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Boss Zagstruk
02-03-2009, 14:25
Im just woundering what the new standards will be for WOTR. How many points will most people be playing? 1000? I havent had a chance to read the new rule book so im rather clueless atm and everything seems rather cheap.

Garoth
02-03-2009, 14:41
Army size of 1000-2000 pts is recommended for normal 72" x 48" gaming table.

In the beginning of the book there is a partial battle report played with quite balanced 1000 point forces that included mix of different kind of troops. Judging from the pictures it seems to be enough points for a good sized battle, with enough room manouver your units around.

I think that it will be mostly 1000 or 1500 pts games for me.

blkdymnd
02-03-2009, 14:52
We played 1250 yesterday, I think 1500 will be just about right.

Mouldsta
02-03-2009, 16:18
1500 seems like a nice sized game. I'm going for 2K, but I like big monsters and their points add up really rather quickly - my dragon alone weighs in at 475pts....

thorgrim
02-03-2009, 17:36
I think 1,500 - 2,000 will be the standard points in my gaming group. I'm not gonna let that put me off getting my Elves up to 5,000 though.

lotrchampion
02-03-2009, 19:28
I'm currently planning lists at 1000pts, as that seems a good level for a fairly quick yet still in-depth game. I think anything above 2k will be pushing time for FLGS gaming though. Of course, w played about 15k+ aside at our preview day on Saturday, and that was over in about 3 hours (admittedly due to the mission objectives and time constraints). I think had we used a standard mission, had more time and all known the rules, it would've taken similar length of time. That is with around 10 players aside though. :-P

DrMabutu
02-03-2009, 19:30
The people at my local store seem to accept 2000pts as a standard sized game as it gives you pleanty of points to select a varied and fun army to play with.

W0lf
02-03-2009, 21:16
My group have all decided to build 750 pts to start.

We will all then move to 1,200 then 1750 and finally at 2K. My gaming group have kinda decided that 2K is the size for fantasy + WoTR (we dont like SBG) whilst 40K is best at 1500.

2K seems huge but by the time you have 2-3 characters, a couple of wizards and some command it gets small quite quickly.

alexh
02-03-2009, 21:35
My army is currently weighing in at around 2500 points and I'm not finished yet.

Xarius
02-03-2009, 23:17
1.5k is nice but i woul say 2k as standard

bringerofdecay
03-03-2009, 01:40
1000 points will be quite a small game (maybe 1 hour (give or take) worth of play), i reckon 1500 would give a good points/time taken balance, with 2000 being at the end of the time scale, anything bigger is still going to be a long game

blkdymnd
03-03-2009, 02:09
yeah, 2000 points seems high for us (but mostly because our gamenights span over an evening and not a 'day'). I played 1250 and had around 70 models or so. 1500 will probably give most the 100 model or more mark.

Znail
03-03-2009, 04:43
Hmm, I think 1500 would be a bit more reasonable as you cant asume that people will take the most expensive things just to keep the model count low.

ThrowN
03-03-2009, 10:36
can anyone plaese give a rough number of models I'd need for a 1500-2000 point army?

I'm planing to make a tourney army with one of the following themes:
- Dragon lead orc force (mordor orcs, no goblins, since I dislike the models)
- Peleanor fields Haradrim allied with orcs

Roughly, how many basic models (i.e. orcs, warg riders, haradrim on foot/mounted) will I need to buy and paint?

Znail
03-03-2009, 10:54
I think it depends entirely on the expensive things you get as only basic troops would net you upwards of 300 models for 2000 points. But there are characters that cost up to 500 points! So you need to find some point sinks unless you plan to get a ton of models.

bringerofdecay
03-03-2009, 14:47
can anyone plaese give a rough number of models I'd need for a 1500-2000 point army?

