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my_name_is_tudor
08-12-2005, 22:45
Inspired by General Samuel of the 101's thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18273) on the Grand Army of the Republic, I made my own attempt at representing the Clone Armies.

I'm big on Star Wars fluff, and have attempted to represent as much of it as is appropriate, in a clear way, in this: my Codex: Clones (http://www.freewebs.com/grimdarkness/CodexClones.htm)

I have left out the points costs for the tanks, and most of the points costs will probably need revision actually, but I'm crap at judging balance and effective points costs.

++EDIT: added the weapons stats++

Hope you enjoy,

MNiT

my_name_is_tudor
09-12-2005, 13:38
Right, I've updated it.

I've removed the vehicles (these will be included in a later article, with all the various republic vehicles in it (as there are so many)

I've got rid of the 3+ save for galactic marines, and given them a 6+ inv save instead (much more appropriate and fluffy), and made them an alternate troops choice

In their place I've included Clone Assassins, who have all sorts of nasty gubbins.

For now there is nothing in the heavy support section, and their likley never will be, as clones rely on vehicles pretty much exclusively for their 'heavy support'.

I've changed the rules for the focus visor on BARC troopers, now it just allows them to shoot their blaster rifles when they are turbo boosting (much more fluffy)

-----

Other 'codexes' I plan on doing:

Codex: Galactic Republic (other races/special units, e.g. Wookies, etc, maybe scenarios, and special characters)
Codex: Republican Armouries (all republic vehicles)

Codex: Droids (droid armies, no vehicles, just droids)
Codex: CIS (other races/special units, e.g. geonosians, trandoshans, etc, maybe scenarios, and special characters)
Codex: CIS Armouries (all the 'droid' vehicles, maybe some of the more uncommon droids)

Codex: Galaxy/ies ('neutral' races, e.g. tuskens, creatures e.g. acklay, etc, other scenarios)

Puffin Magician
09-12-2005, 15:59
I don't know if it was intentional, but it's basically an Imperial Guard list with renamed Doctrines [ATSKNF, Cyber-Enhance] and weapons. I can see why you would do this, as everything is easily explained and compared to existing unit/rule combinations. Keeping it simple is good, if you want that sort of thing.

But, since you're obviously going through the trouble of writing a Codex for Clone Troopers and a number of SW armies, why not go the whole nine yards and make up unique rules and unit stats? I've never ever seen a Storm Trooper brandish a CCW, so maybe make them Ws2? Just something different than Bs4 Guardsmen in Carapace Armour...

Assassins should probably be more Assassiny and be fielded alone.

Get working on the Heavy Support vehicles, that's what I was most interested in reading [and where the Army really gains some individuality]. Don't bother with "approximating points costs", just VDR the bloggin' things.

Cpt. Drill
09-12-2005, 16:14
Ho ho ho an army of clones... at leaste there is only one stat line to rember then.... budum-tiss

General Samuel of the 101
09-12-2005, 16:34
much more profesional than mine

my_name_is_tudor
09-12-2005, 18:17
The thing with VDRing the vehicles, is a lot (read all) of them are VDR-ilegal.

For instance, an AT-TE can transport 20 men, you can't do that on many VDR vehicles, not even your average Superheavy.

About them being just IG with different stats - this is of course, essentially true. I just wanted to make an independent group of rules, that can be used as easy as look on the sheet, theres the answer, rather than lots of counts-as units. My original plan was to just represent them as IG, never bother doing the 'dex. But when I ran into troubles with countless of the units that make the army cool (BARC troopers, Sky troopers, the tanks) I figured I might as well to a stand alone. The fact is, clone troopers are just psycho-conditioned normal-guys in carapace armour. And IG are just normal men in carapace armour - the similairties are unavoidable.

I guarantee though that when the other 'dexes are finished, an army of clones, tanks, wookies, walkers, and speeders lead by the one and only General Yoda will be very unique indeed.

Re: assassins: As far as I remember they are fielded in small groups, but what about 3 seperate assassins being allowed to be deployed alone?

The Republican Armouries codex will be coming soon, which will have lots of vehicles, mainly HS, but some fast attack, some flyers.

I'm currently doing the droid list.

