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Dakkapantz
01-03-2009, 13:08
Hey all,

Havent played fantasy in a while, and getting back into it. Im trying to make a good take all comers list, and this is what I came up with:

Black orc Big boss: armed to da teef, heavy armour, shield. (91)
Black orc BSB: war banner, heavy armour. (139)
orc shaman: 2 dispel scrolls. (115)

24 orc boyz: 2 choppas, full command. (193)
24 orc boyz: 2 choppas, full command. (193)
5 wolf riders: spears, short bows, musician. (76)

10 Black Orcs: armed to da teef, shields, standard bearer, musician. (158)
1 spear chukka: (35)


C&C are welcome and greatly appreciated, :D

Cheerz
Dakkapantz

Stuffburger
01-03-2009, 14:06
The black orcs and Bigboss with no magic items are questionable. Black orcs are always kind of hard to justify in general- choppas are so good there are almost no circumstances when you'd take GW over extra hand weapon, so one of their three options is gone off the bat. They also are only slightly better protected than boyz, while being double the cost. Small units will get shot to death and large ones are enormous point sinks.

The orc shaman could probably be replaced by a goblin/night goblin with staff of sneaky stealing for as good or better magic defense for a little cheaper.

The BSB and general should both be on boars for at least the armor save, and the bigboss needs some king of magic weapon. I like the "akrit axe"

Bricks of boyz are good, though I'd do one with shields. A little more variety to tailor deployment against what your opponent drops, though that's my preference.

Wolf riders and spear chukkas are good choices. Shortbows on the wolf riders are questionable but so cheap it doesn't matter.

Lord Malorne
01-03-2009, 14:24
I'd drop the wolf riders for two more spear chukkas, heavens knows you'll need 'em more.

Urgat
01-03-2009, 15:19
I'd drop the wolf riders for two more spear chukkas, heavens knows you'll need 'em more.

Yeah, if if wants to take on any heavy charger w/o being able to do anything about it, he should do just that. If anything, he should try and free enough points to get a second unit of wolf riders.

Full decked black orcs in 1000 points are not a wise choice either, imho. Too expensive, too small a unit, any missile unit will have a field day with them, and it's very bad considering you only got three units.

I can understand that you want to avoid animosity at all cost with your list, Dakkapantz, but black orc characters are just too expensive for 1000 points too.
In the same order of idea, you can save half a wolf rider's unit worth of points by taking a gob shaman. Taking a lvl 1 orc shaman with 2 dispel scrolls means you're not going to ever rely on magic, that's just for defense purposes. Therefore there's little point paying more for the bi waaagh spells.

Other than that, Stuffburger basically said what I would say, so voila :)

(Well, I would say a lot of things in fact, but i'm not a fan of orc heavy armies to begin with, so my other advices would be biaised by the fact I play goblin heavy).

Dakkapantz
01-03-2009, 16:07
thanks for the comments everyone,

Stuffburger: I see what your saying about the lack of magic items on my general. Ill give him the akkrit axe. Black orcs are not only better armoured, but are WS4, S4, and LD8, much better than a normal boy. But youre right about them being shot up. I disagree woth you on the shaman, though. I would gladly pay the 10 extra points for a model with better WS, T, and LD. Also, I think 2 automatically dispelled spells is better than one more dice to try to dispel something(I roll really badly when it comes to dispelling).
I think that the 2 choppa boyz are the only viable option, since 6 S4 attacks arent going to do much(thats assuming I get the charge).
thank you for your advice.

Urgat: I see what you and Stuffburger are saying about the black orcs, and I have taken them out.
I am probably misunderstanding you, but why would a goblin shaman be better than an orc shaman w/ 2 dispel scrolls at dispelling enemy magic?

Thanks again for your advice.

Cheerz

Dakkapantz

Urgat
01-03-2009, 20:34
I am probably misunderstanding you, but why would a goblin shaman be better than an orc shaman w/ 2 dispel scrolls at dispelling enemy magic?

He's not better at dispelling, he's doing it just as well, for 30 points less or something (not including the scrolls, I just mentioned them to illustrate that obviously you're going magic defensive, not offensive, so I meant take a gob shaman with 2 scrolls instead). As for the better profile, sure, but is it really useful? T4 or not, if they're targeted by shooters, they're probably gonners. You don't want them in melee either (they're squishy), and, in fact you don't want them in units either (a squabble=no magic at all). You want to dispell with him, you're hidding him somewhere, and he never pokes his head out. So a gob is quite enough :)
In fact, I'm usually giving myself two choices: either the cheapest one (lvl1 night gob shaman, you can't do cheaper in Warhammer), or the common gob shaman, so he can get a wolf mount and run out of harm at will. Other choices seem meaningless to me if it's anything else than a lvl4 orc shaman with full offensive gear...
And I second the staff of sneaky stealing thing. Remember, you get one more dice to dispell, but the guy in front loses one dice to cast, too. Compare the points, compare the hindrance caused, really. That being said, it's up to you, of course (I'm doing it differently, I take two shamans, one with that staff, the other with the staff of sorcery, that's a neat combo - well of course I'm sacrifying the BSB, but big deal, my gobs have such a crappy Ld, if they lose, that means they are at best at Ld6 near the general, so rerolling that, peh :p).

Luckywallace
01-03-2009, 20:41
If you don't mind the semi-hijack I am also putting together a 1000 points Orc and Goblins army and thought that this could be a good place to help each other cobble things together and exchange advice.

