PDA

View Full Version : Why do so many people like Ultramarines?



Far Seer
03-03-2009, 07:21
Personally, no offense to UM players, but Ultamarines isn't my favorite chapter, i mean what is so good about them? is it because they were the first chapter in the days of Rogue Trader?

wilsmire
03-03-2009, 07:25
I guess people like them cause they got more special charitors and they hare more pics of them. But i have no idea really since i play Dark Angels

squeekenator
03-03-2009, 07:26
They look pretty cool and they're the poster boys. Everything is going 'Yay Ultramarines, Marneus Cowgirl kicks ass, collect Ultramarines!".

Solar_Eclipse
03-03-2009, 07:26
They were not the first chapter in Rogue trader. Pretty much the only chapter which would have anything approaching that title is the Crimson fists.

Ultramarines are cool because if you read their Index Astartes they actually do have some cool background, and if you want to go for a classical theme to your marines they are the best way to go.

holmcross
03-03-2009, 07:28
Because its what's represented the most, and the bulk of people will gravitate towards things that are familar. If you don't agree, you should inform the multi-billion dollar advertising industry that they're doing things wrong.

Of course, there are people who aren't buying them as a knee-jerk reaction to that familarity, but its my hypothesis as to why they're the most widely-played.

Oh and Omega symbols are SO KEWL!

Luckywallace
03-03-2009, 07:35
I don't play Ultramarines (or any space marines) and doubt I ever will but I do really like the Ultras, I would put it down to their colour scheme and background. Blue is my favourite colour and I just really like the fluff of the Ultras, they are the archetypal heroes and stand out a bit in the 40k galaxy a bit for that.

Brucopeloso
03-03-2009, 07:53
Ultramarines have a nice and pleasant color scheme and a background that is non polarizing.

In other words other chapters al have flaws and quirks that some player like and other players dislike while Ultramarines are the classic good and noble guys and are non treathening enough to be liked by most.

To be honest I loved the color scheme and the iconography but now that they are led by the god of war and are what all marines aspire to be when they grow up I just cannot stand them :wtf:

Brucopeloso
03-03-2009, 08:03
Ultramarines have a nice and pleasant color scheme and a background that is non polarizing.

In other words other chapters al have flaws and quirks that some player like and other players dislike while Ultramarines are the classic good and noble guys and are non treathening enough to be liked by most.

To be honest I loved the color scheme and the iconography but now that they are led by the god of war and are what all marines aspire to be when they grow up I just cannot stand them :wtf:

SylverClaw
03-03-2009, 08:36
Always so much hating for these guys.

When I first started this hobby, way back at the dawn of 2nd edition, Ultramarines were the first models I painted. Badly. I've always had a soft spot for them since then and even enjoy their background.

However, I also love all the Fist related chapters. Crimsons will be my next army.

Legionary
03-03-2009, 08:50
I think people go with UM almost by default, since they tend to be the chapter featured on the box art. To me they're one of the least interesting chapters, if only because they not only adhere to the Codex Astartes, they pretty much wrote it!

I'm not a smurf-hater though; people can collect whatever army they like. I will admit, though, that I'd much rather be fighting the Imperial Fists, Salamanders, White Scars, Dark Angels etc - just so much more interesting background!

Znail
03-03-2009, 09:23
Where do you get that alot of people like Ultramarines? I think BT, BA, DA and SW are all more popular. Ultramarines are probobly ahead of the rest of the chapters thou.

mughi3
03-03-2009, 09:34
Im with Znail on this one. most people loathe UMs because they come across as having to much starch in their breaches. what people do now with the new dex is the the special characters in there "successor" or DIY army because the characters unlock certain builds.

Leo
03-03-2009, 10:12
Personally, no offense to UM players, but Ultamarines isn't my favorite chapter, i mean what is so good about them? is it because they were the first chapter in the days of Rogue Trader?

People like Ultramarines? Thatīs news to me.

All you ever read is comments like `OMFG, stoopit UltraSMurfs, lulz` no matter what topic is actually discussed.
This of course peaked with the release of the new Codex because an Ultramarine defeated an Avatar.
All the whining and sobbing was pretty entertaining to read so I didnīt mind.
In the Orc Codex some Boss brought down a Warlord Titan and noone raised an eyebrow. Calgar defeated a model that's a hundred points cheaper than him and all Warseer went up in flames.
With that in mind I am really glad, Ultramarines exist, although I can imagine that it's a lot less funny if you actually play them yourself.
In that case I recommend B&C if you want to not be flamed for more than one post.


I also haven't seen Ultramarines on the tabletop in years.

Vaktathi
03-03-2009, 10:15
Personally, no offense to UM players, but Ultamarines isn't my favorite chapter, i mean what is so good about them? is it because they were the first chapter in the days of Rogue Trader?

I'd guess several factors. First is that they are on *everything* with a 40k logo. Second, they are continually built up to ever more ridiculous standards, even compared with other SM armies, so that they are the elite of the elite Space Marines, and nobody wants to play anything but the most badass dudes. Third, they are *very* easy to paint and are instantly recognizable anywhere. Fourth, they are a clear "good guy" faction amongst the Imperium, a protagonist in every way, they are *the* good guys, there to save the day when something needs to be put down no matter how ridiculous it is that a mere 1000 dudes stops it.

Marlow
03-03-2009, 10:18
I only play occasional games of 40k so Ultramarines have some advantages.
1) They are easy to paint.
2) I can buy them pre-painted off ebay easier than any other chapter
3) I like blue! My troops look cool all lined up ready to fight.

Paddy Mcfee
03-03-2009, 10:26
I'm currently repainting the Ultramarine 3rd company I've been collected since I started playing with 2nd Edition Space Hulk. When I was 8. When I was 8, my favourite colour was blue. Since then I've got intrested in the background and really quite liked the whole "classical" feel of them. Noble and "do-gooder" but proud and traditionalist. However the latest codex has put me off them somewhat, so I choose to treat it as propaganda. I prefer my geneocidal, arrogant, uncompromising killing machines as just that please.

Nero
03-03-2009, 10:46
12 year olds make up the majority of 40k's demographic. With that in mind, the Ultramarine's fluff is specially designed to appeal to them;

1) The Ultramarine's fluff is written by (or somebody with the mental age of) a 12 year old.

2) They're called Ultramarines. This name could not be more appealing to 12 year olds. Well, unless they change their name to the Megamarines...

3) They're blue. It's proven, 100% factual scientific opinion that 12 year olds can only see the colour blue, as their tiny brains are not yet capable of processing more complex colours.

That's why they're the most popular.

captain ceaser
03-03-2009, 10:47
Generally they are hated!

I collect them because:
1) nice colour scheme (Im talking the darker varient of them)
2) nice background (older fluff. The new stuff is way OTT)
3) I really like the whole romen/greek thing they got going on
4) the marneus Calgar model is freaking beautiful
5) i likethe whole good guys approach too.

RCgothic
03-03-2009, 11:06
I have an Ultramarines successor chapter, the Ultrahawks, with a pretty similar colour scheme to Ultramarines.

Now I wish I'd maybe done a different colour for more than just the standard 'one colour gets boring after 7000pts'. The constant whining that my army is nothing but 'UltraSmurfs' seriously grates on my nerves. I have not a single special character, and probably never will, but still my army attracts flak from the haters.