Puffin Magician
09-12-2005, 20:34
The similairties are unavoidable.
Imperial Guardsmen and Clone Troopers are both "humans" in medium armour and given laser weapons, yes. But the universes in which they exist in are very very different indeed, and that's where I think the difference should be. You probably know the subtle differences between all the Clone Trooper units, weapons and skills better than I; put that to good use.

I visited Wikipedia and searched for the only name that I could think of: ARC Trooper. These guys look pretty nasty. Heavy Blaster Rifles, Pulse Grenades, Concussion Missile Launchers, or whatever they wanted, really. These fellows might warrant a 3+ save, 0-1 Elites choice, and a lot of fancy gubbins.


The thing with VDRing the vehicles, is all of them are VDR-illegal. For instance, an AT-TE can transport 20 men, you can't do that on many VDR vehicles, not even your average Superheavy.
Since you're building the army from "fluff", feel free to completely ignore VDR restrictions. If a vehicle is supposed to carry more than 10 troops, fine. Need a 54" Multimelta? Pay for the Longbarrel upgrade twice. Need a completely new weapon? Make one up and pay appopriate points. Forgeworld breaks the rules all the time. As a moot point, I believe an AT-OT (http://www.starwars.com/databank/vehicle/atot/index.html) [what you meant by the AT-TE Transport, I assume] is just large enough to warrant 2 Structure Points and 12/11/11 Armour anyway; it's pretty big.


What about 3 seperate assassins being allowed to be deployed alone?I find that much more appropriate.

my_name_is_tudor
09-12-2005, 20:55
3+ save can't really be justified on ARC troopers. Galactic Marines are the only clone unit to get better armour, and even then its only a shade better than the standard clone armour.

Despite what the article says about ARC troopers having access to jsut about anything, there is no record of them being given anything other than the missile launcher. I think the implication is that, if the need arose, they would find it fairly easy to request specialist equipment.

The AT-OT is a pure-transport vehicle based loosely on the AT-TE design. The AT-TE has room for 20 men without loosing any weapons, they can also be modified to carry more men/cargo if need be, but lose their main gun. The AT-TE may be justifiable as having structure points.. not sure

Puffin Magician
09-12-2005, 21:08
About the ARC Troopers, I figured it was a "if you need it, you can get it" type of thing rather than a more Bounty Hunterish "weapon of choice" selection. You could have 0-1 model in the squad be given a unique Assault weapon, and by special I mean given stats of it's own rather than nicking a Grenade Launcher's statline. That's the sort of individuality I'm getting at; the basic weapon could easily be s3 ap6 or even s4 ap6, and perhaps 18" Assault 1. Proton Torpedoes aren't simply Krak or Frag missiles, they should pack a punch similar to Lascannons. s9 ap3? Make up some weapon stats!

I'm suggesting the Structure Points simply from a visual perspective; the AT-TE and it's variants are Baneblade-sized, plus their legs. 2 Structure Points isn't that powerful if the vehicle has weak armour; which is why I suggested 12/11/11. The AT-OT would be, naturally, Open-Topped. I hadn't realized that the standard AT-TE could carry troops... why bother with a Troop version when you've basically got the equivalent of 4 Razorbacks in one model?

I apologize for all the "I want"s, but this seems like an IG list tweaked to represent Clone Trooper when, IMO, it should be a completely fresh and built-from-ground-up Codex: Clone Troopers. Which one are you going for?

my_name_is_tudor
09-12-2005, 21:42
I am trying to go for a built-from-the-ground up codex, but I don't want to do anything unfluffy.. hmm. I do see exactly where you are coming from though, don't worry. I am thinking of including a traits system (for want of a better word) to represent the ways that clone armies develop to the worlds they spend years fighting for.

RE: proton torpedos - remember, these are a weapon mounted on the front of a speeder bike, they're meant for chasing down rival speeder bikers.

ARC troopers: might give them deep strike to represent them dropping in from an LA-AT. Perhaps I could give them

I might make some weapons revisions, any you might suggest? I have a few in mind, such as making the repeater a 24" Assault weapon, giving the DC-17m two stat lines, to represent its modifiability (is that even a word?).

Puffin Magician
09-12-2005, 22:45
I am thinking of including a traits system (for want of a better word) to represent the ways that clone armies develop to the worlds they spend years fighting for.I'm intrigued by this; what sorts were you thinking about? I'd think something as basic as world-types making the difference, sort of like the Jungle Fighters doctrine but also for Mountainous-, Ice-, Desert-Worlds, etc.


