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Calibretto
02-03-2009, 14:51
Hey all, have a question. All over the boards you can see recommendations and example of units "angling" to take big baddies/other units away from the fight when they are charged and flee. This sounds great but i cant find in the rulebook where this would happen. The only thing i could think of was the enemy had to align with you when they charge but the rules dont support that because fleeing troops move in compulsory (before the charges move so they flee directly away from the chargers) then chargers move in the next phase. What am i missing?

Atrahasis
02-03-2009, 14:53
When a unit flees from a charge, the fleeing unit moves away from the charger along a line drawn from the centre of the charger through the centre of the fleeing unit.

The charger must then try to reach the fleeing unit, by moving along that line.

Da_Viking
02-03-2009, 15:08
You have 2 concepts that you have to understand.

1) angling to get a unit to be positioned when they charge. Unit a charge your unit b. Unit B Holds and then chargers forward is facing away from your other units. This allows you to charge them next turn or if they overrun they are off chasing air for thier next turn.

2) redirected charges. Unit a charges your unit b. Unit b flees. Unit A can now redirect towards another unit that was in their original charge arc or can try and chase down unit b. Decission must be made before dice are rolled for distance travelled by fleeing unit b.

In the redirect you have to be carefull. some people play in the concept that if you declare a charge that you have to go the direction of the fleeing unit and any other unit you hit is your new charge. Some people play that you can redirect your charge to anywhere in your front arc of your original position.

As I understand it you can redirect to anyone in your original front arc as you are not trying to chase down the fleeing unit.

There is documentation in the BRB FAQ part 1 that shows examples of chasing a fleeing unit and coming into contact with another unit while chasing a fleeing unit. This is not the example of a redirect.

Calibretto
02-03-2009, 15:22
@Da_Viking: The first concept i definitely get, its the second that was giving me problems. Ill have to check out the FAQ

@Atrahasis:That clears things up a little. Any idea where the rules/errata say that?

Atrahasis
02-03-2009, 15:24
2) redirected charges. Unit a charges your unit b. Unit b flees. Unit A can now redirect towards another unit that was in their original charge arc or can try and chase down unit b. Decission must be made before dice are rolled for distance travelled by fleeing unit b.

In the redirect you have to be carefull. some people play in the concept that if you declare a charge that you have to go the direction of the fleeing unit and any other unit you hit is your new charge. Some people play that you can redirect your charge to anywhere in your front arc of your original position.

As I understand it you can redirect to anyone in your original front arc as you are not trying to chase down the fleeing unit.
This is all wrong, except the bold part.

Calibretto
02-03-2009, 16:22
After looking at the FAQ example i see what you mean Atrahasis. I just wish they had written explicitly that a unit fled from a charge on a line from the middle of the charging unit through the middle of the fleeing unit. Thanks!

Atrahasis
02-03-2009, 16:35
The diagrams on p22 might help a bit as well.

xragg
02-03-2009, 18:29
Da_Viking, you are playing 6th edition and earlier rules for "redirecting charges", while in 7th edition you have to run towards the unit you initially charged.

The 7th ed version does make more sense too. If you first charge something to your right, start to run at them, and they run away; how much sense is it that you almost about-face to charge something to your left? You do have a small leeway in the line you take towards the fleeing unit, as long as the charge path you take could catch the unit. You can angle your chargers to catch the left or right side of the flee-ers, whichever helps you hit another enemy unit better.

Da_Viking
02-03-2009, 18:34
Atrahasis: Where does it say I HAVE to follow the fleeing unit?

Da_Viking
02-03-2009, 18:35
I never played 6th edition and this is how it was explained to me. Please cite where I need to reread rules!

xragg
02-03-2009, 18:59
Atrahasis mentioned center to center, it made me curious to reread the FAQ example. Even though the BRB never mentions center to center, the FAQ clearly does for purposes of enemy in the way. I suggest you look at their diagrams, as the picture says alot more then could be written.

As far as moving your unit in a failed charge, you still have variance. In the same way you can wheel to hit the left or right portion of any enemy (while still maximizing models), you can do the same for a failed charge. I dont see anything that prevents that in the BRB or the FAQ, and is the way my friends have always played it. *Though I will have to point out to them the center-center for eitw, cause we were doing that slightly wrong (though not a huge difference from what we were doing to make much of a difference).