I'm planing to make a tourney army with one of the following themes:
- Dragon lead orc force (mordor orcs, no goblins, since I dislike the models)
- Peleanor fields Haradrim allied with orcs

Roughly, how many basic models (i.e. orcs, warg riders, haradrim on foot/mounted) will I need to buy and paint?

entirely dependent on what you have in the army, i'm doing easterlings (to start with) and i've got 1 formation; 3 companies of easterlings with sword and shield (and commander/standard), 1 formation; 3 companies of archers, 1 formation; 2 pike armed companies, khamul the easterling, and 2 formations of 3 companies of katerphrakts atm

77 models and i've barely even broken 1k (i think, i'll have to check again next time i'm down)

W0lf
03-03-2009, 17:57
To answer the question of costs...

most my groups armies @750 cost between 100-150.

My 750 pts of uruks comes to like 120 whilst my 1K is 128. So yes expensive characters are handy.

For anyone planning HE (like me) its an expensive ride.

Elrond + Gil galad are 12 for ~550 pts

meanwhile a box of High elves (plastics) is 15 for 115 pts. Oh and dont mention my rivendale guard who come in at 64 + Erestor for 3 bases. Mind you it is like 240 pts.


Oh and a mumak is 250 pts.

Blackknight1239
04-03-2009, 02:57
Any idea for Rohan? I'm think a calvary heavy list, with little infantry.

bringerofdecay
04-03-2009, 07:58
Any idea for Rohan? I'm think a calvary heavy list, with little infantry.

i think they were 30 points per company of cavalry (2 figures) and 20 points per company of infantry (8 figures) obviously not taking into cost command or archers (which i can't honestly remember the points for atm :() then you've got things like royal guard which are an extra 10 points a company and things like that, heroes are fairly standard 100-150 points

Lord Gordonis
04-03-2009, 11:42
Standard games at my locl gw will be between 1500 and 2000 as most people have got a big collection of lotr anyway. For my collection i have got 1,285pts for gondor, 1,010pts for wood elves, otehr good models I probably have got about 500-600pts which I havent included in the list I have made. 1,350pts for isenguard, 1,155pts for angmar, other evil models the total count is 750pts.

LG

Squidboy
04-03-2009, 12:59
Out of interst, how much roughly do companies of orcs cost?

bringerofdecay
04-03-2009, 13:51
Out of interst, how much roughly do companies of orcs cost?

15 odd points

Znail
04-03-2009, 14:32
So, 800 Orks for 1500 points :cool:

W0lf
04-03-2009, 14:40
yes but with no command or characters at that point.

Plus 800 orcs is like 510.

Ouch 510 for 1500 pts... thats nearly 3 2K fantasy armies :O

Crovax20
04-03-2009, 17:41
hihi, I just can't help but think how small my army is! I need more!

I currently have

5 companies of Urukhai warriors (figthting urukhai)
5 companies of Uruk-hai Phalanx (pikemen
2 companies of Uruk-hai scouts
2 companies of uruk-hai scouts with bows
2 companies of uruk-hai scouts with shields
1 Isengard Troll
12 Warg Riders with shields
Saruman
Grima
Lurtz
Grishnakh

I also have 1 command blister on advanced order

I am thinking about getting 2 companies worth of crossbows (this is gonna cost me), another Isengard troll, an Isengard troll captain, another 2 boxes of scouts..

God knows how many points I would have in total... I know the trolls alone would come in at 350 points at least. I reckon this is already well over 1000 points

W0lf
04-03-2009, 17:53
Uruk hai warriors and phalanx are 35 pts per base

isenguard troll is 100 pts

saruman is 240, grima 75, lurtz 175

I estimate you have about 800 pts. Scouts are around 25-30 pts a base.

Crovax20
04-03-2009, 20:19
Uruk hai warriors and phalanx are 35 pts per base

isenguard troll is 100 pts

saruman is 240, grima 75, lurtz 175

I estimate you have about 800 pts. Scouts are around 25-30 pts a base.


Hmm when I peeked in the book I thought scouts were 30 points and adding shields or bows would be +5.

So the actual points value should be well over 100... just those 3 heroes are already nearing 500 points xD

W0lf
04-03-2009, 22:04
lol yeahi was a bit of.

16 bases of uruks at 35 pts is 560
Troll = 100
heros - grishnak = 490 pts

wargs will be ~25 pts a base at my (pure) guess with grishnak about 125?