Remember, Proton Torpedoes are mounted on the front of a speeder bike, they're meant for chasing down rival speeder bikers.
I guess it would depend on where it's used. X- and B-Wing's carry Proton Torps also, and they're used to attack medium starships with. Torpedoes designed to attack fast-moving bikes would probably be close to s7 ap5 Linked, PLX-1s might be s7 ap4 Blast, vehicle-mounted PTorp launchers could be 60" s9 ap3, etc.


I have a few in mind, such as making the repeater a 24" Assault weapon, giving the DC-17m two stat lines, to represent its modifiability.I'm all for that, maybe combine the Heavy Blaster Rifle and the Clone Heavy Repeater? They're both about the same as the lovable E-WEB, AFAIK.

DC-15: 24" s4 ap- Rapid Fire
DC-17m: 24" s5 ap6 Rapid Fire OR 18" s7 ap5 Assault 1
E-WEB: 40" s6 ap5 Heavy 3 [or Assault 24"]
Heavy Particle Cannon: 80" s10 ap1 Heavy 1 Blast, Ordnance


ARC troopers might get Deep Strike to represent dropping from an LA-AT.Why not give them the LA-AT? :D

my_name_is_tudor
09-12-2005, 23:06
the LA-AT will be included in the armouries dex as a seperate flyer, and will act like a landraider in terms of transport. so they'd be able to be given one, effectively.

As for the DC-17m, it has a sniper variant, a standard blaster variant (which is something like a mid-range blaster), a grenade launcher variant, and another one I can't remember I think.. so I can pick from them. I was thinking of an assault version and a longer ranged sniper rifle version.

As for the E-WEB, there are differing reports of its use. I fell in love with it through battlefronts 2, or the sort of pseudo E-WEB that features in that game, the clone railgun, which is the sort of weapon you fire from the shoulder while running about - so an assault weapon, and is pretty short ranged, so that's what I feel like leaning towards.

I think 'proton torpedo' is a pretty vague term in the star wars universe, meanign anything from ship to ship weaponry to a sort of grenade launcher. As long as it's vaguely torpedo-ish and uses 'protons' in whatever way a weapon might..lol

Puffin Magician
09-12-2005, 23:40
Hmm, well when I say E-WEB I mean something heavy. It's the weapon on Hoth that Snowtroopers try to fire at the Millennium Falcon, but is quickly taken out by a concealed light laser cannon. It has a tripod and has about 6 troops in the vicinity, so is obviously a heavy weapon.

Your shoulder-mounted blaster would be considerably different.

E-WEB: 36" s8 ap5 Heavy 3
A-WEB: 18" s6 ap5 Assault 2

I think 'proton torpedo' is a pretty vague term in the star wars universe.I know, that's why I suggested different stats for Speeder-, Infantry-, and Vehicle- mounted versions.

The DC-17s would work like a normal sniper rifle, although you could give the shot a better ap and lower the range [36" sX ap4 Heavy 1]. The Grenade Launcher could fire 30" s6 ap5 blasts [I'd rather not give it seperate Grenade types].

my_name_is_tudor
10-12-2005, 14:57
Well, the Galactic Marines are the regiment of clones that became the Snow Troopers over the transistion period between the republic and the empire, so it figures that the weaponry they had then would be updated - perhaps in order to give it better stopping power/range they had to make it quite a bit bigger?

I like the idea of the E-WEB and A-WEB though, I will run with that, and I'll put in some sort of heavy weapons teams.

The DC-17m is a blaster than can be field stripped, and have certain parts replaced, to change it's function. I think a dedicated sniper rifle would be best off as the Electroscope Rifle, the same sniper rifle Jango Fett uses.

I've had some other ideas:

Remove the 'therm' option for the PLX-1 Missile Launcher, as it is meant to be a dedicated anti-tank weapon, and give it stats corresponding closer with a lascannon.

EMP Generator becomes a shorter ranged assault weapon, that can ignore most any armour

I'm also going to change the name of the Galactic Marines unit to 'Space Troopers' And make them 0-1.

I'm going to make assassins 0-1 as well.

Possible traits: (all the names need rethinking...)

