View Full Version : A question about 4 armies plus fighting at the same time.

03-03-2009, 03:06
How do you run an allied battle? I want to run a game with two armies on each side this week and I can't find the rules. How do turns work? Terrain? Are there any other considerations involved? Please respond soon!

03-03-2009, 03:27
Terrain placement is nearly the same or how ever the opponents wish to do it.

Then you roll to see who chooses the side and places the first unit. I have seen it done two ways. All four generals roll and the team with the highest roll goes first. Or just one general from each side roll.

Both armies place a unit and then both players on the other side place a unit. So on until characters. Which team gets done first gets the plus one.

Then you just play as normal with some exceptions. Example any HE caster gets +1 to dispell die.

03-03-2009, 03:57
At our club we've done it a few ways, here's some advice:

Just do turns for each team, not for each general; makes the game easier. I.e. you and your partner do all move, then both do magic, then both shooting, then cc, then both of them do move, etc.

Magic is tricky -- I would highly reccomend that either you keep everyone's dice pool separate (in which case you and your opponent will get 2 power and 2 dispel + army, but cannot share dice for anything) or do a shared pool in which your whole team generates only 2 dispel and 2 power (4 dispel for dwarves, et al). This keeps magic manageable; if you share the pool and run 2 DD/PD for each player you're going to wind up with almost as many dispel die as power die and the magic phase is going to a) take forever and b) do nothing.

'Friendly units' should count for your partner's units unless it specifically says 'friendly dwarven units' or somesuch. Fleeing allied units should be able to cause panic checks, but do not test off of your partner's general or BSB, and of course different armies cannot mix units together. Calculate combat res for your team, not your army.

2v2 at 2k each person is a good size. For 3v3 I'd do 1500 per, and above that you're looking at some pretty serious chaos.

Go heavy combat. It's going to turn into a giant melee. Trust me.

That's all the issues I can think of off hand.

03-03-2009, 04:52
My gaming group and I have had many a 2v2 and so here is some advice...

Like Dokushin said, spells and items that can affect 'friendly' units can affect allies but army specific cannot. Of course, characters cant join other armies units, generals and battle standards only affect their respective army and allied units dont ever cause panic.

In regards to the magic phase, each player contributes their dice to an allied pool. So two armies will generate 4 power dice plus any other items or special rules the armies might have. Any wizards can use these base power dice as if they were there own.

Also, I would try to encourage relatively balanced lists as two people going supreme magic heavy or shooty can really make for a dull, frustrating game. Like Dokushin said, the melees can get extremely vicious and really are the highlight of team games.

03-03-2009, 05:26
All this is very good stuff. I think I can run a very fun allied battle off of this. So to wrap it up:

-The allied armies can share power dice and dispel dice?
-Your ally's units do not cause panic to your army?
-Combat Resolution is calculated jointly if both allies are fighting the same enemy?

03-03-2009, 05:40
I would say this.

1) You and your ally share pool power & dispell dice.
2) Spells that buff troops only can be casted on your own troops.
3) Your ally and your troops can cause panic to each other.
4) Magic items that buff troops ie: helm of commandment cannot affect ally troops.
5) Your characters can only join their own troops.
6) Your characters leadership can only affect their own troops.

I probably missed some stuff, but thats as much as I can remember for our team battles. Everything else is the same as a normal 1v1 pitch battle.

03-03-2009, 13:38
Here's Avian's rule for multi-player gaming. God I love that guy. http://folk.ntnu.no/tarjeia/avian/scenarios/multiplayer.php

03-03-2009, 13:50
A few people have suggested that spells and items that can affect 'friendly' units can affect allies but army specific cannot.

I'd be carefull with this. An example is... i have O&G, the Waaagh spell affects all friendly units. So if i'm allied with WoC his whole army moves an extra 2d6", has ASF and reroll missed hits. Also horn of urgok affects him as well.

It may work with the armies you're using. I like multi-player games, they are great fun, but WHFB isn't designed with multi-player games in mind.

The Clairvoyant
03-03-2009, 14:13
Be careful with 'friendly unit' descriptions.

We often play 8000pt games with 2v2.
We don't allow allied units to be have friendly spells cast on them. For example, i often use my vamps and tomb kings in the same side vs my opponents armies. If they all counted as friendly, i'd be able to cast invocation on tomb king archers to make them bigger than their starting size and use incantation of urgency on blood knights.