I can see how the new codex was fairly unintelligent in the background section, but that's no excuse to go around giving people grief just because their army includes the colour blue. In an individual case of a 12yo crowing 'My Army is da Bestest because I havs Calgar!', fair enough, let him have it, but please, please, leave the rest of us alone so we can all just enjoy the hobby as we like.

NightrawenII
03-03-2009, 11:30
In the Orc Codex some Boss brought down a Warlord Titan and noone raised an eyebrow.

Wait what??:confused:
I need check the Ork codex and start thread about this ridiculous story.:evilgrin:

Solar_Eclipse
03-03-2009, 11:36
12 year olds make up the majority of 40k's demographic. With that in mind, the Ultramarine's fluff is specially designed to appeal to them;

1) The Ultramarine's fluff is written by (or somebody with the mental age of) a 12 year old.

2) They're called Ultramarines. This name could not be more appealing to 12 year olds. Well, unless they change their name to the Megamarines...

3) They're blue. It's proven, 100% factual scientific opinion that 12 year olds can only see the colour blue, as their tiny brains are not yet capable of processing more complex colours.

That's why they're the most popular.

And you, having the mental age of 13, is entirely immune to this.

Seriously, try and just talk rationally.

firstly i havent seen a 40k player under 14 for years

Secondly ive seen 1 ultramarine army, and it was by a guy named Troy. It then appeared in OZ White Dwarf.

Standfast
03-03-2009, 11:50
Its part of the pre game banter and overall wargaming experience in many ways. If your chapter has a background you like or allows you to take the moral high ground you can use it to noise up you opponent, in the nicest and most fun way possible.

I have been playing for 19 years and have played most armies (I only lack an Ork army). With Marines I started with the Sons of Russ, then with 3rd edition, I fancied something less barbaric, and made Dark Angels. They didn't sit right with me (not surprising really).

With 5th edition I decided it would be highly amusing to build an Ultramarines second company (all of it) to pass the time until the new wolves codex. It was nice to be able to use codex patterns from Insignium Astartes. So far I am not too fussed about the background but I do get a few pangs of regret when I see stuff like this being posted ( I lurk alot).

Thoughts like will everyone I play think I am a noob or just gone mad for example. But then I think "I do hope so - they may let their guard down making it much easier to defeat them".

I guess I am saying don't make too much of it. Its just background fluff. There are various naff parts about other chapters and serious inconsistancies that have been reconned away. Just remember we are all at the mercy of GW fluff writers in that respect.

Arkondak
03-03-2009, 11:52
i havent seen a 40k player under 14 for years

Trust me, they're there.

I see two to three of them every time i go in the GW store in Orange CA. There's a few in the bunker in westminster most of the times i go there too. It really is good marketing for Games Workshop to attract the kids, if you catch 'em young you can get them hooked keep 'em for years. Like smoking, or meth.

I was initially attracted to ultramarines when i started playing because they were on the cover of the 3rd edition codex, and they were less grimdark than most of the other chapters, and i wasn't a huge fan of the grim darkness thing at first. I stopped because i thought blue armor would be way too visible on the battlefield. Now i play dark angels, and they're more grimdark than just about anyone, so go figure...

Eryx_UK
03-03-2009, 11:56
I think its just a case of seeing them everywhere - on the boxes, on the cover of WD...etc, and cynical players get sick of it.

Nero
03-03-2009, 12:05
Trust me, they're there.

My local GW store on a saturday or sunday... it's seething with kids. They're like lice. They outnumber the older patrons 20:1, and half their armies are Ultramarines.

Oh yes, they're out there...

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
03-03-2009, 12:07
I have been playing 40k for about 6 years now. I have never seen an Ultramarine army on the table top. I have seen a few BA, BT, DA, SW and even Relictors, but custom chapters make up the majority.

RCgothic
03-03-2009, 12:11
If you play in a GW store you'll see plenty. But it's getting to the stage where all the haters are seriously detracting from my enjoyment of my army, even though I only play a successor chapter.

Norsehawk
03-03-2009, 12:14
Ultramarines for the most part have the most special models made for them. They also have a paint scheme that is relatively easy to paint, and it looks good. It makes for a very striking looking army when fully painted.

Marneus Calgar and Honor Guard
Ultramarines Chaplain Cassius
Ultramarines Chief Librarian Tigurius
Ultramarines Captain Sicarius
Ultramarines Tyranic War Veterans 1
Ultramarines Tyranic War Veterans 2
Space Marine Scout Sergeant Telion
Space Marine Sergeant Chronus


Can you find any other space marine chapter with that many special characters or unique options available to them? I personally rather like the Ultras, I don't want an army of them, but they are a nice looking army.

Inquisitor S.
03-03-2009, 12:15
I was initially attracted to ultramarines when i started playing because they were on the cover of the 3rd edition codex

It was Crimson Fists (again) on the Codex cover. And I don't think that the OP's statement holds any thorough examination, most SM-Players don't go for the Codex chapters but for the "deviant" chapters.

And whoever said that they're so well liked because they're easily recognizable: ridiculous, the same is true for any other chapter using one main colour.


Can you find any other space marine chapter with that many special characters or unique options available to them? I personally rather like the Ultras, I don't want an army of them, but they are a nice looking army.

What people tend to forget that the UM had virtually no attention paid to by GW between 2nd edition and now, so if you consider the BA, DA and SW special characters and units that got rules at some point I don't think the UM have so many more.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
03-03-2009, 12:25
Wow. If I was more cynical, I'd think someone started this thread just to bring out all the Ultramarine hate.

People like them because they are the epitome of what it means to be a Space Marine. How do I know that? Because GW tells me they do, and they made up the game and background. They also have a lot of special characters with interesting background and good/competitive/fun special rules. Also, The are featured a lot by the 'Eavy Metal painters, and where Space Marines are the iconic race of 40K, Ultramarines are the iconic Chapter. By iconic I mean easily recognized and known throughout the hobby, and probably everyone could tell you who their special characters are, what some of their history is and what they stand for.

There was already a ton of Ultramarines hate before the newest codex came out, but the overzealous and often ridiculous background material included within has supercharged the anti-Ultramarine crowd, infusing it with Space Marines other than Ultras or other codex Chapters. Some folks hate them because they get so much attention (more than whatever they prefer), some because they think they're incredibly boring, some because they have a anti-hero mindset that will not allow them to enjoy the "goody-goody" army, and some hate them because it's cool.

So, Timmy, you're not alone in your Ultramarines hate. As far as this forum goes, you're probably in the majority. I don't even play the boys in blue any longer, I've gone green(WAAAGH!), but seeing so much overwhelming antipathy towards a fictional set of plastic fellas still confuses and saddens me.

the1stpip
03-03-2009, 12:32
I like Ultramarines, cos when I first started playing 40k 2nd ed, a friend sold m a large Ultramarine army, and even though I don't play them anymore (don't even own them now) I still have a soft spot for them.

Poseidal
03-03-2009, 12:45
I think the reason they're popular is due to GW marketing; one wouldn't know that other chapters, or even armies exist!

But seriously, the Crimson Fists need more love. These were the cover boys for the first rulebook evor but have been relegated to being a successor chapter and bit player with a devastated headcount.

In RT, the Ultramarines were a successor chapter. To the Rainbow Warriors no less.

Inquisitor S.
03-03-2009, 12:48
In RT, the Ultramarines were a successor chapter. To the Rainbow Warriors no less.

You might want to re-check that and be so kind to give the page number, thank you. Would save me a bit of searching when I get home and check my copy of RT...

