I'm not sure if that applies if you're taking a mordor force, though.

Me and a friend were having a friendly disagreement about this as I play Mordor, I told him I could not field Morgoul Knights as commons with the Dark Marshall because the footnote is not on his profile in the Mordor list. The Fallen Kingdoms can do that because the footnote is in that list only. He disagreed and said I should be able to take them as commons. I guess we'll find out soon.

pj19
19-03-2009, 16:06
Quick question: Ok so GW is releasing movement trays for LOTR Infantry/Calvary. How big are the base sizes in LOTR? I want to use them for my 40k orks if they are the same size!

boomgoose
19-03-2009, 16:13
The infantry bases are the same size as your orcs. The cavalry bases are bigger.

pj19
19-03-2009, 16:20
Sweet! No more moving 60+ models/turn by hand

GrimDog
19-03-2009, 16:32
but they only fit 8 on a stand and arent spaced out to great

darkstar
19-03-2009, 17:46
Re the Dark Marshall, checked today, it specifies Fallen Kingdoms, so no core numenorians for mordor. Fair enough.

Re the movement trays, the bases are 25 mm round and 40mm round respectively. So essentially, boys and meganobz. I know people who, for the Guard release, will be using one stand and a HW team beside it per squad. Good idea on using them for Orks, I might have to half-inch it.

GrimDog
19-03-2009, 19:37
you can just use these for orks:

http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/PROD/Skirm/GMT_25mm_Rd_Skirm

Faeslayer
25-03-2009, 15:15
Quick question- how big should formations be, generally?

Is a formation of 2 companies of high elf archers or warriors (the ones in the Last Alliance box) ridiculously small?

Mouldsta
25-03-2009, 16:08
Depends on who/what they are;

A unit with indomniable and decent defence (like half trolls) can be alright with just one company - they won't die too fast, and they'll go till the last model.

Archers seem fine in formations of 2 or 3 companies - with just one company they don't do much damage and get wiped out too fast (having to remove the whole company when you lose 4 models..), and 4+ companies of archers just get in each other's way or are never in range of the same target.

With combat units I'd have to go with 3 company's being the minimum. Something cheap that relies on support like orcs/goblins probably want 4 minimum, and very elite formations that have a good way of not dying (via defense, epic ability or magic) might be able to scrape by with 2 companies minimum.

Faeslayer
25-03-2009, 16:31
Thanks! Think I'll go with 2 company formations for archers and 4 for HtH, to start.

ThrowN
25-03-2009, 16:31
I think the "the size of formation"question deserves a topic on its own. There are so many different formations that you need to handle. I second the question, but for regular orcs, wargriders and mordor uruks...

Marauder
25-03-2009, 16:58
I think the "the size of formation"question deserves a topic on its own. There are so many different formations that you need to handle. I second the question, but for regular orcs, wargriders and mordor uruks...

It sure does. Given how cheap troops are and how expensive epic heroes/command models are it almost begs you to take max formations for orcs which have the higher support values.

ThrowN
26-03-2009, 11:35
can someone lease describe the following 2 formations to me:
- Shagrats Tower Guard
- Black Guard of Barad-Dur

I'm still undecided on how I will use my Uruk models

Btw the AB file doesn't allow standards for mordor orcs, I assume this is wrong???

Joewrightgm
26-03-2009, 13:09
Shagrat's Tower Guard are mordor uruks with a drummer and banner and shagrat. Shagrat can call an epic action that makes the formation berserk and stalwart.

Black Guard are uruk-hai in heavy armor and shields, who are berserk.

And yes, mordor orcs can have a standard.

mmacgregor
11-04-2009, 21:17
Hi,

Can an Epic Hero join a Legendary Formation?

thanks,

Matt

Nu Fenix
11-04-2009, 21:20
Yes, although often the Epic Hero would be better supporting a more 'normal' Formation instead.