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View Full Version : New Recruit! Need some Help/Advice please.



Roxors45
01-03-2009, 14:01
Hello everyone,

I recently got into the hobby again and bought myself up enough Fantasy Models to make two large armies (Lizardmen, Wood Elves). I used to play 40k in 3rd edition (chaos and ulthwe eldar) so have been trolling the 40k forums for a bit now. I've been looking to see what armies exsist and how they're all stacking up. First on my list to do is read the new rulebook (its 5th now?). I take to rules very well and will be competing in no time, but I just don't now enough about the new (considering they're all new since I've been gone so long) armies.

Is there a thread talking about their strengths and weaknesses? I always liked Imperial Guard, but never played them because they were so horrible back then. Are they viable yet (without having to field a ton of tanks, though that'd be cool)? How is eldar nowadays? They still have the Craftworlds? Touching on that, I see a lot of people talking about "I play Salamanders" or "I play Iron Warriors". I understand these are chapters of different armies (lots of dark angel players when I played and of course there was the craftworld codex), but how do they work now? Are they just color scheme or do Salamanders have different troop choices/allowances?

I don't want to just jump into the most OP'ed army that's goin to auto win, but I'd like something competetive and tactical that I can have fun converting, painting and playing. Thanks for all the help guys.

EDIT: And what in the blazes is Apocalypse? I've seen it mentioned with the same armies like thy share a similar rrle or model line. I.e. "Well those tanks arnt so good in 40k but more of them would be good in Apoc". Is it like Epic or Warmaster?

Lord Wasa
01-03-2009, 14:23
there is a new guard codex coming in May, The Dude has a thread about it in news and rumors. If one is to believe the rumors, Guard will be very viable in the future (though people said that SM would be TEH P0WNZ0RZ before it came out and it turned out it was pretty balanced). It does seem to focus on tanks though, but I think it will be possible to play a more horde-focused army too.

Dark Angels have a codex of their own, so do black templars and blood angels (the latter two are very basic, DA is a complete codex). Space wolves have a different set of units etc, but they also use stuff and rules from the new SM codex.
Speaking of it, the new SM codex doesn'r have traits, instead you have to use characters who give armywide benefits. there are 1 character for White Scars, 1 for sallies, 1 for imperial fists, 1 for raven guard and 1 for crimson fists. Of course, there are also 6 UM characters.

EDIT: es for the eldar, no craftworld, just one army list and one set of rules, but it it possible to use this to represent seim-hann, biel-tan etc

Shangrila
01-03-2009, 14:25
Apocolypse is like gaming without a force orginazational chart 3k points minimum. Guards about to get a new codex, space marines are all from one book unless your templars,blood or dark angels and of couse space puppies. Salamanders and raven guard have special charaters not special rules. you can convert and be competitive with just about every army so that doesnt narrow it down...

Roxors45
01-03-2009, 14:56
Thanks for the info so far. I read The Dude's rumor thread just now. Some good info though most of it (like stat lines and platoon orders) went over my head being out of the loop and haven't read the book yet.

I have to admit it would be fun to buy and paint up 1 tank at a time though storage would be tough with so many! How are tyranids these days? I got my clock cleaned with them so many times in the past. How bout chaos? They have similar sects or chapters like SMs? Or do they follow the gods and are given marks (similar to Fantasy) I see you can use the demons from Fantasy too in an army. How do they translate without having guns? I'm also intrigues by Daemonhunters and Inquistors mainly because they didn't exist when I played. Are they just Sisters of Battle renamed?

massey
01-03-2009, 15:20
Apocalypse is a rules supplement that came out about a year and a half ago. 3000 points per side minimum. There is no force organization chart or restrictions on what may be brought. It's "bring what ya got". So if you've got a 2000 point Space Wolf army, a unit of Dire Avengers, a Necron Monolith, Baharroth, a Hive Tyrant and 12 Orks, you can bring all that at once. Theoretically, you're supposed to have some sort of explanation as to why everyone is fighting on the same side. Ideally, it is designed so that people can set up massive mega-battles and tell a story around them.

Roxors45
01-03-2009, 15:32
Apocalypse is a rules supplement that came out about a year and a half ago. 3000 points per side minimum. There is no force organization chart or restrictions on what may be brought. It's "bring what ya got". So if you've got a 2000 point Space Wolf army, a unit of Dire Avengers, a Necron Monolith, Baharroth, a Hive Tyrant and 12 Orks, you can bring all that at once. Theoretically, you're supposed to have some sort of explanation as to why everyone is fighting on the same side. Ideally, it is designed so that people can set up massive mega-battles and tell a story around them.

Wow. Sounds fun. Gives someone with 12 tanks a reason to field them all :). I was thinking Tyranids would be fun too figuring it's the most Fantasy-ish army in 40k and probably has some close combat elements. Is there "magic" in 40k or is that what all these psychers are? I don't recall casting any spells when I played just rolling A LOT of dice.