Poseidal
03-03-2009, 12:54
You might want to re-check that and be so kind to give the page number, thank you. Would save me a bit of searching when I get home and check my copy of RT...
I'm not too sure of it myself, come to think of it. I'll check in all the compendium when I get back, but I think it was something like "Rainbow Warriors -> All 'colour' chapters"; "Someone -> All 'angel' chapters" etc.

Of course, the Horus Heresy didn't exist back then...

Inquisitor S.
03-03-2009, 13:08
I'm not even sure there was any talk of succesors at that time (in the RT book), but I'll also check the yellow and red books.

Vyperchild
03-03-2009, 13:09
I never really understood why there was such a large fanbase for ultramarines as compared to, say, salamanders, beyond the fact that ultramarines get far more publicity.

However, I must say that the shiny blue and gold ultramarines from battle for macragge made me like them a lot more. Although they're still not a chapter i'd play.

Captain Micha
03-03-2009, 13:19
Because Blue is such an attractive Color.

And everyone likes gold.

And GW shoves them down your throat more readily than Stargate tried to push Carter and O'Neil's bad zero chemistry relationship.

Poseidal
03-03-2009, 13:31
I'm not even sure there was any talk of succesors at that time (in the RT book), but I'll also check the yellow and red books.

Hmm, so far the earliest article I've found only says 'there are only seven founding chapters still around' and they were founded in around 13,000. None of them are named unfortunately.

I might have been confusing it as the Rainbow Warriors were one of the main chapters in RT.

I swear the Ultras were only chapter #66 back then though, in some really early WD article.

Apparently, the Mentor Legion were a big thing back then and wore Dark Angels Green too.

Hellgore
03-03-2009, 13:38
Generally they are hated!

I collect them because:
1) nice colour scheme (Im talking the darker varient of them)
2) nice background (older fluff. The new stuff is way OTT)
3) I really like the whole romen/greek thing they got going on
4) the marneus Calgar model is freaking beautiful
5) i likethe whole good guys approach too.

Sic.
I like/play them probably because so many make fun of/despise them.

I even like the new fluff and why not have some superhero on the human side? All the other factions get their own, so why not the UM?
Well, doesn't matter in the end cause after all THIS IS A GAME WITH TOYSOLDIERS!!!

AndrewGPaul
03-03-2009, 13:55
I might have been confusing it as the Rainbow Warriors were one of the main chapters in RT.

not really. Their appearance is limited to 1 Rainbow Warrior on the 2-page spread of Marine colour schemes*, and a full-page pic of one getting shot by a Battle Sister, near the back. There was no text written about them.

*Which also featured the Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers, Iron Hands and Silver Skulls.

If anything, the "main chapters" in Rogue Trader were the Crimson Fists (who featured in the scenario) or the Space Wolves (who got a 2-page spread of their chapter fortress on Lucan, and a full-page portrait of their Primarch). The Space Wolves were also the first Chapter to get an army list of their very own, as opposed to the generic Space Marines list.

The Ultramarines thing took off with the release of the first metal Tactical Squad box set; from then on, all the box art for generic Space Marines stuff (with the exception of the Predator Annihilator) was painted in Ultramarines colours. Probably because they were painted in blue, red and yellow, and looked quite striking.

Poseidal
03-03-2009, 14:03
not really. Their appearance is limited to 1 Rainbow Warrior on the 2-page spread of Marine colour schemes*, and a full-page pic of one getting shot by a Battle Sister, near the back. There was no text written about them.
Hey! that one colour sample and the one getting shot are a lot more than some of the others got back then.

Bellygrub
03-03-2009, 14:17
In ten years I don't remember ever seeing an Ultramarines army on the table outside of Gamesday and GW's own armies. I personally think the blue, gold and white is a nice color scheme.

Majority of armies I see are black or red. Black or Red. Black or Red.

Bloodknight
03-03-2009, 14:55
Do people even play Ultramarines? I've seen exactly one army of them in my gaming career and that was one of my buddies 12 years ago in 2nd edition...

tuebor
03-03-2009, 14:58
I like the Ultramarines color scheme well enough. The only thing I can't stand about them is the name "Ultramarines". Oh, and the fact they live in "Ultramar". So painful.

Somerandomidiot
03-03-2009, 15:34
I like the Ultramarines color scheme well enough. The only thing I can't stand about them is the name "Ultramarines". Oh, and the fact they live in "Ultramar". So painful.

Ironically, the term "Ultramarines" is actually thanks to the color of their armor, which is ultramarine blue (yes, the color existed before 40k) and has nothing to do with whether they're the "ultra" marines.

*Note: I play Inquisition/Guard and own no marines aside from Deathwatch, no UM fanboy here*

Kburn
03-03-2009, 16:28
They're the stars of the SM codex i guess. Most like their stuff vanilla and plain, so they go for the chapter and codex that is the 'safest'.

Also, like many said, they're the heroes of the heroic space marines, so they're some sort of ultra-heroes

Their fluff also appeals to most, although I find it a bit bland.

Overall, I like their place in the 40k world, they're likable to most starters, most vets. I know like them because they've been the defining face of 40k for so long. Some hate them with a passion, but whatever is popular is bound to bring some hate along with it too, so its part of the package.

I play BA and tyranids. I paint my nid's victims as ultramarines, not so much because I hate them, but ironically, I actually like their paint scheme, and do not want to start a 2nd marine army....

ard boy stu
03-03-2009, 16:48
I very rarley chose an army for fluff cause I love to make my onw fluff for my armys

Frontier
03-03-2009, 16:52
I was never one to go with convention. I never had an interest in the Ultramarines scheme. I chose Iron Fists...mostly because I have never run into another player with them.

Tzen
03-03-2009, 17:04
I'm a chaos player at heart, but i love the story and the history of the ultramarines. My favourite chaos legion is the Word bearers, and I love the hatred between the word bearers and the ultramarines.

From a modelling point of view, I love painting their colour scheme. It's never been about the special characters or anything for me, i never play games using them and probably never will.

They are the archetypal awesome super heroes. Why not like them?

Ubermensch Commander
03-03-2009, 17:08
Ultramarines are the epitome of what it means to be a Space Marine. They are not suffering from a need to occasionaly frenzy because their primarch received an almighty bitchslap by Horus, they do not flog themselves in an almost slaaneshi mannner, they do wear robes and are already half chaos, and they do not have fleas or chase Rhinos while drinking copious amounts of ale.
That is why they appeal to some people.

Also, the Greco-Roman theme is quite cool. No, its not Space Vampires, Space Werewolves/Vikings, or Space Gregorian monks meets Spanish Inquisition. Its Space Greco-Roman and that works for folks.

There is this somewhat amusing belief Warseer has that everyone plays Ultramarines and that everyone who does is a young un.
At my shop and at the Bolter and Chainsword that is defintely not the case.

Of course, there is no way to get an accurate accounting with so small a survey group but that is what I have seen so I can only go with personal experience. If your store is overrun with young uns playing UM...well...bummer.

tuebor
03-03-2009, 17:45
Ironically, the term "Ultramarines" is actually thanks to the color of their armor, which is ultramarine blue (yes, the color existed before 40k) and has nothing to do with whether they're the "ultra" marines.

*Note: I play Inquisition/Guard and own no marines aside from Deathwatch, no UM fanboy here*

Yes, I'm aware that color existed before 40k, but I have a very hard time believing that it isn't a horrible, horrible pun.

That being said I have on several occasions been tempted to start a UM army, mainly because I like the color scheme and because so many people dislike them. The latter is largely why my Guardsmen are the Cadian 8th.