Alpha Training: Ld stat increases/special rules, to represent specialist training (501st)

ARC-born: BS increase, to represent being founded from ARC stock (327th star corps)

Harsh Weather: allows other units to take Space Trooper Armour (21st Nova (Galactic Marines))

Stealth: bonuses to cover saves, a bit like light infantry (41st Elite Corps)

Recon: BARC Troopers as troops (91st Reconnaissance Corps)

Skyborne: Sky Troopers as troops (Sky Corps)

Lancers: lance-like ccws/power weapons for BARC Speeders (Lancer Battalion)

Drop Troops: deep strike (lots of regiments did this, but the most noteable reference in the films is the 212th Attack Battalion)

Best of the best: 0-1 ARC Trooper squads as troops

-ARC: Stat bonuses to 1 ARC Trooper squad, maybe some other stuff (represents taking a/the Null-ARC squad)

Mechanised: may take certain tanks from codex: armouries as dedicated transports

Shock Troopers: weapons upgrade to heavy blasters for troopers (Homeworld Guard)

any other ideas?

my_name_is_tudor
10-12-2005, 15:51
Right, I've made some extensive changes, a lot of moving around, added some new units (clone commandos, clone veterans, clone heavy weapons platoons)

Check 'em out (http://www.freewebs.com/grimdarkness/CodexClones.htm)

General Samuel of the 101
10-12-2005, 17:10
looking good so far,

my_name_is_tudor
10-12-2005, 18:31
yeah, hopefully now it's more than just starwars IG, like it was originally.

I'm going to get on doing the vehicles now

my_name_is_tudor
12-12-2005, 14:44
Some other things I'm going to include:

jetpack and BARC speeder as wargear, so you can have people like commander Neyo, with his speeder squadron

I'm also starting work on the special characters. They will be split into Jedi, and ordinary characters. Jedi will have a set selection of special rules (a big list of something like 7) to represent the more general abilites jedi training gives. There will then be a standard Jedi option with three stat lines (master, knight and padawan) which you can use to represent jedi such as Ki Adi Mundi, Ayla Secura, whoever.

There will then be the more famous Jedi, such as yoda, anakin, kenobi, windu maybe, who will have their own special abilities on top of the standard ones.

Some of the standard rules so far are:
no instant kill,
fleet of foot,
ability to stop charges with force push,
ability to increase charge range,
different inv. saves for combat and shooting,

And of course all jedi will have a lightsaber, which I am currently saying is a power weapon that gives +2 S, and also allows the wielder to deflect shots aimed at them on a roll of 4 or 5 for each shot that hits, and if they roll a 6 it counts as having hit the unit who shot.

any suggestions for a general jedi statline?

Puffin Magician
12-12-2005, 20:09
The DC-17m is a blaster than can be field stripped, and have certain parts replaced, to change it's function.Aha, alright. I didn't think you meant variants in a field-strip way. That would certainly be a neat option mid-game. Don't move or shoot for a turn and your blasters turn into assault rifles?

- PLX-1 = dedicated anti-tank weapon
- Galactic Marines = Space Troopers, 0-1
- Assassins 0-1
Good 3.

EMP Generator becomes a shorter ranged assault weapon, that can ignore most any armourPerhaps it's the description of that weapon, but it doesn't sound very EMPish to me but more like a Plasma Carbine. I'd imagine it would work something like a Wraithcannon vs. Vehicles [Glance on a 4, Pen on a 5-6] and be rather useless vs. anything else.

I also like the Traits you listed, although I don't know enough about Clone Trooper organization and unit specialities to really comment. I like the sound of an -ARC unit, mainly because I like the funny "".

Some of the standard rules so far are: no instant kill, fleet of foot, ability to stop charges with force push, ability to increase charge range, different inv. saves for combat and shooting.No Instakill is good, FoF is good, but stopping charges altogether is a bit much; remember that charging in 40k means a big pile of guys running at you rather than a more heroic, one-on-one duel. I think FoF is sufficient for their agility so we don't need increased charge ranges, and I'd just give the Jedi a 3+I save against anything that isn't a blast/template weapon, and leave it at that.

And of course all jedi will have a lightsaber, which is a power weapon that gives +2 SGood. I'd give it s+3d6 vs. vehicles as well.

and also allows the wielder to deflect shots aimed at them on a roll of 4 or 5 for each shot that hits, and if they roll a 6 it counts as having hit the unit who shot.I'd incorporate the "Lightsaber deflection" into the generic Invul save, and shots "ricocheting" wouldn't always make sense. A Krak Missile would not flip 180 upon hitting the beam, and explode on the unit that fired it, for example.

