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Xynok
04-03-2009, 01:45
This is my first draft army list for my new skaven force, just wondering what the feedback might be and if anyone could suggest any changes.

Heroes

Chieftain - 45
w/ add hand weapon -4
Heavy armour - 4

Unit 53
Running total 53

Heroes 2

Warlock Engineer -45
w/ Warp-blades - 15
w/ Condenser -10
w/ Accumulator - 15

Unit: 85
Running total: 138

Core

25 Clanrats - 125
w/ spears - 25
w/ Ratling gun - 60
w/ Standard - 10
w/ Musician - 5

Unit: 225
Running total: 363

Core 2

25 Clanrats - 125
w/ Standard - 10
w/ Musician - 5

Unit: 140
Running total: 503

Core 3

25 Slaves - 50

Unit 50
Running 553

Core 4

25 Slaves - 50

Unit 50
Running 603

Core 5

2 Giant rat packs - 60

Unit: 60
Running total: 756

Special

24 Plague monks - 144
w/ add hand weapon - 48
Musician - 5
Standard bearer - 10
w/ Banner of the swarm - 20
Deacon - 10

Unit 205
Running total 900

Special 2

2 rat ogres - 100

Unit 100
Running total 1000

Wondering if it's worth dropping moulder units for some jezzails in case of heavy armour?
Are globadiers worth thinking about sticking behind my blocks and trowing into the fights?
Would it be worth using night runners (with slings perhaps) as charge blockers?

I'm just a bit concerned that the complete lack of range (1 ratling gun and warpfire spell) would mean that my troops get killed before anything has happened yet. It may be good for a core to build a larger army on though.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated. :)

Pulsks
04-03-2009, 01:56
I'd change the chieftain to a bsb, and give a warlock storm daemon.
I don't think you need a champion on the plague monks, depending where you put them.
Getting jezzails instead of ogres would be good.
The clan rats might just be good with hw+sh
and the slaves might just be good at 20.

Talk my advice with a pinch of salt, as I'm going off of how my friend fields his skaven.

Bum
04-03-2009, 01:58
Heroes

Chieftain - 45
w/ add hand weapon -4
Heavy armour - 4

Total preference, but if your going to give up the shield, you might as well get the Great Weapon. Str 4 really isn't going to crack most rank and file. Let alone anything with real armor.

Math hammer shows against a normal human with a 4+ save, GW will hit 2/3, would 2/2 and then leave no save.

Extra hand weapon will hit 3/4, wound 2/3 and then still leave a 5+ save.

Something to think about.

Unit 53
Running total 53

Heroes 2

Warlock Engineer -45
w/ Warp-blades - 15
w/ Condenser -10
w/ Accumulator - 15

Storm Daemon, yes its taken in every list, its effective and with only 1 lock its really worth it.

Also, drop the one that gives +1 powerdie, it will do nothing with one lock. You get 2 based, 1 for lvl 1, you can cast maximum of 3 dice. So the extra is wasted.

Unit: 85
Running total: 138

Core

25 Clanrats - 125
w/ spears - 25
w/ Ratling gun - 60
w/ Standard - 10
w/ Musician - 5

Unit: 225
Running total: 363

People will tell you to drop spears, I've used them and it comes in handy once in a while. Total preference though.

Core 2

25 Clanrats - 125
w/ Standard - 10
w/ Musician - 5

Unit: 140
Running total: 503

Solid (I prefer 30 model units at 2000+, but thats up to you when you get there

Core 3

25 Slaves - 50

Unit 50
Running 553

I prefer 20 man units, because they pretty much die in droves to anything. So I don't use them as anything but flankers, baiters, etc. and having 5 extra models to me isn't even worth the 10 points (or the painting)

Core 4

25 Slaves - 50

Unit 50
Running 603

Same as above

Core 5

2 Giant rat packs - 60


Sweet

Unit: 60
Running total: 756

Special

24 Plague monks - 144
w/ add hand weapon - 48
Musician - 5
Standard bearer - 10
w/ Banner of the swarm - 20
Deacon - 10

Get the warbanner, 5 more points, not situational.

Unit 205
Running total 900

Special 2

2 rat ogres - 100

As cool as the models are, I've found no use for them. and I use them constantly as I love the ideas behind them, and the I love the models. But they just aren't worth it. It's hard to swallow but they aren't. People who've played against them know causing panics is easy, and if you kill one pack no more flanking.

Keep if you want, I'm just warning they'll disappoint you 4/5 times in all the games I've played. Better replaced with some sensors, or a warp lighting cannon to kill the inevitable Stank or EOTG.

Unit 100
Running total 1000

The list is really good, and most of the stuff I said is really preference to be honest, except the Rat Ogres. I'll plead with you to get them after you've set up your 2000-2250 army and can be thrown in for fun games, to get to 3000 etc. They just are way too vulnerable to shooting/magic and are overcosted.

Xynok
04-03-2009, 02:55
If I drop the ogres and slave unit sizes as well as accumulater that gives me 135 points to play with. With that I'll change to get storm daemon for the warlock, warbanner (somebody else mentioned it to me as well so it's probably a good choice, only a tiny bit more) and to replace the ogres basically just stick in 5 Jezzail teams? That should deal with anything the ogres would've been used for previously and also balances the list out a bit more.

Leaves a spare 5 points at the end of it all but that's neglectable. I'll still paint up my ogres just cuz they look cool anyway =D Thanks for the replies anyway, it's given me something to think about and i'll proabably make the changes (still got some stupid amount of painting before I really have to worry about playing the list).