So yeh i stand corrected :P

Znail
04-03-2009, 22:17
Looks to me that 1000 points of troops is about max for a normal table, then asume some 500 points of characters and/or monsters. 2000 points essentialy forces you to spend 1000 points on characters and/or monsters as more troops will be rather crowded.

W0lf
04-03-2009, 22:46
Plus 1000 pts of troops is pretty expensive when starting from scratch.

Oh and by the time you sprinkle a few shamans/captains around and a epic hero or 2 you quickly lose pts.

For example my 2K list has;

Lurtz
Saruman
2x shaman
4x captain

Thats 815 pts right there.

VeriNasti
04-03-2009, 23:03
For my elves I want to take(1000pts)
Galadriel War aspect
Radagast the Brown
4 company high elf warriors
4 company high elf archers
3 high elf cohorts (1 with erestor)
2 companies wood elves
2 companies wood elf archers
2 companies wood elf spears
1 company sentinals
3 companies elf cavalry

How many points would you think that would be with and without command for all?

Znail
04-03-2009, 23:24
Plus 1000 pts of troops is pretty expensive when starting from scratch.

Oh and by the time you sprinkle a few shamans/captains around and a epic hero or 2 you quickly lose pts.

For example my 2K list has;

Lurtz
Saruman
2x shaman
4x captain

Thats 815 pts right there.

My point is mainly that to reach 2000 points so are you essentialy forced to put alot of points into characters and/or Monsters as you cant reasonably get that much in troops. So I think 1500 is a better size for standard battles as then you have more of a choise in how much you spend on what while you can still get expensive characters and such if you like.

W0lf
04-03-2009, 23:57
For my elves I want to take(1000pts)
Galadriel War aspect ~ 300
Radagast the Brown dunno. Guess about 175-ish
4 company high elf warriors 220
4 company high elf archers 240
3 high elf cohorts (1 with erestor) 240 iirc
2 companies wood elves 90
2 companies wood elf archers
2 companies wood elf spears (no diffrent to wood elves) 90
1 company sentinals
3 companies elf cavalry 150

How many points would you think that would be with and without command for all?

Far more then 1K. Elves are expensive.

My 750 HE is;

Erestor + 3 bases (max size)
2x 3 HE warriors
2x 2 HE Archers.

Thats 750 pts lol.

Marauder
05-03-2009, 00:36
Right now its pretty hard to grasp what a good troop:hero ratio is. My plan (and it may turn out to be a bad plan) is to use large melee formations with hero support (epic or captain plus banner), use 2-3 company formations with no heros for ranged support and 1 rare or 1 legendary monster type unit for each common unit.

It seems that heroes let your troops get to where they need to go and buff them up. However more troops = more attacks and more hit points. Seems like going to either extreme would end up not working well.

blkdymnd
05-03-2009, 00:37
yeah I went against a character heavy High Elf list last night at 1500 points that I outnumbered seemingly 3:1 with my Harad.

erion
05-03-2009, 01:51
I have a 1500 point Rohan list planned that comes to 96 models with a few characters, but is really heavy on infantry. 48 Basic Infantry models is roughly equal to 8 basic cavalry models, points-wise.

That said, 1 box of the plastic riders of rohan plus 1 bag of bases comes to $29.50 USD, and is 90 points. Adding a captain and banner increases the formation to four companies and costs 205 points. A full formation of basic riders costs 270 points, 370 points with full command.

Znail
05-03-2009, 02:10
For my elves I want to take(1000pts)
Galadriel War aspect ~ 300
Radagast the Brown dunno. Guess about 175-ish
4 company high elf warriors 220
4 company high elf archers 240
3 high elf cohorts (1 with erestor) 240 iirc
2 companies wood elves 90
2 companies wood elf archers
2 companies wood elf spears (no diffrent to wood elves) 90
1 company sentinals
3 companies elf cavalry 150

How many points would you think that would be with and without command for all?

Far more then 1K. Elves are expensive.

My 750 HE is;

Erestor + 3 bases (max size)
2x 3 HE warriors
2x 2 HE Archers.