Any suggestions for a general jedi statline?
Ws5 Bs4 s3 t3 w4 i6 a2 Ld10 Sv3+I for the Jedi Master seems appropriate to me. What are some of your initial thoughts?

my_name_is_tudor
12-12-2005, 20:09
Possible AT-TE unit entry:

AT-TE


Armour
Pts Front Side Rear WS BS S I A
13 12 13 n/a 4 n/a n/a n/a


Type: Walker

Crew: 7 Clone Pilots

Weapons: An AT-TE is armed with a turret mounted Heavy Projectile Cannon and 6 Light Blaster Cannons

Transport: The AT-TE can transport up to 20 Models

Options: An AT-TE may chose to remove its Heavy Projectile Cannon, and increase its transport capacity to 40 Clones for no extra cost.

Vehicle Upgrades: AT-TEs may take any vehicle upgrades from the Clone Armoury.

Ponderous but Purposeful: AT-TEs never count as moving for the purposes of shooting.

Thoughts?

General Samuel of the 101
12-12-2005, 20:21
WS6 BS3 for the master make sense.

my_name_is_tudor
12-12-2005, 20:34
i figure their BS will be pretty high, 4 or 5 maybe.

I want these guys to be unbeatable in combat, you've got to lay a shedload of fire on them to kill them.

Puffin Magician
12-12-2005, 21:19
I figure their BS doesn't need to be high because they aren't carrying ranged weapons. Uncivilized, remember? And Ws6 is probably better, indeed. Jedi work [in 40k] a bit like Harlequins, I think. Superkilly in assaults, useless in a firefight, and throw in the "revered leader" stuff.

AT-TE: I'd make it a Tank because in 40k a Walker is meant to be a lighter nimble vehicle, or an intentional assault engine. This beast is neither, and is slow and cumbersome, just like a big tank would be. It shouldn't be attacked in CC like a Walker, and shouldn't really get the terrain advantages that a Walker does. And even if you think it does, just throw on a Rough Terrain Modification for 5pts and get re-rolls on Terrain tests.

You should probably point out that the Blaster Cannons can target independently from the Particle Cannon, otherwise they're rather useless.

Maybe reword "Ponderous but Purposeful" to be simply "Lumbering", as in the VDR it's a vehicle that can only move 6" but can fire all weapons as if stationary.

my_name_is_tudor
12-12-2005, 21:21
Right, good ideas all round.

The reason for the BS is because, if called for a ballistic skill for whatever reason, a jedi would doubtless have a very good one, and if they use some sort of ranged force attack they might need one.

my_name_is_tudor
14-12-2005, 10:52
AT-TE


Armour
Pts Front Side Rear WS BS S I A
320 13 12 13 n/a 4 n/a n/a n/a


Type: Tank, warmachine

Structure Points: 2

Crew: 7 Clone Pilots

Weapons: An AT-TE is armed with a turret mounted Heavy Projectile Cannon and 4 sponson mounted Light Blaster Cannons, one at each 'corner' of the vehicle.

Transport: The AT-TE can transport up to 20 Models

Options: An AT-TE may chose to remove its Heavy Projectile Cannon, and increase its transport capacity to 40 Clones for no extra cost.

Vehicle Upgrades: AT-TEs may take any vehicle upgrades from the Clone Armoury.

Lumbering: AT-TEs may only every move up to 6, but always count as stationary for the purposes of shooting.

-----

Updated version of the AT-TE, thoughts?

also:

AT-AP


Armour
Pts Front Side Rear WS BS S I A
180 13 12 11 n/a 4 n/a n/a n/a


Type: Walker

Crew: 3 Clone Pilots

Weapons: An AT-AP is armed with a hull mounted Heavy Projectile launcher, a turret mounted Heavy Laser Cannon and an under slung Blaster Cannon.

Vehicle Upgrades: AT-APs may take any vehicle upgrades from the Clone Armoury.

Stabilising Foot: When the AT-AP remains stationary, it may fire all of its weapons.

(which is this, (http://www.starwars.com/databank/vehicle/atap/index.html) in case you didn't know)