However, an allied unit is not affected by things such as the casket of souls.

You just need to use a little common sense and things work out nicely.
Incidentally, we split the pool dice, one to each player. Unfortunately, that doesnt help my vamp/TK set-up but it makes it fairer.

03-03-2009, 14:47
We play a lot of multi player battles here as well. It's the best way to get all who can play to play, since we have limited opportunity with kids and jobs and school and everything.

We run each army separate, except that they take their turn and set up together. so friendly spells are only for your army. psychology is only for your units too, so if my clanrats break in front of his big uns, the orcs dont have to test. it may not make the msot sense, but it keeps it clear and easy.

03-03-2009, 15:10
The easiest way to do it is the same as any other battle. So if playing 4k, build two 2k armies for each team, but still only have 2 pool dice per side.

03-03-2009, 15:22
Having played a 2000 point game where we jointly generated power and dispell dice (ie 2 base power + 2 base power), I'd highly reccomend against that. The magic phase took longer than it should and still very little happened.
I'd generate power and dispell dice as if you were one army not 2 seperate and could therefore share dice. Personally if one player was a dwarf I'd average out the 2 allies, so you would have 3 dispell dice base.

The Red Scourge
03-03-2009, 16:09
Try and pick up an old generals compendium. It has loads of ideas for doing allied battles and other stuff :)

The SkaerKrow
03-03-2009, 17:07
The way that I handled magic during the Sustained Assault Rotating Team Game that I ran last year was for every player on both teams to get their own Magic Phase. When the magic phase began, a player from the active team (the team who was casting) would nominate one of their team members to cast, while the opposing team nominated one of their members to handle dispel duties. After that was resolved, the next player on the active team would cast, and a different member of the opposing team dispelled. This went back and forth until every player on the active team that turn had a chance to cast.

As a rule, spells that affected "friendly units" only worked on your own troops.

03-03-2009, 17:17
we've done this:

-each team only generates 2 PD + 2DD, anyone can use them. in the case of dwarfs getting an extra 2DD, they can only be used against spells that are targeting the dwarf player, or against spells that the enemy uses that doesnt target you or your teammate (boosting his own guy with bears anger for example)

-if a wood elf mage has the wand of wych elm, or HEs get +1 to dispel, then the wood elf player/HE player is the one who has to actually roll the dice (we all know some people are MUCH luckier than others.. if you want the bonus, you have to make the roll)

-no sharing of generals LD, army BSBs, allies dont panic each other, etc.

-items/spells that say 'target friendly unit', 'all friendly units within X inches" or something is free game and can be cast on allies. thats written clearly enough i think to not be an issue.

Wolf 11x
03-03-2009, 17:28
We pretty much only play 2v2s in 40k and Fantasy and follow a few general guidelines:

1) Each player's army must meet the standard composition requirements.
2) Both players function as one. In other words, one entire side declares charges, moves, shoots, etc. as if they were one army.
3) No dice, abilities, spells, etc. are shared between armies. NOTHING. A prime example is synapse.

We have had plenty of fun and fair games this way.

03-03-2009, 17:43
We nearly always play team games in our group. We love playing 3v3 at 2-3000 points/player on massive tables.

Here are some of the rules we use:

-Magic is handled on a per-player basis for pools. Any ONE player may choose to dispel a spell, MR only works if the controling player is dispelling. We used to combine pools, but with 7th ed having wizards only access their own dice and common pool, we eliminated it to be more in line.

- Units cannot benefit from allied character's Leadership. It encourages you to spread your characters around to help lead your army on various parts of the field.

- Allied units cannot induce panic in your units. If you can't be inspired by allies, why would you worry about them?

- Spells are a bit trickier. Generally speaking, any of the 8 basic lores can affect allied units, while race-specific lores cannot. This helps to encourage some variety in our lists, and helps to limit spell abuse (no raising Grail Knights for your Bretonian friend) for certain race spells.

- Combat Res is calculated per side, not per player.

- Deployment is done per side, not per player

- All turns are played per side, not per player to help speed things along.

- Allied players can give control of units to each other to help speed the game along and keep each other involved if one player is eliminated.

- Each army involved must be a valid army adhering to all composition requirements.

04-03-2009, 03:29
Thank you everyone for the helpful tips.