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Sons of Alaitoc v.2
28-02-2009, 17:44
I am considering collecting a Daemonhunters army, but as I looked through the GW catalogue I realised there is much more variety in a Witch hunters army. I don't want to collect Witch hunters, as my friend collects them, and I would like to have the Inquisition (minus Alien Hunters) fighting together against Chaos scum. I know you can have some Space Marine (what about Imperial Guard?) vehicles as well, but almost the whole of the army would be made up of Grey Knights, and that only consists of normal Grey Knights or Grey Knight Terminators (can you convert any Space Marine squad to be Grey Knights?). So now I pose you this question: Daemonhunters, worth collecting? :confused:

Eryx_UK
28-02-2009, 17:55
Despite what some may think, I have found DH to still be viable. One player at my local club has won two leagues (1000 and 1500 pts) with his Grey Knight dominant DH army. They do need an update but as is they play very well. Just be prepared to buy a full metal army.

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
28-02-2009, 17:58
How powerful are Grey Knights? I know they are more powerful than the average Space Marine, but how powerful is that?

Necrotyr18
28-02-2009, 23:46
Strategy is a must for them, even though in 40k a lot of victory comes right down to what you take, you must also have good table presence. If you want a decent list I made this one right now and think it will perform well.

Grandmaster - Master Crafted Nemesis force weapon, Combi-flamer. Retinue: 3 Grey Knight Terminators

8 Grey Knights - Justicar

8 Grey Knights - Justicar

8 Grey Knights - Justicar

Land Raider Crusader

Land Raider Crusader

Land Raider Crusader
______________________________________
Put your three troops in the Crusader and Deep Strike your HQ and you should do fine. Comes to a total of 1748.

Tanner MIrabel
28-02-2009, 23:58
There's more to Daemonhunters than just Grey Knights: Storm Troopers, Inducted Imperial Guard, Inquisitors, Assassins. You can have a bit of variety there...

sneb
01-03-2009, 00:32
they're a really funlity set to play not to mention have one of the best models lines and possibilities

I haven't found them (both playing against and with) as terribly underpowered or broken as people make them seem

I'd say if you have the cash (about $50-100$ more than most other armies of comparable size) go for it

fluffstalker
01-03-2009, 00:37
If you enjoy the models, and the models and the feel of the army are IMO certainly nice, then go for it! There are plenty of DH players on the forum who will help you out with tactics and composition. Post a list and get cracking.

Khornies & milk
01-03-2009, 00:37
Strategy is a must for them, even though in 40k a lot of victory comes right down to what you take, you must also have good table presence. If you want a decent list I made this one right now and think it will perform well.

Grandmaster - Master Crafted Nemesis force weapon, Combi-flamer. Retinue: 3 Grey Knight Terminators

8 Grey Knights - Justicar

8 Grey Knights - Justicar

8 Grey Knights - Justicar

Land Raider Crusader

Land Raider Crusader

Land Raider Crusader
______________________________________
Put your three troops in the Crusader and Deep Strike your HQ and you should do fine. Comes to a total of 1748.

No sorry..at least 2 of those Raiders need to be 'Godhammer' pattern (std)
as pure GK lists need some long-range anti-tank to have a chance against most lists they'll face.

anyway, seen as the OP said DH specifically, but with mostly GK/GKT's I'd suggest
Inq with a shooty Retinue
assassin of choice (Callidus or Eversor imo)
GK Hero & Retinue
multiple GK squads
only add a second GKT squad in 2K and up

Worth collecting? hell yea, just for having a cool, characterful, and rare army.
It has a steep learning curve that requires a lot of actual playing to get used to what/how it's good at... in other words it's not just a point-and-shoot army.

I believe that when it finally gets an update GW will ensure it's more competitive than currently, because they will want it to sell better than it does now, especially if they decide to release them in plastic because then it WILL have to pay for itself.

my 2 cents anyway....

Necrotyr18
01-03-2009, 01:10
No sorry..at least 2 of those Raiders need to be 'Godhammer' pattern (std)
as pure GK lists need some long-range anti-tank to have a chance against most lists they'll face.

I agree, feel free to swich some Crusaders with their normal brothern, though the Grey Knight Crusader comes stock with a Mulit-Melta keep in mind.

