PDA

View Full Version : Getting Back Into Fantasy - Who's the Big Dog Now?



dragonbreath
02-03-2009, 14:34
Used to play Chaos and had a Khorne Army with light and heavy Cav, furies , fleshhounds, chariots, warhounds to provide mobiltiy - 2 characters-light to help with magic resistance and as many warrior units as possible - most armies I was able to give a good tussle - even army=killed a Bretonnian player once

NOW I want to build an Undivided army that allows me to put together 2250 warbands with unidivided, Khorne, Nurgle or Tzeentch or play a combined tournament army.

I went to a small tournament and visited some friends I hadn't seen in almost two years - it was wonderful and i remembered why i started playing the game. but i saw some things that made me think I might not get so many complaints about how cheesy my chaos army is if i play them now

Here's what i saw in 2+ hours

Two Daemon armies - neither seemed like great tacticians but both won handily - one army killed one of my friends playing a solid chaos mortal army and this guy wins quite a few tournaments

two undead/vampire king armies not particlulary hard and the dracula model flitting around the field kind of seems odd like playing hero clix or something

two Tomb kings armies (i like the looks of these armies - i have one almost completely painted) - one friend playing chaos mortals pretty much army killed an inexperience tk player but the other did good

Bretonnians were about to run an Ogre Kingdom army off the table and the ogre player was doing his best to stay out of combat - which seemed like an odd tactic

I like to play well and win games but I prefer to play armies like empire, chaos etc that look like a medieval army. Fantasy armies that look like a psychotic fever dream creep me out. I don't really care though if I lose if play poorly or meet a better tactician or smebody with too much firepower.

Sorry for the long-winded post, just wanted to give a little background. I really like the look of a chaos army but...

I want to see if what I observed is correct...

1. Bretonnians still look rugged until you slow them down

2. empire armies are still uncommon and tricky to play (too bad)

3. i was the only one playing chaos when I took my hiatus but there were four chaos armies - two mortal and two daemons - so not only are they popular they must be somewhat rugged

4. Daemon armies look not only rugged but are a little too tough - did somebody make a mistake on the new army book?

5. Chaos should be fun to play but now playing under one God (especially Khorne) might be a bit tricky

Any comments?

sroblin
02-03-2009, 15:23
Just some responses to your observations.

1) Brettonians are pretty rugged period. Their long and narrow knight formations are vulnerable to flank charges, but they should normally be able to charge on the 2nd turn and they have plenty of protection with the lady's blessing.
2) Empire armies are a very tactical army. They have excellent shooting and a fairly decent list; it is not considered a power list, but is not considered weak either.
4) It is widely accepted that Daemons of Chaos are the most overpowered army. It is almost legendary now: "...that's as broken as daemons."5) Chaos is no longer designed to play as a single-god army. You still can, but you will not be rewarded for it by the game rules, and a lot of the magic items that you might want to take are associated with another god. It's a matter of taste; you still can field a viable themed mono-god force if you want to (maybe you can re-fluff some of the items), but the book is designed to encourage multi-god forces and certainly you shouldn't feel guilty about mixing them.

Lord Malorne
02-03-2009, 15:26
If not Daemons or VC's go for DE's for the medeival look.

(which would be the most competetive out of the above in regarsd to also looking medeival)

dragonbreath
02-03-2009, 15:41
[QUOTE=sroblin;3340097]Just some responses to your observations.

1) Brettonians are pretty rugged period. Their long and narrow knight formations are vulnerable to flank charges, but they should normally be able to charge on the 2nd turn and they have plenty of protection with the lady's blessing.

this is a beautiful army when well painted and brutal to play against still it seems :)

2) Empire armies are a very tactical army. They have excellent shooting and a fairly decent list; it is not considered a power list, but is not considered weak either.

empire was my first fantasy army - i still have most of it - fun to play but pray for death if you make a mistake ;)

4) It is widely accepted that Daemons of Chaos are the most overpowered army. It is almost legendary now: "...that's as broken as daemons."

I have never figured out why GW does this crap - they almost get it right and then unbalance it again to sell more stuff - people have quit over their nonsense - like the assault rules change in 40K

5) Chaos is no longer designed to play as a single-god army. You still can, but you will not be rewarded for it by the game rules, and a lot of the magic items that you might want to take are associated with another god. It's a matter of taste; you still can field a viable themed mono-god force if you want to (maybe you can re-fluff some of the items), but the book is designed to encourage multi-god forces and certainly you shouldn't feel guilty about mixing them.