From my own point of view your army looks rather light on the numbers. I would ditch those Black Orcs for another unit, maybe Boar Boyz

I played an awful lot of WHFB with my greenskins back in 6th edition but recently I have only played 40k for the past few years. This is roughly what I have so far for my 1000 points. I am really happy with it except for... the lack of magic. Perfectly fine against Dwarves and Khorne armies... a bit vulnerable to others. The problem is I cannot wotk out what to loose to get a magic user in (I have a nicely painted Orc shaman all ready to go too...).

Characters:
ORC BIG BOSS - Light armour, shield, Martog's Best Basha

ORC BIG BOSS - Battle Standard Bearer

Core Units:
23 Orc Boyz -2 choppas, Boss, Standard, Musician

19 Orc Boyz - choppa & shield, Boss, Standard, Musician

20 Common Goblins - spears, Boss, Standard (not enough points for musician)

10 Arrer Boyz

Special Units:
6 Boar Boyz - Boss, Standard, Musician, Nogg's Banner of Butchery

2 Spear Chukkas

Goblin Wolf Chariot

* My current line of thinking is that if I loose the Arrer Boyz and the Boar Boyz's magic standard I can afford a Night Goblin shaman with a dispel scroll and some magic mushrooms giving me a bit more magic defence and a little offence. I also am thinking that the 2 Orc Bosses will go in different units but others may think it best to put them together, I'm open to suggestions.

Dakkapantz
01-03-2009, 22:16
If you don't mind the semi-hijack I am also putting together a 1000 points Orc and Goblins army and thought that this could be a good place to help each other cobble things together and exchange advice.

From my own point of view your army looks rather light on the numbers. I would ditch those Black Orcs for another unit, maybe Boar Boyz

I played an awful lot of WHFB with my greenskins back in 6th edition but recently I have only played 40k for the past few years. This is roughly what I have so far for my 1000 points. I am really happy with it except for... the lack of magic. Perfectly fine against Dwarves and Khorne armies... a bit vulnerable to others. The problem is I cannot wotk out what to loose to get a magic user in (I have a nicely painted Orc shaman all ready to go too...).

Characters:
ORC BIG BOSS - Light armour, shield, Martog's Best Basha

ORC BIG BOSS - Battle Standard Bearer

Core Units:
23 Orc Boyz -2 choppas, Boss, Standard, Musician

19 Orc Boyz - choppa & shield, Boss, Standard, Musician

20 Common Goblins - spears, Boss, Standard (not enough points for musician)

10 Arrer Boyz

Special Units:
6 Boar Boyz - Boss, Standard, Musician, Nogg's Banner of Butchery

2 Spear Chukkas

Goblin Wolf Chariot

* My current line of thinking is that if I loose the Arrer Boyz and the Boar Boyz's magic standard I can afford a Night Goblin shaman with a dispel scroll and some magic mushrooms giving me a bit more magic defence and a little offence. I also am thinking that the 2 Orc Bosses will go in different units but others may think it best to put them together, I'm open to suggestions.



A joint thread sounds fine to me:D. Thanks for the advice. Your army list looks pretty good. Definitly has a lot more troops than mine:cries:. The only thigs I can think of are that the unit of 20 goblins is kinda vulnerable. They probably wont ever win in CC without support. I would either increase the size of the unit, or make them night goblins and give them fanatics.

You should definitly have a shaman of some kind in there. I played a small game against a Vampire Counts army last week and got murdered because i had no anti magic.

Cheerz

Dakkapantz

Luckywallace
02-03-2009, 06:09
My 20 Gobbos tend to be in there to just support or get in the way.

Back when I did used to play a lot I would stick a Gobbo unit litterally in-front of an Orc Boyz unit as they advanced. This would draw firepower away from the boyz and when the enemy charged the Gobbos they flee, leaving the enemy with a failed charge and Orc Boyz behind the goblins ready to charge in. It required some careful distance judging but I got quite good at that.

Animosity could ruin the whole thing but then that's life for O&G's...

maze ironheart
02-03-2009, 10:12
Well you could take morks spirit totem on your BSB and place your BSB in the orc boys.

Luckywallace
03-03-2009, 06:32
I have actually been considering that myself quite seriously. I have never been one for factoring in Magic as a master-plan for my own tactical use and have always tended to go defensive.

The old Spirit Totem could work well with the BSB, and if his unit gets blasted to pieces by missile fire he can always hop across to the other Orc Boyz unit (or even the goblins if need be).

Looks like my Arrer Boyz aren't going to make it into the final list unfortunately...

Dakkapantz
03-03-2009, 20:22
Thats too bad. Are they any good? Ive actually never seen anyone use arrer boyz ever. Go figure. Always used spear chukkas instead.

Cheerz

Dakkapantz

Thargur
03-03-2009, 20:34
It's a 1000 point game and you have 500 points worth capturing in banners... on some very squishy units aswell...

I like the list alround but you gotta be careful with all those VP's around...

I'd also loose the arrerboyz as they're kinda useless and boost the 2nd orc unit and goblin unit a bit instead...

Sorry if you already explained this earlier in the thread - just discount it then... didn't read it all :(

/Thargur

Dakkapantz
03-03-2009, 21:04
Are captured banners really 100 VPs each? Blimey. Yeah Lucky, I might drop the banner on the gobbos since their a throw away unit.

Cheerz

Dakkapantz