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Elannion
09-12-2005, 12:23
What i really hope for the new edition is they change that blasted name, i dunno its just something about it makes them sound sooo childish and sad. Sorry i just had to say it.

Insane Alex
09-12-2005, 12:32
Hm, no. I think its simplistic and in its way mature. Take Elven names for example. They try to contain as many vowels as possible and just become confusing to say (not as confusing as Lizardmen names, though.;) )
I think the simplistic and straight forward name just helps define the army well. They are, after all, Lizardmen.

Elannion
09-12-2005, 12:41
yeah but skaven aren't called ratmen i dunno it just seems to me less adult i dunno like something or some annoying cartoon. I would be more willing to say to non warhammery people i collected elves than lizardmen just it sounds abit more adult. I dunno i just don't think it fits in too well with the world built up like you have bretonnia, empire, tomb kings, vampire counts and then you have lizardmen it just seems not refined enough just too simplistic and like they havent put any thought into it whatsoever.

Insane Alex
09-12-2005, 12:46
O f course, alking about "adult" in a land where Goblins launch themselves into the sky and... oh wait. Yeah you got a point. I think Lizardmen, as I said, is an easily recognisable name and often draws new people in.
"What are Skaven?"
"Well, they're these rat people."
"I'm liking the look of those Lizardmen, though."
"How about Khemri?"
"What?"

Actually, just about evry army BUT Lizardmen has an easily recognisable and placable name. Elves, Empire, Undead, Orcs...

SuperBeast
09-12-2005, 13:00
They're called 'Lizardmen' because they're supposed to have a more 'alien' feel to them from a human's point of view than the other races.

Also, Elves aren't called "Asur" or "Druchii" on the army list book - it's the human viewpoint name rather than the races own name where the two differ.
Besides, who's going to buy "WFB:Servants of the Old Ones"?

Morph
09-12-2005, 14:46
Bit of a D&D throwback, Lizardmen have existed since Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. Those days a Lizardman was one creature (the phrase wasn't used to cover a variety of creatures like it is now). It looked a bit like a Saurus does now, but a bit thinner. I think they were evil back then. At some point they became the servants of the Slann, since really no-one cared about them. The Lizardman became the whole army.

I can see the point of this thread - it's a bit silly sounding, but I'm used to it now and I fear change.

Socialist
25-03-2006, 06:54
What i really hope for the new edition is they change that blasted name, i dunno its just something about it makes them sound sooo childish and sad. Sorry i just had to say it.


what there's a new addition to lizzies coming out!!!!!!!<shock> I kind of lost touch with the game after I lost most of my army. But thats awesome, a new addition....weeeeeeeeee....

StarFyre
25-03-2006, 06:59
no new lizardmen armybook..not for a while....

Sanjay

macbeth
25-03-2006, 10:06
Lizardmen are a classical feature of fantasy settings. Look at the "Fighting Fantasy" books. There were two of them featuring "lizardmen".

sigur
25-03-2006, 12:00
Warhammer shouldn't try to be "adult" (as well as overly "grim and dark" by the way:rolleyes: ); it was always cheesy and that's what makes a part of it's charm. If you want dead serious games, go play Vampires or LotR.

Elannion
25-03-2006, 22:55
wow this is an old thread, nah i know its meant to be cheesy in some places i just think its abit of a 'sad' name. I think i said before to people not in the hobby i think its one of those things that makes things look even worse when your trying to explain about playing with plastic toy soldiors to them.

mousekiller
26-03-2006, 01:38
I agree. If the skaven get there own name, then so should the Lizardmen. Besides, the root of the army are the slann, who are frog people from some far away place...

mageith
26-03-2006, 02:49
What i really hope for the new edition is they change that blasted name, i dunno its just something about it makes them sound sooo childish and sad. Sorry i just had to say it.
I agree. It's the 'men' part.

And no they aren't Lizard'men'. The Slann especially is not a Lizard nor a man.

The members of the group are:
Lizard-like: Saurus, Kroxigor, Cold ones, swarms. Skinks (but they really could be anything)
Amphibian-like: Salamander
Dinosaur-like: Terradons, Stegadon (Dinosaurs are now generally accepted to be more bird than anything else, I think.)
Alien: Slann (Frog or amphibian like), though other than their frogginess nothing else is amphibian like.

However, they are all spawned. Apparently sex is not involved. And no moms and dads.

Dinosaurs probably weren't cold-blooded.

Anyway, even though many look like lizards, they aren't lizards. They are aliens to earth/Old World. You'd think the wisest creatures on the Old World could come up with a name for themselves. Apparently they have better things to do.

Even "Lustrians" would be better.

Slann Mage Priest Ith

Trunks
26-03-2006, 06:52
Skinks are "amphibian-like". The name is even the name of an amphibian if I remember correctly (and most little lizardlike amphibians I've seen have similar heads to the skink models I suppose).

Goq Gar
26-03-2006, 07:00
...
Lizardmen is just a well known and accepted name now though, dont pick apart stuff because of "factual realities" or ill go Elven reproduction on your behind (coz technically its impossible!) :P

Lizard is an over generalized term to be true, but seriously, if we sit here and pick every little fact apart, we'll wind up talking about why on earth its even called Brettonnia, or how the elves came into existence if no record of the old ones creating them exists...