PhantomRonin
01-03-2009, 01:25
If you're having trouble, you CAN grab a few units from the Witchhunters as backups and use them as allies in your Daemonhunter dominant army. A combination of both factions is a deadly one so I hear.

rodmillard
01-03-2009, 02:11
If you're having trouble, you CAN grab a few units from the Witchhunters as backups and use them as allies in your Daemonhunter dominant army. A combination of both factions is a deadly one so I hear.

Absolutely - combined arms =I= is very nasty to play against (personally I run Sisters with Grey Knights in support, although I am slowly expanding my GK units to be able to play it either way)

Miggidy Mack
01-03-2009, 04:58
You could also go totally wonkers and build a radical Inquisitor army. These are guys who still fight for the imperium but do it however they want. The imperium doesn't like that. They fight fire with fire!

From a "strength" standpoint the GK's can be very strong if you use terminators and GK's with plenty of land raiders.

Frankly I prefer taking 3 crusaders. They have all the anti-tank they need in the multi-melta and the assault cannon. Combine with the GK's STR 6 they can handle just about any vehicle just fine. Since the crusader can move 12" and fire 1 weapon AND it's hurricane bolters (at different targets) the land raider gets to transport models and be effective in the shooting phase!

1 Grand Master + 7 Terminators beats almost any unit!

In the end though it's all about what you want to play. Any army can build a list that's competitive enough.

massey
01-03-2009, 05:08
These are really two different questions. Are they worth collecting? Are the a competitive army?

The answer to the first is absolutely. They have a gorgeous model range with a lot of detail, and they look fantastic on the table when properly painted. However, that's "collecting".

Are they powerful? Not really. There are a few cheesy builds, like a 2000 point list with 7 Land Raiders, but overall, they're not as effective as other armies. Now, they have some powerful things they can do, that other armies can't, but ultimately it's the same story as Deathwing. You've got an army where each individual guy is very powerful, but as a whole, they're so expensive that you lose out on overall army power. Grey Knights are 2/3 again the cost of a standard Marine, but they still fail a save on a 1 or a 2, so the army ends up being fragile.

starlight
01-03-2009, 05:13
I have a full FOC each of both Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle because they are great fun and hugely characterful, but also because they are capable on the battefield. :)


That said, they aren't a beginner's army, unless you're prepared to learn from your losses (like any good general should:p).

Hi_ex_lover
01-03-2009, 07:45
there are a few cheesy builds, like a 2000 point list with 7 land raiders, .

what the crap?! 7?!

Grazzy
01-03-2009, 10:55
what the crap?! 7?!

I dont know how he managed 7, but here is a 2K list with 6 raiders from memory. It can even do objectives as the IST can sit in the crusaders and be a 60 point upgrade to make them scoring. The multimeltas and lascannons take out tanks and then you use the crusaders and 18 flamers to clear infantry off of the objectives.


GK brother captain with incinerator = 81

Inquisitor with incinerator + 3 warriors with flamers + Land raider = 335
Inquisitor with incinerator + 3 warriors with flamers + Land raider = 335
Inquisitor with incinerator + 3 warriors with flamers + Land raider = 335

5 IST 2 flamers = 60
5 IST 2 flamers = 60
5 IST 1 flamers = 55

GK Land Raider Crusader = 255
GK Land Raider Crusader = 255
GK Land Raider Crusader = 255

1789

Lord Damocles
01-03-2009, 11:03
what the crap?! 7?!
Inq Lord + Retinue + Raider
GK Hero

Inquisitor + Retinue + Raider
Inquisitor + Retinue + Raider
Inquisitor + Retinue + Raider

Minimal cheap Troops choices

GK Raider / LRC
GK Raider / LRC
GK Raider / LRC

Bork
01-03-2009, 12:05
Go team Deamonhunters!
I got to warn you though, I started DH as a fun modelling project, with all manner of exotic troops like inquisitors, assasins, GK and allies. And now for some strange reason the army has grown al out of proportion to include both a guard and a space marine army. Don't know how that happened.
@Miggidy Mack How do you get your opponent to agree to let you use both the dh rules for hurricane bolters AND the sm rules for assault cannons and machine spirit at the same time? It's not very consistent.