Hellfury
03-03-2009, 17:56
I have seen three smurf armies in my life.

I have seen 15+ BA armies, 15+ BT armies, 10+ DA armies, etc.

Smurfs aren't that popular at all, except for maybe the kids who hide their stuff at home to keep me from stomping on their smurfs.

Grazzy
03-03-2009, 17:58
kids who hide their stuff at home to keep me from stomping on their smurfs.

It is mainly kids with ultramarines. They see the blue marines on the front of every box and then paint up their models the same way.

Vaktathi
03-03-2009, 17:58
Do people even play Ultramarines? I've seen exactly one army of them in my gaming career and that was one of my buddies 12 years ago in 2nd edition...

I didn't used to see many, until a few months ago I'd only seen two or three. Since October I've seen at least one at every event I've been to (and typically with Vulkan leading them :mad:)

Cythus
03-03-2009, 18:03
Wow. If People like them because they are the epitome of what it means to be a Space Marine. How do I know that? Because GW tells me they do, and they made up the game and background.

I liked the ultramarines up to the point where GW realeased the fluff stating something along the line 'all other SM aspire to be like them'
I can't seem to like them as much any more.

That said, I always create my own chapter/regiment, as it means they are exactally how I want them, with the fluff I like, and the Emperor's Lions will always remeber the day they successfully purged the Ultramarine 5th company of the choas threat....;)

GeneralDisaster
03-03-2009, 18:19
Because of childish jealousy.

Don't get me wrong, I play WH and 'Crons, and I find that due to the Smurf's background and their overwhelming popularity, the other players hate them.

Grow up and move on.

Sureshot05
03-03-2009, 18:30
Macragge.

Or more seriously, in Rogue Trader they were the unit that grabbed my attention. Ever since then I've just kept adding to them. The part though that clinched it for me was one of the early WD i read (160!) with them landing in thunderhawks to claim an objective on the far side of the table (Space Marine - Epic). T

Background-wise, when 2nd Ed came along Macragge was one of the first bits of background that was fleshed out that I loved. The image of the 1st company being wiped out to a man and the tragic loss it was and the army became something great.

Brother Drakist
03-03-2009, 18:44
Ultramarines have a lot of established background, a nice color scheme, and are the Space Marine poster boys. If you have a problem with Ultramarines then you have a problem with Space Marines in general. Which is pretty sad given that people get so heated over a tabletop wargame with little plastic men painted Ultramarine blue.

kultz
03-03-2009, 18:50
Ultramarines.

Ultramarine coloured ultra space marines, ultimate defenders of humanity of the realm of Ultramar.

I wish I can afford to play them.

I wish people will play them.

I have yet to see an actual Ultramarine army.

When is the last time anyone saw an actual, painted, serious Ultramarine army?

There is so much hate around here, everyone citing that Ultramarines are EVERYWHERE and that they wouldn't want to be associated to little 12 year olds.

So, everyone goes for the "Unique, less popular, and DEFINITELY alternative" Blood angels, Dark angels, Space Marines of the "NOT ULTRAMARINES" chapter.

As far as I am aware of, Ultramarines are the least 'seriously' played army of all.

I respect people who actually play Ultramarines.

Znail
03-03-2009, 21:28
Ultramarines for the most part have the most special models made for them. They also have a paint scheme that is relatively easy to paint, and it looks good. It makes for a very striking looking army when fully painted.

Marneus Calgar and Honor Guard
Ultramarines Chaplain Cassius
Ultramarines Chief Librarian Tigurius
Ultramarines Captain Sicarius
Ultramarines Tyranic War Veterans 1
Ultramarines Tyranic War Veterans 2
Space Marine Scout Sergeant Telion
Space Marine Sergeant Chronus


Can you find any other space marine chapter with that many special characters or unique options available to them? I personally rather like the Ultras, I don't want an army of them, but they are a nice looking army.

Commander Dante
Chief Librarian Mephiston, The Lord of Death
Corbulo, Sanguinary High Priest
Brother-Captain Tycho
Chaplain Lemartes
Blood Angels Honor Guard
The Death Company
Death Company Chaplain
Furiouso Dreadnaught
Baal Predator

Space Wolves probobly also has more unique models.

Oh, and Dante outranks Calgar due to close to 1000 years of more experience so was in charge when they was both present for a campaign. So there you have some ammo to make the little snotlings at the local store cry :cool:

Vaktathi
03-03-2009, 22:09
I have yet to see an actual Ultramarine army.

When is the last time anyone saw an actual, painted, serious Ultramarine army?

Last weekend.

MrGiggles
03-03-2009, 23:15
Personally, I've seen Ultramarines in GW ads so much that they are the first chapter which comes to mind when I think of Space Marines. Now that I actually know something about the game, I'd likely choose another chapter were I building a Sparce Marine army (and that just because I think some of the other chapters are neater, not because there's anything really wrong with the Ultramarines). Even at that though, they've a descent colour scheme, some nice special characters and some beautiful models. They're easily as viable an army choice as any other chapter whether you're looking toward painting or gaming.

Doominator
03-03-2009, 23:19
I like Ultramarines for their Greek/Roman influences, bright blue uniform, goody-goody-good good guy position(which I like cuz I collect mainly evil armies), big time enemies to the tyranids and I think the new book has somehow hypnotized me in really liking them because more than half of it is about teh Ultras.:o

Industrial Propaganda
03-03-2009, 23:30
The blue colour scheme and the codex:ultramarines back in the 2nd edition (with the fluff about the wars against Behemoth & Kraken) make them very popular. And since then, they are the poster boys of the space marines codexii.

kamedake88
03-03-2009, 23:35
Simple really, well for me at least. The first army I came into contact with in 40k was my friend's 3rd ed Ultramarines. At the time he was doing up a Eldar army, so I got to use his in the few skirmishes we had. viola, I was hooked. So I guess Ultramarines have always had a special place in my heart and no matter how many I try to get away from them (and I've tried) I always go back. And as a Plus I am a Roman Empire fanatic and the Ultramarines take allot from the Romans

Valharik
03-03-2009, 23:58
Sorry, but i lolīd at the comments about the choices of ultramarines or any marine army based on their colors. Itīs like say i choose tyranids because they have the colour of prunes, which is my favourite frute... Considering you can paint your soldiers however you ******* want.

Arkondak
04-03-2009, 00:48
It was Crimson Fists (again) on the Codex cover.

My bad. I meant to say that they had the whole chapter layed out in actual models on one of the inside covers of the codex. They had the old landraiders and the old thunderhawks wih that army too.

It was indeed the crimson fists in a last stand situation on the front cover. very heroic.

Yautja
04-03-2009, 02:27
When people first start the hobby the Ultramarines are everywhere. The fluff on there chapter takes them through many major actions in the 40k timeline all the way up to present day, and they are always represented well. Thats not including the stuff from the Uriel Ventris novels. A simple paint scheme can have an army on the tabletop in no time. For many its there first army and most always have a soft spot for there first army.

That said I love my Blood Angels more.

tuebor
04-03-2009, 03:07
Sorry, but i lolīd at the comments about the choices of ultramarines or any marine army based on their colors. Itīs like say i choose tyranids because they have the colour of prunes, which is my favourite frute... Considering you can paint your soldiers however you ******* want.