Page 23 has enemy in the way rules.

Necromancy Black
02-03-2009, 21:23
More to the point, there is no rule allowing yoiu to redirect a charge. Whoever explianed this too you was playing the old 6th edition rules.

If the enemy flees the only rules you have are for following a fleeing unit, which clearly say you must move directly towards them.

stripsteak
03-03-2009, 00:41
da_viking you might want to reread the 'units fleeing from a charge' section on pg 22. the 'a failed charge' section on pg 21, and the 'pursuit into a fresh enemy' on pg 23.

the closest that comes to redirecting a charge is enemy in the way. and it only applies if your initial charge move would take you into contact with a new enemy.

Neckutter
03-03-2009, 02:23
the rules for continuing your failed charge are murky. you dont have to continue pursuing your fleeing opponents when they flee from your charge and they successfully get away from you, all you have to do is go "towards" where they were. "towards" can be a real subjective thing. when i read the FAQ #1, page 2, top right paragraph i read that in a failed charge you CANT wheel at all since you will never catch your fleeing opponents.

for some reason atrahasis has this idea that you must charge the center of a unit you will never catch, which is not based on the BRB.

Necromancy Black
03-03-2009, 04:46
The rules on page 21 and 22, espicailly the diagram on page 22, show that the charging unit must move towards the enemy unit. They don't move towards where they were, they move to where they have finished moving after any fleeing. If doing this would bring you into contact with another enemy model then it's a new charge as per enemy in the way.

whiskeytango
11-03-2009, 04:01
i'd been wondering this myself

Nurgling Chieftain
11-03-2009, 04:47
"towards" can be a real subjective thing. ... for some reason atrahasis has this idea that you must charge the center of a unit you will never catch, which is not based on the BRB.I'm going to have to side with Atrahasis - that sounds to me exactly what "towards" means. "Some other direction" does not sound to me like what "towards" means.

Overlord92
12-03-2009, 01:01
Atrahasis: Where does it say I HAVE to follow the fleeing unit?

you don't *have* to. You can choose to attempt to retstrain your unit by taking a leadership test. At least that's what i believe happens, pretty new to the game myself.

and in addition, i was wondering... Is it a viable or smart tactic to have a front, weaker, fast moving(as to get 3D6) unit move to a place to where it'd be charged. Then when that unit is charged, have it flee behind a unit with a weapon that gains a bonus from being charged? Since the enemy unit cannot redirect his charge and must follow, does this mean it'd have to charge directly into the defensive unit?

Braugi
12-03-2009, 01:15
I don't think you have to restrain on a failed charge...don't you have the option of just moving your normal move distance in the direction of the fleeing unit? I'm pretty much a newb myself...

Overlord92
12-03-2009, 01:22
oh i think you are right actually. restrain is only for chasing after a unit that breaks combat. although i'm also not sure on this i think if you can reach another unit within the same charge in the same direction of the fleeing unit, u have to either charge it or move to 1" from it. otherwise yes you just move your normal move distance in the direction of fleeing unit.

Nurgling Chieftain
12-03-2009, 06:16
You're never forced to re-direct. Plus, fleeing through your own unit will normally cause a panic check. Still, there are times when it's not a bad idea, because even if they stop in front of the pikemen they're still kind of high and dry...

nosferatu1001
12-03-2009, 08:19
Test to restrain is definitely only on "overrun!", and is also only applicable if there are enemies to chase down - if you have destroyed everyone you are (normally, there's always exceptions!) able to choose to run on or hold.

Atrahasis
12-03-2009, 09:32
The choice you have is to charge any enemy in the way, or stop 1" away.

There's no option to simply move your failed charge distance.

Gazak Blacktoof
12-03-2009, 11:49
Test to restrain is definitely only on "overrun!", and is also only applicable if there are enemies to chase down - if you have destroyed everyone you are (normally, there's always exceptions!) able to choose to run on or hold.

Pursuits, not overruns. An overrun allows you the option to remain stationary or execute further movement. A pursuit allows you the option execute further movement or test to remain stationary.

Under certain psychological conditions (blood greed, hatred, frenzy) a unit may be compelled to continue moving or to hold automatically.


If an enemy fless from a charge you can execute a new charge using the enemy in the way rules if it is appropriate.