Aubec le noir
01-03-2009, 12:34
yes the GK are worth collecting them.
It may be not the ultimate "kill-them-all" army but the minis are part of the coolest metal minis GW ever made, and it's an army with a lot of character and style.
and the colour-codes mostly used (black-red-white sometimes with purple) are simple but very classy IMHO.
so yes it's définitively worth the collection, but I'm a fan so I may be partial !! ;)
Aubec :chrome:

GeneralDisaster
01-03-2009, 12:43
I am considering collecting a Daemonhunters army, but as I looked through the GW catalogue I realised there is much more variety in a Witch hunters army. I don't want to collect Witch hunters, as my friend collects them, and I would like to have the Inquisition (minus Alien Hunters) fighting together against Chaos scum. I know you can have some Space Marine (what about Imperial Guard?) vehicles as well, but almost the whole of the army would be made up of Grey Knights, and that only consists of normal Grey Knights or Grey Knight Terminators (can you convert any Space Marine squad to be Grey Knights?). So now I pose you this question: Daemonhunters, worth collecting? :confused:

This is the player he mentioned, the Witch Hunters Collector. Alex, I really do strongly recommed you get them, even if just to whip Adam's ****. (Goddamned slaaneshi cultist) In any case, they are a characterful army, but not brilliantly variety-ish. Witch Hunters are better at Shooting, and DH are scarily poweful in CC (whupping the Avatar's ****...oh no, Calgaar beat us to it).

sigur
01-03-2009, 12:46
Daemonhunters, worth collecting? :confused:

Tell me, which army is not "worth collecting"? Seriously?


I mean, if you like them, go ahead. What's the problem?

Concerning the option of cheap-ass GK, sure, anything can be converted to be anything else. The only question is: Do you have the time and skill to make it good or will it be a Space Marine, painted silver and having a stormbolter glued to a Dark elves spear?

But really, if you want to collect a Grey Knights army, go for it but do it properly. This might mean that you can't buy like 3000pts at once (which is ALWAYS a bad idea anyway) but gradually have to build up an army. This is why it's called "collecting", not just "going out and buying". It's the same with any army. Either do it with commitment or don't. Both ways are a-ok.

The way I see it, the Grey Knights miniatures are very well done (given you like the style) and there's much you can do with the Daemonhunters list. So sure, go for it.

Miggidy Mack
01-03-2009, 14:37
Go team Deamonhunters!
I got to warn you though, I started DH as a fun modelling project, with all manner of exotic troops like inquisitors, assasins, GK and allies. And now for some strange reason the army has grown al out of proportion to include both a guard and a space marine army. Don't know how that happened.
@Miggidy Mack How do you get your opponent to agree to let you use both the dh rules for hurricane bolters AND the sm rules for assault cannons and machine spirit at the same time? It's not very consistent.

It is inconsistent! However it's the way GW wrote it! In their convoluted system the FAQ updated the rules for the Daemonhunters Power Of The Machine Spirit but not hte rules for the Hurricane bolters. On the downside they don't have rending on the assault cannons.

I don't like it either though Bork. I think a Land Raider should be a Land Raider. They should all have the same rules. It's the same weird errata/faq system that means Grey Knights can still kill models with Eternal Warrior using a Force Weapon.

We have a home brew rules that fixes those inconsistencies, but we meet with a lot of resistance getting some players in our group to use it since it isn't how tournaments run. For now, at a tournaments... the GK LRC can move 12" and fire 1 weapon and the hurricane bolters.

Bork
01-03-2009, 15:53
I see, i missed the faq about machine spirit. Thanks for the tip ;) It's a little sad that our assault cannons is worse than the marine ones but lately I'm leaning towards using strictly your own codex. Mostly because I don't want to have to buy new codexes for armys I don't own every time they are updated. Ap3 hellguns would be nice though :) By the time dh are redone the changes will probably be quite drastic.

laudarkul
01-03-2009, 16:45
It's definetely worthing collecting a DH army..From the models point of view at least...I buy 2 PAGK boxes+2PAGK w/psycannon+ GKT+1GKT with psycannon...I paint a 6 man squad and now I'm waiting the 2 man GK blister in order to work on all stuff. I also order another GK squad box so I'll have 6 GKT+19PAGK and together with an Inquisitor and 2 Assasins (Callidus &Vindicare) and perhaps some ST I'll be able in a month to start fielding and testing also a GK army...I can wait;)...Depending on my impressions perhaps I'll add some Dread's (those FW GKDreads looks awesome) and Rhino's/LR....
So for me is worth collecting....