It'd be like picking a particular hive fleet because you liked their colors, not Tyranids in general. Yeah, you can paint your toy soldiers whatever colors you want, it's just that GW has already come up with some rather nice schemes. I just saw the Brazen Claws for the first time today and I'm more tempted than ever to start a Marine army.

souljaking09
04-03-2009, 03:15
they have the most pics of them. they have assault on black reach. it is usually the first chapter people see. it was the first i saw when i played WH40K Squad Command. I like catachans better.:cool:

Vesica
04-03-2009, 03:55
Ultramarines have a nice and pleasant color scheme and a background that is non polarizing.

In other words other chapters al have flaws and quirks that some player like and other players dislike while Ultramarines are the classic good and noble guys and are non treathening enough to be liked by most.

To be honest I loved the color scheme and the iconography but now that they are led by the god of war and are what all marines aspire to be when they grow up I just cannot stand them :wtf:

Same here, i used to like them but since the new codex i have gone right off them.

Koryphaus
04-03-2009, 05:08
It was indeed the crimson fists in a last stand situation on the front cover. very heroic.

Gw wants you to think that they were fighting Orks on that cover, but really they were trying to fight off the Ultramarines, who were trying to take the Crimson Fists' spot in the limelight..:D

chrismp_123
04-03-2009, 05:50
I am lost...I wasnt aware that there was alot of Ultramarines players out there. I know 40K players in a few different states and I know of two different Ultramarine players and one of those works for GW:confused:.

I honestly didnt ever have anything against the ultras until the new codex. I just cant grasp the idea of Calgar stopping the blade of an avatar with his hand. Im really not even a Eldar fan and I think that is just crazy :eek:. Oh, and where it says that all other chapters want to be like the ultras really burns me up :mad:! I could just see a space wolf looking at himself in a mirror every morning saying, "I can be an Ultramarine, I AM an Ultramarine!" :D

Brucopeloso
04-03-2009, 08:48
Oh, and where it says that all other chapters want to be like the ultras really burns me up :mad:! I could just see a space wolf looking at himself in a mirror every morning saying, "I can be an Ultramarine, I AM an Ultramarine!" :D

Not to mention DA members of the inner cirle secretly wearing UM underwear under all those robes! :D

There was nothing wrong with UM but GW seriously overdid the background with the last codex.

In any case it's toy soldiers so UM hate is just part of the fun, a bit like football rivalries but without the hooligans. :D

samiens
04-03-2009, 11:06
The thing is that this is a very deliberate thing. Ultramarines weren't the big stars as the background became established- crimson fists on the cover of rogue trader, blood angels for 2nd edition, Space Hulk had the Deathwing supplement that grew a legion of DA fans (like me) and with the shift in background, most likely combined with some internal prejudices, Games workshop decided to make ultramarines the poster boys- even to the point of saying as much in at least one white dwarf article.

This had 2 knock on effects- firstly, it meant that the advertising stance- including box and cover art, was all about Ultramarines, as well as the fact that even in the release phase of other chapters half the new stuff had Ultras on the box. Secondly, the fluff and the rules reflected this shift- particularly in the range and abilities of Ultra special characters. Furthermore, their colour scheme is easy to paint with a great many step by step guides easily available- not to mention you're shown how to paint them in the last 2 starter sets. Its basically the effect of market saturation and all their advantages.

Their whiter than white background also helps as not everyone,particularly the young, identify with the gritty underbelly of most chapters- which frankly is a good thing as once you're miserable enough to identify with all the bad stuff out there its all downhill (that's a bit of a joke before people have a go- I just mean that tastes change and more multiplicitous motivations are popular as we get older in general)

fluffstalker
04-03-2009, 11:53
I dont like or dislike them. By their very nature as a user friendly starter army they have to be straight edge, and I guess that puts some people off.

However, if you put in the extra effort into them, theres no reason they cant be as awesome as a Black Templars or Blood Angel army. Their noble Greco-Roman influence is a great balance to the Medieveal Catholic Feel of the rest of the Imperial Forces.

Check out Apologist's awesome Pre-Heresy Ultramarines blog on WIP Sci Fi army blogs. It made me want to collect them, seriously.

a squig
04-03-2009, 12:21
Not to mention DA members of the inner cirle secretly wearing UM underwear under all those robes! :D

There was nothing wrong with UM but GW seriously overdid the background with the last codex.

In any case it's toy soldiers so UM hate is just part of the fun, a bit like football rivalries but without the hooligans. :D


You wouldnt say that if you saw some ultramarine hooligans around here runnning around threating people with powerfists if you ***** slap his calgar .:evilgrin:

Inquisitor S.
04-03-2009, 12:28
You wouldnt say that if you saw some ultramarine hooligans around here runnning around threating people with powerfists if you ***** slap his calgar .

Yeah, thank god we only have the pointy-eared whiny kind of hooligan here.

Mercer
04-03-2009, 13:02
I used to like Ultramarines, will still do but not as much as I used to due to the rich background and with them being the goodest of the good guys. Also I wanted Marneus Calgar as a special character.

Now I've started Imperial Fists (which I've been told are just as good as UM's) I can hardly find much background. As they are just as noble etc etc they I would have thought they'd have more background, especially in the new codex as they are a foundnig chapter. I can see why people call it codex: UM but that is only due to the background being mostly Ultramarines.

I've now since gone off them and prefer the yellow paint scheme any way. I might be converting them into a lesser first company force and using the left overs for crimson fists :)

Freakiq
04-03-2009, 13:49
There was nothing wrong with UM but GW seriously overdid the background with the last codex.


Ultramarine propaganda, their pride will take them down the route of the Emperors Children, they too were THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST.

And see were that led them...

Karnstein
04-03-2009, 14:13
Where will their pride lead them? ...

...to tango-dancing!

Honestly, I don't hate SM...because hating painted toy soldiers is quite silly. But I'm bored of them... their "holier than you is" style...and the posterboy status are boring. There are so many chapters out there, but GW don't use that potential...no background like UMs have, no pictures of their patterns outside of the SM dex.

Well, back in ed3 we had BT... and the GW stores were full of badly painted BT armies, played by 12-14 years old kits, who only played them because the local redshirts said "play BT, they are 1337 and easy to paint" ...guess the "posterboy of the edition" is more a curse than a blessing...^^

nexus_six
04-03-2009, 14:46
Blue is a very forgiving, well-covering colour that paints very easily and quickly.

What it comes down to is that I want a good-looking army on the tabletop in a halfway reasonable period of time. Ultramarines allow to do that.

In comparison, I've always felt that there was a slightly masochistic dimension to pre-Mechrite Red Blood Angels armies ;)

TimLeeson
04-03-2009, 14:57
I dont hate em like most do, but I dont really like em either, they seem too mary-sue ish to me which make them pretty boring IMO, I find weakness to be as important as strength and at least from reading the new SM dex they seem too perfect which aint my cup of tea. Maybe they are more appealing to kids or something ?

Bellygrub
04-03-2009, 15:15
"Kids" always seem to be drawn more towards Dark Angels in my experience.


Since this thread started I've come to realize that actual on the table Ultra armies are quite rare. Kinda funny that the poster boy army may be one of the rarer armies out there. I know what chapter my Black Reach boys are going to end up as now! :eek:

Poseidal
04-03-2009, 15:20
"Kids" always seem to be drawn more towards Dark Angels in my experience.


Since this thread started I've come to realize that actual on the table Ultra armies are quite rare. Kinda funny that the poster boy army may be one of the rarer armies out there. I know what chapter my Black Reach boys are going to end up as now!
They're only rare in terms of Warseer members who answered this thread. Not representative of the wider market.