Imma_De_Freakin_Pope
26-03-2006, 07:22
im with you, i think lizardmen is a dumb name, like mageith said 'lustrians' is a very cool name

or call them fishmen....*shackes head*...dont ask why i said that

mageith
26-03-2006, 07:51
Skinks are "amphibian-like". The name is even the name of an amphibian if I remember correctly (and most little lizardlike amphibians I've seen have similar heads to the skink models I suppose).
:) I thought so too. Look it up. It's a lizard.

From wikipedia:

Skinks are the most diverse group of lizards. They make up the family Scincidae which shares the superfamily or infraorder Scincomorpha with several other lizard families, including Lacertidae (the "true" or wall lizards). Scincidae is the largest of the lizard families with about 1200 species.

Mage Ith

EffCee
26-03-2006, 07:53
Technically with them spawning they should really be called Amphibianmen, but that doesn't have the same ring to it.

Why couldn't they just have hatcheries instead of spawning pools!

mageith
26-03-2006, 07:56
Technically with them spawning they should really be called Amphibianmen, but that doesn't have the same ring to it.


The point is that they aren't 'men'. It's like something from Flash Gordon. GW can and should do better.

RGB
26-03-2006, 08:38
Lustrians ain't half bad.

But then there's the Southlands and the Dragon Isles.

sigur
26-03-2006, 13:17
...I think i said before to people not in the hobby i think its one of those things that makes things look even worse when your trying to explain about playing with plastic toy soldiors to them.

No offense, but if this is your main concern in the whole case, the problem definitly isn't the name GW chose for the Lizardmen.

@mageith: Their soldiers look like a mix of lizards and men. I couldn't think of a better term than "Lizardmen" for them really.

mageith
26-03-2006, 14:52
@mageith: Their soldiers look like a mix of lizards and men. I couldn't think of a better term than "Lizardmen" for them really.

That's just the point. The name of the race is from your (a human, dominant culture) point of view. Let's say you played High Elves and the name of your book was the High Pointy-ears. That's how they look to humans. When I was a kid and watched cavalry and Indians, the moviefolks had them refer to each other as "Palefaces" and "Redmen" when being disrespectful. Even the term "Indians" is a name from the dominating culture's point of view.

Perhaps this is just beating a dead horse (or a horse that never actually was alive), but its just too bad that the Lizards couldn't have named themselves. I believe that all ancient peoples have a name for themselves, in their own language and more often than not it means 'the people'.

I always call them just "The Lizards" and the beastmen "Beasts".
I also hate Elven Spearmen and call them SpearElves.

Two of the most alien races in the game are named after what humans call them: Beastmen and Lizardmen, rather than their own name (whatever it is). At least the Skaven and Orcs get to name themselves.

As RGB points out the other Lizards are also referred to by a human perspective: Southlands.

I play this game and love to get immersed in the context of the army. It's really just a feeling thing, but I think it's an opportunity that GW missed.

BTW, why is Lustria called Lustria? Anyone know?

IMO, either one gets it or they don't. If one plays the LizardMEN or BeastMEN and really gets immersed into that army's background, one is probably more likely to get it.

Mage Ith

Elannion
26-03-2006, 21:45
Sigur i am by no means worried what people thing, :P your talking to the guy who walks around with a mohawk and many piercings on his face. I just don't think its very dignified really, i don't think it fits in greatly, beastmen is similar but i think even that has abit of dignity to it. Just the lizardmen i dunno it seems to me that its something you would hear on jetex (sorry to those who don't have UK TV, its a station with things like power rangers on it, originally fox kids).

Also i don't think there are many referances in the fluff as lizardmen, they say stuff like lizard demons, lizard creatures or they have their own names for them.

cardboard_armour
26-03-2006, 22:19
They have individual names for the differant types of lizardmen
Saurus
Skinks
Kroxigor

I don't think Lizardmen would have a word for themselves as a singular body as they are not really a nation but merely custodians of an ancient legacy. They don't really make a home in Lustria it's more like their live-in workplace.

I think it's important for armies to have a vernacular name on the front as it makes it easier to know what you're getting into from the get-go. Army books called Asur, Druchii, Gor, Asrai and such would be pretty confusing. Skaven seem to be the only exception.

I bought a game the other day called Champions of Norrath Return to Arms, a sequel which boasted two new character classes, the Iksar Shaman and the Vah Shir Berserker.
It wasn't until I loaded up the game that I found out that Iksar and Vah Shir referred to Lizardmen and Catmen.
Says it all really.

Elannion
27-03-2006, 22:53
Well i do agree with you, however bretonnians, skaven, tomb kings, kislev, the empire don't really tell you what your taking. Obviously you need to know, i just think something better could be thought up.

ZomboCom
28-03-2006, 11:21
GW's biggest selling line is "Space Marines", which is an equally appauling name.

Goq Gar
28-03-2006, 11:48
if not worse... however, they could also have been called "starship troopers", "Space marines (oh wait)", "Universe Warriors", "Emperors Guard", Billboards (Seriously, its not long until a space marine chapter will replace its insignia with a giant yellow M). All of those names and more were suggested before Warhammer 40k was released...

der_lex
28-03-2006, 12:12
As a person who played pen and paper rpg's long before he started playing Warhammer, the name 'Lizardmen' conjures up nothing but good memories for me... It's as much of a fantasy classic as 'Orcs' or 'Elves', imo...