Thats 750 pts lol.

That will obviously not fit in 1000 points. Elves are expensive so dont expect as many models. You force has over 100 elves and expect an opponent to get 2-5 times more models. Any battle featuring 500 models on one side is pretty large by my standard.

VeriNasti
05-03-2009, 02:20
Woah, I realised elves were expensive but not that expensive
They must be pretty strong then

bringerofdecay
05-03-2009, 07:27
Woah, I realised elves were expensive but not that expensive
They must be pretty strong then

high fight value, high armour, high courage, cause terror (is it?) among other things :D

Marauder
05-03-2009, 15:57
high fight value, high armour, high courage, cause terror (is it?) among other things :D

Yes, don't forget superior equipment (longbows, glaives and elven cloaks)!

bringerofdecay
05-03-2009, 18:17
Yes, don't forget superior equipment (longbows, glaives and elven cloaks)!

i wasn't aware elven bows conferred an advantage in wotr (i haven't had a chance to look to in depth but i thought all bows were a flat str 2 and crossbows were str 4)?

Godswildcard
05-03-2009, 18:21
Longbows have a longer range than bows.

jaws900
05-03-2009, 19:17
I have alot to do then as i'm going with Dwarf and i'm getting a brand new army for them and all i have so far is 1 box of Warrios, 6 Iron Guard and a captain + banner which won't even make 4 companies.
You you do a 500 point army if there are several people. But ti think most will be between 1200 and 1800points

Joewrightgm
05-03-2009, 19:21
For myself, I feel like the 'standard' army size is going to be about 1,500-2,000pts. Not sure if this is a by-product of my 40k conditioning, but constructing a list to one of those values feels more 'natural' to me.

Znail
05-03-2009, 19:43
Hmm, the point values are diffrent thou. For instance a basic Goblin in WHFB costs 3 points while in WotR 1.875. The points are worth notably more in WotR. So people who are used to playing around 2000 points in WHFB or 40k shoould probobly play 1000-1500 in WotR. Personaly I am used to playing larger battles so would probobly end up playing 2000 points in WotR, but thats with the knowledge that its a large battle.

You can get a pretty small army even at 2000 points by using expensive characters and elite units like Elves. But you cant asume that everyone will play elves so you have to take larger armies into account.

W0lf
05-03-2009, 22:24
Talked to my gaming group today.

We decided to drop the pts down to 1500 for cost/time issues.

For 1500 im planning a Elf army with Gandalf + Saruman the white in.

Spiney Norman
05-03-2009, 22:59
I'm starting at 1k, and working up to 2k for a Fallen Realms list combining my Easterling and Haradrim SBG armies.

The big 2k version consists of

Suladan
Amdur

6 bases of haradrim spearmen with cptn, banner and horn
2 bases of haradrim archers
4 bases of Easterling Pikemen with cptn, banner and drummer
4 Bases of Easterling warriors with cptn, banner and drummer
2 Bases of Easterling Archers

3 Bases of Easterling Kataphrakts
3 Bases of Serpent Riders
3 Bases of Haradrim Raiders
3 Bases of Haradrim Raiders

Mumak
Winged Nazgul

VeriNasti
06-03-2009, 03:53
I think that easterling list is more than 2000pts (i may be wrong)
From what i have heard Gandalf the white is around 350 - 400pts, Saruman the white 200( i ahve seen this) and radagast 200 - 250pts
All casters are tough as hell in WOTR - spells are deadly

erion
06-03-2009, 08:54
A Couple of us are starting with the forces in the downloadable scenario on the GW website. They work out to about $100 USD to get started, and are a pretty good core for the forces they represent.

W0lf
06-03-2009, 09:05
Oh yes magic in WoTR is deadly as.

I saw sauron kill a dragon in one casting of tremour...

skuller
06-03-2009, 22:55
I just got back into LOTR going to be fielding Wood elves in specific the Galadrhim so far have only 2 bases each of bowmen and swordsmen haldir and legolas roughly 400 points. Need more armored elves and the release of the plastic galadhrim and mounted wood elves :(