Brucopeloso
04-03-2009, 15:37
They're only rare in terms of Warseer members who answered this thread. Not representative of the wider market.

Maybe but in 5 years of gaming in the UK I only remeber seeing a single ultramarine army (I mean fully painted coherent army).

I have seen a lot of models painted as Ultramarines though....

Znail
04-03-2009, 15:45
Very true. Some new player painting a single tac squad blue doesnt make it an army. It takes a while and for a kid decent amount of alowance to make an army so there is plenty of time to change before its done.

Ubermensch Commander
04-03-2009, 16:13
@ Karnstein
Oh thank goodness! It wasnt only at my store that alot of young uns (to fair I was a young un as well) played BA or BT just because they were easy to play!

Hehe, I still remember the tears when "rhino rush" went away. It never even occured to them to adjust tactics...since the Rhino trick was the bread and butter of their 3rd edition BA armies.

W0lf
04-03-2009, 16:30
Its all down to the little kids that play 40K and think you have to paint the models 'the same as on the box'.

If the box marines where done in yellow every little kid would play IF. Its that simple tbh. I cant count the amount of times ive heard some dumbass 12 yr old tell someone they 'have' to paint models as they appear in the box art.

Far Seer
05-03-2009, 04:56
u may think i'm strange but... i think calgar looks wierd, i don't really like the way how he looks, i ca'nt explain it, but whenever i look at the model, i feel a spasm of anger at calgar, he's very good though, two powerfists!

Bork
05-03-2009, 12:04
Its all down to the little kids that play 40K and think you have to paint the models 'the same as on the box'.

I think this is a big reason, many people tend to assemble and paint at least their first armies 'by the box'. Then when you are feeling more confident in your abilities you start improvising more.
I think the first model I ever painted was an ultra marine, from the 2nd ed box set, the second was a blood angel (both for the same squad of course :)).

Fun fact; I know two people besides me who play marines. Both own one army. One started in 2nd and plays ultras, the other started in rt and painted his as crimson fists.

Korras
05-03-2009, 12:28
I know one who plays Ultramarines.. and he started just before I did in 2nd edition. he still has a collection of old Rhino's around. me, I got rid of those. I much preferred the new rhino.

no RT marines, though. but a LOT of old 2nd edition plastic marines. yes, those two-part ugly things. I got rid of those, too.

and he still plays only Ultramarines. I guess they stuck on him. :p

Frontier
05-03-2009, 13:55
Dunno why so many like the Ultramarines. It might be the fleshed out background. The over the top nature of their fluff in the 5th ed codex? Who knows?

I play Iron Fists. There really isn't a darn thing out there about them, and their paint scheme kicks all kinds of butt.

captainramoz
05-03-2009, 14:11
I like much more imperial fist but they are really scrwed by the ultras and templars.
When i was 12 iīll also have liked ultras but i feel i belong to the fists iīm also a zealot.

Fluxeor
05-03-2009, 15:38
I've played Ultras since AoBR was released, RT I had a small force of marines painted in colours that would later become the Death Company but nothing more than a couple of squads, 2nd Edit i shifted between Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Ultramarines and Dark Angels (3-4 squads of each, and the 2nd edit plastic 3-parts from the boxed game sat unpainted and unused till 5th Edit launched :P), before finally settling on a Khorne themed Chaos force. 3rd and 4th edits i kinda drifted away from the hobby and came back for 5th.

Why do i collect Ultras now?, The colour scheme appeals to me more than any other aspect and having a decent number of named chars and models with icons (Nid Hunters, Calgar's Honour Guard being some of the best space marine models available in my opinion, obviously alongside the Vanguard Vets). I use my own take on the colour scheme though, rather than Mordian Blue with highlights, i go for Ultramarines Blue (on a black undercoat) with a coat of asurmen blue wash before any other colours are added, the resulting blue colour is just sex for the eyes and 2nd company gold trim stands out brilliantly!!

jsullivanlaw
05-03-2009, 20:49
I like the Ultramarines color scheme well enough. The only thing I can't stand about them is the name "Ultramarines". Oh, and the fact they live in "Ultramar". So painful.

Nah, the name is the only thing i like about them. They are named after the colour of their armor!!! The kids probably don't even know that the color ultramarine exists and probably play cause the name sounds hardcore. I don't hate the ultramarines anymore than i hate any other space marine chapter. Marines often come across as too goody goody which i'm not a fan of, but then again since i play dark eldar maybe i'm just a sucker for the villains.

Orkeosaurus
05-03-2009, 21:52
I like the Ultramarines color scheme well enough. The only thing I can't stand about them is the name "Ultramarines". Oh, and the fact they live in "Ultramar". So painful.There are other bad ones too.

"Hey guys! My name is "Iron Hands", leader of the Iron Hands! Guess what material my hands are made out of?"

Poseidal
05-03-2009, 22:04
"Hey guys! My name is "Iron Hands", leader of the Iron Hands! Guess what material my hands are made out of?"
Is it Ceramite?

Blinder
05-03-2009, 22:04
I've known a few people who've played Ultras-

3rd ed, several of us had already been playing for a couple years and another buddy of ours started. Quickest way to not feel left out by having the only half-assembled unpainted force on the table? A bunch of easy to get, easy to assemble (he didn't buy any speeders aside from the one in the box) marine units and a can of blue spray-paint. Throw in an easy learning curve and... Ultras!

Around the same time, my brother (ha-ha! around 12 I think he was) wanted to be able to play (10 years between us so it was good that he was *finally* almost able to "play too" where "play too" didn't mean "smash to bits"). Again, economy + relatively simple painting + codex was geared towards 'em = Ultras.

At the gaming shop, the "kids" generally form(ed- though I think there's a new batch forming, but that's good IMO) 3 groups- the younger ones and those who just wanted to have some fun tended towards marines of a suspiciously blue coloration, the older/more "competitive" (to be nice) ones used to lean towards Templar, and then you had the occasional standout who did something completely different (like really well-played orks, or just a different philsophy behind the marines they had). So, plenty of Ultras, especially now that you can't say "HELL no!" to plunking Calgar down.

Basically, easy to get, easy to paint. Toss in that they're either on everything marine, or pretty easily mistaken for whatever *is* on there (like the 3rd ed Fists codex cover if you're just looking at a wall of blue) and you get an army that's very popular but with a player base that isn't always going to be posting on internet forums.

On the downside, they do tend to be played more often than not by younger/newer players in probably most of our personal experiences if we've seen them a lot. In many cases, these younger/newer players don't mix so well with the "young adult" players and can try the patience of the older players (who are sick of spending most of the game helping the OTHER player through their turns 9 times out of 10) and you get a lot of momentum for backlash, hence the UM hate.

Personally, I just like a darker shade of blue, and would never be able to admit that my band of 10-foot-tall genetically-enhanced badasses go home to... Ultramar... because they're the Ultramarines... I can buy the whole "that's our color so that's our name" thing, it works for the Crimson Fists, White Scars, etc. so why not Ultramarine...marines... but Ultramar... just, no.

tuebor
05-03-2009, 22:15
Nah, the name is the only thing i like about them. They are named after the colour of their armor!!! The kids probably don't even know that the color ultramarine exists and probably play cause the name sounds hardcore.

Again, I have a very hard time that GW designers didn't intend a pun when naming the Ultramarines. There's probably a reason we have the Ultramarine chapter and not the Perriwinkle chapter.


Marines often come across as too goody goody which i'm not a fan of, but then again since i play dark eldar maybe i'm just a sucker for the villains.

