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View Full Version : Blade of Revered Tzunki vs. Malekith



dunagrad
28-02-2009, 16:15
Okay, as some of you know, I am preparing a Lizardman army to go against a dark elf army that I am sure I will be facing around spring break time. I have a more detailed post I intend on updating or recreating in the fantasy army section on that here (if you care to read it later):

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181748

However, I purchased the Dark Elf book and am in the middle of researching the army before I make any more magical decisions. In fact, I'm not even sure I will be continuing with my original army build, but that is later.

Anyway, I was reading up on Malekith and of course discovered that the Armor of Midnight, if I'm reading it correctly, renders the Blade of Realities completely useless. Granted, an unmodified Leadership of 10 almost makes it useless anyway, but if the leadership test is failed, Realities kills outright, so can only produce one wound against Malekith. So now I have turned my attention to the Blade of Revered Tzunki, and I need to know if I am reading this correctly.

I thought I remembered reading somewhere in the Basic Rules Book (though I cannot find it now) that attacks from magiacal weapons or items are considered magical attacks. Is this true? Because, if so, it would negate the 2+ ward save against non-magical attacks also provided by the armor fo midnight, and since Tzunki does not allow armor saves, then it would leave Malekith without any saves. Of course this is all contingent on whether an attack by a magic weapon is considered a magical or non-magical attack.

Otherwise, it looks like the only effective way to defeat Malekith is through spells in which case the Circlet of Iron poses new issues.

Help? Comments?

Genrazn
28-02-2009, 16:20
One could argue that Blade of Realities does no wounds. They just die :P

dunagrad
28-02-2009, 16:27
One could argue that Blade of Realities does no wounds. They just die :P


I would love to make that interpretation, but I can't justify it for two reasons. One, AoM says "Malekith can never suffer more than one wound from a single attack, so attacks that do multiple wounds or kill outright only ever inflict a single wound." Second, the Blade of Realities does in fact cause wounds as normal if the Leadership Test is passed.

Maetco
28-02-2009, 16:27
Magical weapon = magical attack unless otherwise stated.

I have to agree with dunagrad on this one. This could be faqued differently but because they used the word "slain" instead of eg "removed from the game" I think that the effect on BoR would be concidered to like killingblow with the exeption that even if you're immune to killingblow you're not immune to this.

dunagrad
28-02-2009, 16:38
Of course, all of this is bascially a moot point for anything less than a 3000 point army. In order to take the Tzunki blade I would need a Lord that can take at least 65 points in magical items (i.e. Saurus Oldblood). For a 2000 pt. army I would have to trade him for my Slann which I think I might need more against DE. I could give the Blade to the Slann, but WS2? If he ever got to Malektih, I don't think he'd last very long.

Genrazn
28-02-2009, 16:39
Well BoR Does indeed caused wounds after the leaderships are passed. But it doesnt do wounds when the test is failed no? Either or its a means of beind a dick.

dunagrad
28-02-2009, 17:06
The armor of midnight would make a failed leadership test inflict a wound instead of slaying him, I guess. Or would the attacker then still have to roll to wound after the failed leadership test? Either way, I am not trying to justify taking the BoR. I'm trying to make sure the BoRT does in fact prohibit armor saves against Malekith. The guy already has a 2+ ward save against anything non-magical not counting his heavy armor, a sword with a 4+ chance of destroying said magical weapon or worse, Magic Resistance of 2 and the ability to possibly cause S6 hits per dice rolled to cast a spell (due to Spellshield, not Circlet of Iron, my bad). I don't see how taking the BoRT isn't justifyable.

Von Wibble
28-02-2009, 20:29
Your best chance against malekith is

1) Multiple attacks that ignore armour. He only has T4 and 3 wounds after all.

2) Hit the chariot/unit/dragon and watch him fail his break check.

3) Miscasts.

4) Kill everything else. Melekith is about 200pts overcosted so consider yourself to have this much advantage elsewhere on the battlefield.

Leth Shyish'phak
28-02-2009, 21:53
3) Miscasts.



Malekith charges Anvil of Doom alone from his corsair unit (despite being reduced to half movement by the anvil ). Anvil holds. Runelord's emotions/thoughts at this point :wtf: :( . Malekith attempts to cast Power of Darkness. Miscasts. Runelord's emotions/thoughts at this point: :p . Malekith's head explodes. Runelord's emotions/thoughts at this point: :wtf: :eek: :D . Much hilarity ensues throughout the shop.