Empire, Bretonnians, and Chaos are the three most "beautiful" and fun to fight armies for me. I'm afraid you're right though and I'll have to put the Khorne army on the shelf except for selected units - don't much care to endure slaughter by magic and missile fire without much protection.

sroblin
02-03-2009, 18:01
I don't think you need to put the Khorne army on the shelf at all. You can in fact run most of the units as Khorne and do fine. I may have overstated the issue with the new book:

It's more in the character than the units themselves that you may want some of the other marks (for spellcasting especially, and the magic defense entailed therein). For units, the Khorne and Nurgle mark are both excellent, and you don't necessarily need to mix them. Khorne marauders can also be quite potent for the price. You may want a few unmarked units to serve as protection for your non-Khorne characters, but besides that there's not much wrong with a 90% Khorne army.

The other armies can all be fun and have their share of beautiful models; even Daemons don't have to be fielded in a broken way. I think the thing is to field the kind of force you find the most fun and inspiring to play and paint.

MarcoPollo
02-03-2009, 21:20
Fantasy armies that look like a psychotic fever dream creep me out.


that's hilarious. Amen!

I think I'll put that in my sig.

Aranel
03-03-2009, 00:31
To be honest, any of the 'new lists' (post High Elves) are very easy to exploit. On the tournament scene, expect to see a lot of daemon and vampire armies focusing on a sickeningly heavy magic phase. Lizardmen, High Elves and Chaos warriors can all be powerbuilt in the same way by a clever player. Dark Elves may well pop up from time to time with a magically defensive list.

Older armies are being used less and less; O&G's will rarely appear and neither will Ogres. forces like Wood Elves and Dwarfs will be heavily tailored in specific way, e.g all tree spirit or Thorek gunline. Although I admire your reasons for liking Brets and Empire, the same can be said of them. At last years GT, I faced 3 Empire armies which combined contained 2 Karl Franz's on Dragons, One War Alter, 7 Cannon's and 5 Steamtanks. the concept of a balanced army is often ignored as although it will compete against any opponent, it will not be strong enough to counter an army severely stacked in one area. I'd imagine that this is how your friend the accomplished general, lost to a player with little skill whose army selection wins for him. with such a range of potent armies to choose from, serious tournament players are not playing warhammer, but a game I like to call power rock, power paper, power scissors!

dragonbreath
03-03-2009, 01:00
To be honest, any of the 'new lists' (post High Elves) are very easy to exploit.

Great - 2 years - and GW designers are still at it breaking perfectly good armies.

On the tournament scene, expect to see a lot of daemon and vampire armies focusing on a sickeningly heavy magic phase.

I saw this already Saturday.

Lizardmen, High Elves and Chaos warriors can all be powerbuilt in the same way by a clever player. Dark Elves may well pop up from time to time with a magically defensive list.

Too bad - all the Chaos lord and hero models are quite excellent but only a few of the sorcerer models look lordly - and it sounds from my reading that I need a sorcerer lord in a chariot to keep my guys from getting shot and magicked off the table. dang!:skull:

Older armies are being used less and less; O&G's will rarely appear and neither will Ogres. forces like Wood Elves and Dwarfs will be heavily tailored in specific way, e.g all tree spirit or Thorek gunline. Although I admire your reasons for liking Brets and Empire, the same can be said of them.

I still have a huge Bretonnian army to paint and I plan on using them. Sounds like they better get there quick.

At last years GT, I faced 3 Empire armies which combined contained 2 Karl Franz's on Dragons, One War Alter, 7 Cannon's and 5 Steamtanks.

All the Empire rosters I played with and I never used a steam tank, dragon lord, or War Altar in a game. What is the point of painting all those core units?

the concept of a balanced army is often ignored as although it will compete against any opponent, it will not be strong enough to counter an army severely stacked in one area. I'd imagine that this is how your friend the accomplished general, lost to a player with little skill whose army selection wins for him. with such a range of potent armies to choose from, serious tournament players are not playing warhammer, but a

game I like to call power rock, power paper, power scissors!

LOL very appropriate - I want to play war games not advanced D&D (nothing wrong with D&D, mind you) - don't tournaments have composition rules still? that much hardware in 3 empire armies is crazy!:skull:

dragonbreath
03-03-2009, 01:04
sorry I lied - I have a steam tank somewhere - I used it in a friendly game a few times but never in a tournament - I think it's a doorstop in a back bedroom somewhere....

Dead Man Walking
05-03-2009, 10:37
Dear GW,
Please fix rock, rock is broken. Paper is fine the way it is.
Sincerly,
Scissors