Yeah, I prefer the "Angels of Death" view of Marines, where they'd kill suspect populations and other such "not nice" things. But then, I prefer my 40k to be grim, dark and grimdark.


There are other bad ones too.

"Hey guys! My name is "Iron Hands", leader of the Iron Hands! Guess what material my hands are made out of?"

Yeah, also bad. Note that while the silly puns may pain me they wouldn't keep me from playing an army.

AndrewGPaul
06-03-2009, 21:32
Ironically, the term "Ultramarines" is actually thanks to the color of their armor, which is ultramarine blue (yes, the color existed before 40k) and has nothing to do with whether they're the "ultra" marines.

*Note: I play Inquisition/Guard and own no marines aside from Deathwatch, no UM fanboy here*

And 'Ultramar' is presumably a reference to the Crusader states of Outremer (the modern-day Mediterranean Middle East), which is French for "over the sea".

AndrewGPaul
06-03-2009, 21:37
Yes, I'm aware that color existed before 40k, but I have a very hard time believing that it isn't a horrible, horrible pun.


And? 40K is built on horrible, horrible puns* and other bad jokes. You'd better get used to it. :)

* Among them, Primarch names Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius, Corax, Alpharius and Mortarion,

Karnstein
06-03-2009, 21:53
And 'Ultramar' is presumably a reference to the Crusader states of Outremer (the modern-day Mediterranean Middle East), which is French for "over the sea".

French and over the sea? more dancing marines in armour. :p Well, I'm waiting for the day, where someone posts a MCalgar conversion with a Nicolas Sarkozy or Gérard Depardieu head. :D

And yeah, most of the names are horrible... DA and their primarch are named after a homosexual british poet/his famous poem and the chapter has a dark secret...well, pun intended?

Captain Frankus
06-03-2009, 22:45
I was actually in the beginning one of those 12 year old children:eek:. Then I actually read the backround, and I started to like them! They have this against all odds kinda feel, but i change my Ultramarines to the Third company, because I like the idea of being "The Scourge of Xenos." And I DO NOT run Calgar.
(On a side note, I don't think that the stories are that crazy)

Marshal Sinclair
06-03-2009, 22:48
People like them because they are the epitome of what it means to be a Space Marine.

I actually believe the Flesh Tearers are a lot closer to the epitome of what it means to be a Space Marine.

Koryphaus
06-03-2009, 22:57
No, the Flesh Tearers are closer to what it used to mean to be a Space Marine.

captainramoz
09-03-2009, 15:04
Also, the Greco-Roman theme is quite cool. No, its not Space Vampires, Space Werewolves/Vikings, or Space Gregorian monks meets Spanish Inquisition. Its Space Greco-Roman and that works for folks.


Dark angels are jewish/arabish monks and they suck i mean who cares if 5 companys turned chaos nobody knows and who cares entire ultras descendant chapters turned chaos and ultras have no complex thats why they rule.




If the box marines where done in yellow every little kid would play IF.
Oray may be impis would finally get some love:D

Lorieth
09-03-2009, 16:57
"Hey guys! My name is "Iron Hands", leader of the Iron Hands! Guess what material my hands are made out of?"

Necrodermis? :angel:

There are 5 others in my gaming group:

1 Ultramarines
2 Ultramarines
3 Ultramarines (and a few Orks)
4 Tyranids (and a few Orks)
5 Tyranids

... and me with Eldar. I'm trying to convince at least one of the UM players to change to something else, even another codex chapter, but no joy so far. My Craftworld has obviously done something to personally offend Calgar...

I think the ultramarines have just become the default chapter. Let's face it, they are *the* codex chapter, so if you're planning a codex marine force that's where you start.

AndrewGPaul
09-03-2009, 17:17
[QUOTE=captainramoz;3359304]Dark angels are jewish/arabish monks [QUOTE]

Huh? No. They're medieval Templars, with a strange hint of Native American.

IncrediSteve
09-03-2009, 18:06
This is a plain and simple internet Myth. I have played 40k for 9 years now, and admittedly though I've "only" gamed at 8 different stores in 4 different states in that time, I have only actually encountered one* other Ultramarine's player.

I started 40k by buying that neat old $25 paint set that came with 9 colors, a brush, and a combat squad of 5 2nd Edition marines (4 bolters and either a sergeant, missile launcher, or flamer) and tried painting up several different schemes. Blue with red shoulder trim looked the best, and so it was settled. As I learned what Chapters and Companies were, I discovered that this scheme was the Ultramarines 3rd company, felt like a good fit. The ugly yellow-padded company were the ones on the box, and everyone in the stores was playing Black Templars and Angels and Space Wolves, with the occasional Salamander. So in all irony I was actually being more unique than these high-horsed "rare" chapters.

Edit: I see Captain Frankus shares my view. Oh no, two of us on the same page! Guess now Red is the new Gold and 3 is the new 2, and we're going to be ridiculed as "just a different shade of poster boy".

I'm often mistaken for being Crimson Fists, and anytime I say I'm Ultramarines I get boos and sneers, until I take them out and reveal that I've got the best painted army in the store, and then mood tends to change, and people admit they're pretty cool, and that "hey wait a minute, I've never actually seen an Ultramarine army before".

Yes, the newly pumped up fluff is so over-the-top it's sickening, and it;s a little insulting to see my chapter of favor worked over by a rampant fanboi, and the sick new characters means that now there may actually be a small influx of "ultramarines" players. Though I suspect there will be no more of these than there will be the influx of Salamanders we've seen most prominently, or other chapters. And even then, I'm of the mind that only playing for rules does not make you a player of that chapter. Unless you've gone off and painted them and actively proclaim to be an Ultramarine [or other chapter], it's earnestly just more unpainted marines and who cares what chapter you're claiming to be this particular afternoon.


*= This one player was new, a poor youngster with only a few units painted blue, and being bullied by an Iyanden Eldar army with eighteen starcannons. It was sad, his 1 remaining tac squad and razorback were cowering behind a building, just trying to stay hidden long enough for him to survive and contest a single table quarter.

captainramoz
12-03-2009, 15:07
[QUOTE=captainramoz;3359304]Dark angels are jewish/arabish monks [QUOTE]

Huh? No. They're medieval Templars, with a strange hint of Native American.
nah that sounds more for impis good idea maibe i should try that .
But their names are ultra arabish (azrael arabian angel of death sammael angel of condenation and ezequiel) too arabish and pretty much old byble references of sim i guess they should change lions name to david or moises:rolleyes:

Dr.Clock
12-03-2009, 17:36
Captain:

I understand that you are from Argentina and hence likely have english as a second language?

For the record, the correct word is 'arabic', not arabish.

Also, the names you refer to are not solely associated with Islam. All trace their roots to Judaism - just as Chirstianity and Islam in general do.

If one looks at the robes in particular, as a VISUAL hallmark of the Dark Angels, I think that the 'flavour' of them is much closer to Christian monks... there is very little to link them to Islamic, or Middle Eastern, traditions in particular.

More than this, as I think your point about their names is relevant, the angelic symbolism of the chapter cannot be disputed. While Blood Angels have their winged Primarch, the Dark Angels rely on more subtle imagery: the winged helms, characters named for archangels, nemesis in the "Fallen".

By 'impis', I assume you mean Imperial Fists? Their successors, the Black Templars, are obviously taken from the medieval Templars. Still... it is important to note that Chapters make use of more archetypes than specific people, organizations or cultures.