Limited to 6 smilies? So unfair. I wanted to use 8...

Necromancy Black
28-02-2009, 22:08
The rules for Malekith are clear, he only takes one wound from anything that would either slay him outright or does multiple wounds.

BoR would ignore all his armour saves and such on a failed leadership test, doing 1 wound only.

Much better to use something else to kill Malekith, but as people have said, he's T4 with 3 wounds. A Slann should be able to start magic missiling him to death pretty quickly. Also throw Law of Gold at him a few times. That'll get rid of his crappy wargear :p

If he's on a dragon try putting Beast Cowers onto it. That will make your oppanant take notice and react.

EndlessBug
28-02-2009, 22:25
any spell that is dispelled against malekith causes a strength 6 hit per die used to cast the spell. So sure send those magic missiles against him and watch your mages wither and die.

kill him with any magical weapon, flaming sword, the lore of light magical attacks spell, bears anger...

Spirit
28-02-2009, 23:19
dont kill him, throw 2 stegadon into his unit and watch as it runs away.

us20 terror causer anyone? put 3 terradon behind his unit to seal the deal.

dunagrad
01-03-2009, 01:38
any spell that is dispelled against malekith causes a strength 6 hit per die used to cast the spell. So sure send those magic missiles against him and watch your mages wither and die.

kill him with any magical weapon, flaming sword, the lore of light magical attacks spell, bears anger...


actually, this only happens if the spell is dispelled by a dispell scroll, of course, who knows how many of those he will carry. Even one or two is gonna hurt pretty badly. Thanks to everyone for the tips. There are plenty of good suggestions here, and I appreciate how supportive Warseer members are as a whole. Thanks again!

MalusCalibur
01-03-2009, 17:24
actually, this only happens if the spell is dispelled by a dispell scroll, of course, who knows how many of those he will carry. Even one or two is gonna hurt pretty badly. Thanks to everyone for the tips. There are plenty of good suggestions here, and I appreciate how supportive Warseer members are as a whole. Thanks again!

Im afraid that EndlessBug is right: 'If a spell cast at Malekith spell is dispelled by a dispel roll, the caster suffers a Strength 6 hit for every dice used to cast the spell'' (Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves, p64). It wouldn't make much sense to only apply to scrolls-mainly since Malekith himself cannot carry any.


MalusCalibur

dunagrad
02-03-2009, 13:36
Man, I read that thing like 8 times! How did I miss that? Wishful thinking I guess. But you're right, the other way makes no sense at all. Thanks.

Dr.Mercury
02-03-2009, 14:42
dont kill him, throw 2 stegadon into his unit and watch as it runs away.

us20 terror causer anyone? put 3 terradon behind his unit to seal the deal.

Malekith is ItP

Leth Shyish'phak
02-03-2009, 15:27
Unless he's running around alone or on a Dragon, that won't help.

Dr.Mercury
02-03-2009, 15:46
Unless he's running around alone or on a Dragon, that won't help.

True, true

Spirit
02-03-2009, 17:12
Malekith is ItP

Doesnt matter when your 9 impact hits (and thats an average) and 6-8 attacks AND 10 skink crew win the combat by millions.

Dr.Mercury
02-03-2009, 20:28
Doesnt matter when your 9 impact hits (and thats an average) and 6-8 attacks AND 10 skink crew win the combat by millions.
Very true, but your original post mentioned nothing about killing him. Your premise was to beat him by terror causing, and a high US.
I was simply pointing out that he is ItP, so subsequently would not run away if beaten in combat simply because of terror.

But honestly if anyone is dumb enough to allow Malekith to get charged simultaneously by 2 stegadons, they they deserve to loose him.

Leth Shyish'phak
02-03-2009, 20:30
No, Dr. Mercury, you don't understand.

Stegadons solve EVERYTHING. :angel:

Dr.Mercury
02-03-2009, 21:44
No, Dr. Mercury, you don't understand.

Stegadons solve EVERYTHING. :angel:

Hmmm, I guess I missed that page in the new army book.;)

Spirit
03-03-2009, 10:29
Yea its right under the encyclopedia sized amount of special rules they have. Most people don't make it to the bottom of the age to find it.