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
01-03-2009, 15:45
Psykers are the magical things in 40k. Eldar for example have Farseers

Roxors45
01-03-2009, 15:53
Psykers are the magical things in 40k. Eldar for example have Farseers

How does it impact or effect the game? Is Psych more for support and rerolls or does it directly impact the game like it does Fantasy. If an army is without some sort of magical defense it can be at a HUGE disadvantage in a game. Is it similar in 40k or is the focus mostly on ranged and close combat? Also are there "magic" gear or items or do the plasma, multimelta, missle laucnhers etc constitute your upgrades?

susu.exp
01-03-2009, 16:31
Psykers have a lot less impact on the game than magic users have in fantasy. A lot of psychic powers are basically shooting attacks, the Tyranids Warp Blast is one of the lists most potent anti-tank weapons for intance. Eldar can use a lot of of psykers, most of them improving single units (giving them a cover save in the open, allowing the re-rolls). But most armies are viable without any psychic support at all (and some donīt have it available: Tau and Necrons donīt get any psychic powers).

Specific armies you mentioned:
Chaos does have a single list, which you can theme heavily. Some CSM players look back to the last codex, because some themes could be stronger (the new list doesnīt work well for 1k sons and Slaanesh armies lost the option to give noise weapons to a lot of their units). Most legions can still be represented rather well and if you want a chapter that went renegade after the heresy youīve got plenty of options.

Tyranids are still working OK, though some units have suffered recently. Gaunts in particular have fallen to power creep. On the other hand 5th Edition rules make Close Combat Carnifexes more viable and Genestealers have some new tricks up sleeves.

Daemonhunters are not Sisters of Battle (thatīd be Witch hunters). The army consists of Inquisitors, some Imperial allies (assassins, Inq. Stormtroopers, Inducted Guard and Marines) as well as Grey Knights. Grey Knights are very elite and have the point cost to match and generally considered an advanced army.

Daemons play decently in 40k, they are generally not considered game breaking (which I hear they are in fantasy). The whole army deep strikes, half of it on the first turn and the DS rules do not allow them to immediately assault. So most units will have to withstand at least one round of firing before they can kick into action.

In 5th Edition only troops can hold objectives, i.e. compared to earlier editions your basic units are more important.

grissom2006
01-03-2009, 17:05
guard has always been worth taking even with out tanks if planned out in the right way seen guard take out a CSM in three turns without tanks in support. role on the new codex i so want the valk don't care about the fact i already have 3 fw one airborne guard here i come lol

Grand Master Raziel
01-03-2009, 17:31
Let me chime in here with some points I hope will be helpful.

1: Army choice: no matter what army you pick, you will have a respectable chance of winning against an opponent of equal skill. Not necessarily a 50/50 chance, but no armies are auto-win or auto-loss. That said, if you're looking for a top-tier army, I believe the conventional wisdom would rank the top three as Orks, Chaos, and Eldar. Space Marines come in as a strong army, but with a dex that's better balanced than those three. IG still have what amounts to a transitional 3rd-to-4th edition dex, but are coming out in a couple months. Can't speculate on that very much beyond what you've already seen. Bottom of the pack are current IG and Daemonhunters. Then there's Dark Eldar, which are kind of an oddball, as you hardly ever see a DE player, the models are atrocious, and you can't even buy Codex: Dark Eldar in the stores anymore. That said, Codex: Dark Eldar is severely broken, with a couple of extremely exploitative power builds that tend to be what any given DE player is using when you do encounter one.

2: Daemonhunters are a seperate army from Sisters of Battle. Daemonhunters features Inquisitorial stuff and Grey Knights. Sisters of Battle are in Codex: Witchhunters, which could well have been named "Codex: Sisters of Battle with their Inquisitorial buddies".

3: Psychic powers: Unlike Fantasy, 40K does not have a Magic Phase. Psychic powers tend to be either shooting attacks or buffs to friendly units. Many armies have ways of hindering psychic powers, but failing to use them is not going to bone you. In Fantasy, ranged attacks aren't as prevalent as in 40K and units are bunched up into regiments. In 40K, shooting attacks are quite common (it's a rare unit that has no ranged attacks at all), and to put it in terms you'd be comfortable with, basically all units are Skirmishers. So, dealing with a psychic shooting attack isn't much different from dealing with a trooper with a flamer.

4: Characters: I bring this up because it relates to the psychic powers thing: 40K tends to play with a lot less Independent Characters on the table than Fantasy does. In Fantasy, you may field a Lord and quite a lot of Heroes, all of whom get to buy wargear, weapons, magic items, etc. You get your magic defense by investing in one or two sorcerors as Hero choices. In 40K, you can generally only have a maximum of 2 Independent Characters on the table, and you'll often only see 1 in any given army. However, most units have a squad leader upgrade that's like a unit champion in Fantasy, only the 40K equivalents tend to have access to a lot of the same gear that the Independent Characters can get. So, squad leaders function kind of like Heroes in Fantasy in that regard - they just can't leave their squads.

Incidentally, where in CT do you live? I'm in northeastern CT.

Roxors45
01-03-2009, 19:50
Great info Susu and Raziel, its cleared up a lot of things. I wandered into the 40k section of my local store and saw how updated some of the minis are now. I remember thinking the old warwalker was cool, but I like the newer one even more. and the new tyranids are REALLY cool looking. I gotta read the book right quick so I can form a strategy I'd like to use. So far I've liked the interesting platoon tactics and Tanks of the IG and the bizarre and close combat aspects of the tyranids. To be fair though I haven't seen many other write ups of the other codexes.

Do not many people play Daemonhunters or Inquisition? I don't hear a lot about them. I try to read the battle reports but all the abbreviations (do u guys have a thread explaining some of these?) and AP, ordanance, pie plates and what not have me all confused (after looking at the templates I think I get the pie plate one lol)