Hence, Dark Angels personify "Warrior-Monks", while Templars are closer to "Medieval Knights"

Ultramarines, for that matter, personify the martial code of the Roman Legion. They are the stewards of an empire and rely on strict organization, tried and true tactics and overwhelming force to win the day.

So many people like Ultramarines because they are cool. They are perhaps the most noble, self-effacing chapters to my mind. They epitomize MARINES - full stop. Everyone else has marines of some other flavour. This flavour is always predicated on the base note of Ultramarines; that is, how they DIFFER from Ultramarines. Look at it this way: what would 40k be WITHOUT the Ultramarines. They inform so much of the fluff that without them it would lack coherency.

If you like marines in general, you should like Ultramarines.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Poseidal
12-03-2009, 17:46
They epitomize MARINES - full stop. Everyone else has marines of some other flavour. This flavour is always predicated on the base note of Ultramarines; that is, how they DIFFER from Ultramarines. Look at it this way: what would 40k be WITHOUT the Ultramarines. They inform so much of the fluff that without them it would lack coherency.

If you like marines in general, you should like Ultramarines.
Replace Ultramarines with CRIMSON FISTS (in capitals) and it would be better. Ultras stole their thunder(hawk gunship). :(

But the Ultramarine's rise from third founding chapter and Roboute Guillaman being definately dead (they had his bones on their homeworld) to a 1st founding with a not quite dead founder as always bemused me.

bobbles
12-03-2009, 21:40
I'm sorry doctor clock it turns out your were entirley right and the guys problems strech further than a poor stanard of english

Dr.Clock
13-03-2009, 00:58
okaaaaaay... his english is poor (don't take it personally... I only know one language - you're miles ahead of me)

... I assumed 'arabish' referred to 'arabic' and, more specifically, the use of names consistent with those found in Hebrew and Christian mysticism.

I was deliberately trying to sort out the confusion while NOT referring to archangel names as 'arabic'... they aren't (exclusively)... they are associated with (among other things) Islam whose LANGUAGE is Arabic.

Maybe something was lost in translation - I am at a loss to determine what 'arabish' means and proceeded on the assumption that it implied 'arabic. I did not mean to assert that all Arabs are Muslim. This is not the case. Yet, it seemed that the poster in question was implying that those names are not Judeo-Christian in origin in order to distance the Dark Angels in particular from European traditions. I think this is a mistaken line of reasoning.

The names are of angels, the chapter is named 'Dark Angels'. Hence, the chapter takes names of angels... their traditions and look are closer to those of Christian monks than to 'arabish' or Jewish traditions or garb.

This debate may easily be avoided if one simply focusses instead on the pertinent symbol of 'angel' which may be applied to Islam, Judaism or Christianity with equal ease.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

blameless
13-03-2009, 02:59
They are the most popular because they are the most popular colour!

Try this test!

Ask a large room full of people (ie 50+) to close their eyes (as not to be lead by others) ask them to put their hands up when you call out their favourite colour.

Call out the main colours and you will find the majority LIKE BLUE!!! :eek:

Sounds crazy but iv seen it done again and again... something to do with our primal love of the sea/sky ect...

So its human phsyc that dictates the popularity of the Ultra's coupled with the promo/flagship advertising of GW.

That said Im the only Ultra player that I know :cries:

And yes my favourite colour is blue :D

Tyruin son of Ages
13-03-2009, 08:07
I think personally that the ultramarines are the most cliqued chapter in history, and i think that theyre rather bland. So what if they fought some Tyranids and they're founder was like the starter of the Codex Astartes, i think chapters like the Iron hands and the Salamanders have much more flavour to them.
Blue marines are boreing and are also given a bad name by all the noobs who start with them.

captainramoz
13-03-2009, 13:19
Commander Dante
Chief Librarian Mephiston, The Lord of Death
Corbulo, Sanguinary High Priest
Brother-Captain Tycho
Chaplain Lemartes
Blood Angels Honor Guard
The Death Company
Death Company Chaplain
Furiouso Dreadnaught
Baal Predator

Space Wolves probobly also has more unique models.

Oh, and Dante outranks Calgar due to close to 1000 years of more experience so was in charge when they was both present for a campaign. So there you have some ammo to make the little snotlings at the local store cry :cool:

I think that special carachters and signature units ainīt the same so marine have Calgar,
Cato,Ortan,TIgurius Chronus Invictus and Helveticus
And the blood angels Dante Mephiston Lemartes Corbulo and Tycho(I donīt consider moriar or the death company itself)
the ultras still win.


Captain:

I understand that you are from Argentina and hence likely have english as a second language?

For the record, the correct word is 'arabic', not arabish.

Also, the names you refer to are not solely associated with Islam. All trace their roots to Judaism - just as Chirstianity and Islam in general do.

If one looks at the robes in particular, as a VISUAL hallmark of the Dark Angels, I think that the 'flavour' of them is much closer to Christian monks... there is very little to link them to Islamic, or Middle Eastern, traditions in particular.

More than this, as I think your point about their names is relevant, the angelic symbolism of the chapter cannot be disputed. While Blood Angels have their winged Primarch, the Dark Angels rely on more subtle imagery: the winged helms, characters named for archangels, nemesis in the "Fallen".

By 'impis', I assume you mean Imperial Fists? Their successors, the Black Templars, are obviously taken from the medieval Templars. Still... it is important to note that Chapters make use of more archetypes than specific people, organizations or cultures.

Hence, Dark Angels personify "Warrior-Monks", while Templars are closer to "Medieval Knights"

Ultramarines, for that matter, personify the martial code of the Roman Legion. They are the stewards of an empire and rely on strict organization, tried and true tactics and overwhelming force to win the day.

So many people like Ultramarines because they are cool. They are perhaps the most noble, self-effacing chapters to my mind. They epitomize MARINES - full stop. Everyone else has marines of some other flavour. This flavour is always predicated on the base note of Ultramarines; that is, how they DIFFER from Ultramarines. Look at it this way: what would 40k be WITHOUT the Ultramarines. They inform so much of the fluff that without them it would lack coherency.

If you like marines in general, you should like Ultramarines.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Cheers guys still iīm exeptionally good at english i got a nine yesterday in an oral and i have aproved with honours every international exam.
The dark angels take a lot from the arabic if u know history the arabish didnīt draw the face of mahoma just like the dark angels donīt draw faces in their iconography.
Also i think jewish( or at least ortodhox ones) are way more sim and forgivenes obsesed than christians(I speak from experience since i was raised in a german convent christian school and i go to the church every sunday since i was nine years old now Iīm fifteen).
I think ultras are obviously greco-roman their iconography is the greek letter ultra too obvious and their primarch name(Roboute) is an obvious pastiche of Romulo
founder of Rome. And Calgars name is drawn from Caesar(cayus caesar) and Augustus.
Impressive that tigurius isnīt named Platon Aristotelus.
Impis are a little harder to describe because they have some knightly attitude but are not exactly templars. Some great builders and stoic but they arenīt dwarves. Some strong brotherhood bonds but thatīs not enough for a culture so they are very conflictive for a codex.
Personally i think somebody i follow two things when choosing and army:first how flashy their colour scheme is; second that i could identify with them thatīs why im still deliverating.:cries:


He did'nt mention islam

For me arabic=islam:rolleyes:
now you understand
bobbles you wrote stanard instead of standard so your english is worst than mine.
mine looks poor cause I never check what I wrote. Then I edit like 4 times or so.