What armies do you think that this would do well against? Or any tactic help would be appreciated. (I'm relatively new to fantasy, even though i'm used to 40K)

Bum
04-03-2009, 03:19
Honestly the list can do well against any army except heavy heavy magic. Maybe Demons as fear really can kick in and **** you off.

Other than that, Skaven struggle against very little when properly hoarded out because you just have so much static CR and units.

One other thing I'll mention. Pick up an extra warlock when you get the chance. My usual 1k list has 2 of them (Then take everything as the extra powerdie can be used then). Along with a rattling and nothing else this is not too overly shooty but is excellent and frying anything you need too before it gets to you. This leaves stuff to fight against your numbers, which is not what people want.

But as a forewarning, if you take 2 locks in 2k leave behind almost all other shooting as then you can approach going overboard. Skaven is probably one of the very few armies that does medium magic well, which I enjoy greatly.

pick up a shield for your Chief, it's never useless. (Remember, you can choose to use either Hand weapon + shield, or two hand weapons/Great weapon (depending on which one you take) at the beginning of any new combat, so if something has a chance at crushing your Chief the extra +2 armor save is great.

I love my ogres in theory. I love the models, I love everything about them except their effectiveness. Hopefully that can be fixed soon enough with the new book.

Depending on who you play, after you get this set up, look into buying a box of night runners as they are useful, and you can make some Gutter Runners too which are killer for as a tunneling team for taking out warmachines (Unless you really like the models, there is no reason not to get nightrunners and just use the coolest weapons/extra stuff to make them gutter runners)

Foegnasher
04-03-2009, 03:33
drop the ogres, great fluff, terrible performance, 1 packmaster gets shot and they are panicing on a 5.

lose the spears. waste of points.

lose the accumulater on the warlock, he can only use three dice, you dont need 4.

now you have 140 points.

95 points for a chieftan bsb with the war banner. he is nekkid, put him in the rear of a unit

the other 45? i'd put a storm demon on the warlock (25)

and 20 points is just enough for 2 poisoned wind globideers, or if you are feeling froggy, the death globes.

just my two cents, PM me if you are looking for a tutor. i know me some skaven.

KidDiscordia
04-03-2009, 14:48
If I drop the ogres and slave unit sizes as well as accumulater that gives me 135 points to play with. With that I'll change to get storm daemon for the warlock, warbanner (somebody else mentioned it to me as well so it's probably a good choice, only a tiny bit more) and to replace the ogres basically just stick in 5 Jezzail teams? That should deal with anything the ogres would've been used for previously and also balances the list out a bit more.

Leaves a spare 5 points at the end of it all but that's neglectable. I'll still paint up my ogres just cuz they look cool anyway =D Thanks for the replies anyway, it's given me something to think about and i'll proabably make the changes (still got some stupid amount of painting before I really have to worry about playing the list).

What armies do you think that this would do well against? Or any tactic help would be appreciated. (I'm relatively new to fantasy, even though i'm used to 40K)

I would say that if you have 5 points left, buy a musician for the slave units. They can provide the difference between rallying or not when using your generals leadership. I have also been lucky enough to break a unit of Khorne Mintoars with a Doombull after hitting it solo in the flank with a unit of 20 slaves because I had a musician. Probably a one in a million deal, but musicians are still worth it.

Spirit
04-03-2009, 16:18
Slaves only need to be 21 strong, they are there to flee from charges to get you the flanks, not to actually fight.

21 means they still need 6 to panic.

Xynok
05-03-2009, 08:04
Besides the changes i've already mentioned i'm going to make, I wonder if I could do something with 45 points i'll gain from selling off 4 of the monks, dropping the unit size to 20?

Foegnasher
05-03-2009, 12:14
that wouldbe 180.

naked bsb and 6 plague censer bearers would be 172 points.

good buy, PCBs rock the hizzy.

Xynok
09-03-2009, 23:02
I'm not entirely sure how to use PCBs sadly as I have none. Any advice on tactics for them? Straight charge or flankers?

moose
10-03-2009, 15:50
PCBs can either be a support unit, or conversley a hammer unit.

If you say, take 6 with a unit of 25 plague monks. You can use the monks to charge or take the charge, and flank with monks.

PCB's are skavens best way of taking out knights, toughness tests on T3 knights is amazing. As the toughness tests are caused before ASF, you can afford to take charges against knights or small units.

I run them near the flanks, and as they're skirmishers they can charge sideways (360 line of sight) if your main blocks get charged.

Moose.

Xynok
11-03-2009, 01:28
Thanks for all the advice... I now have a lot of painting to do before I go on to spread chaos and fear. I'll work at a 500 point army for the moment based on the horde idea and then work up... should've taken ogres (less painting) lol :D

Gobboman10
05-04-2009, 17:01
Holy hell thats a lot of people, a bit rigged wont ye say

Xynok
05-04-2009, 20:49
It's a horde army... what do you expect really? lol

Xynok
09-04-2009, 20:44
This is my first draft army list for my new skaven force, just wondering what the feedback might be and if anyone could suggest any changes.

Heroes

Chieftain - 45
BSB war banner - 50

Unit 95
Running total 95

Heroes 2

Warlock Engineer -45
w/ Warp-blades - 15
w/ Condenser -10
w/ storm daemon - 25

Unit: 95
Running total: 190

Core

25 Clanrats - 125
w/ spears - 25
w/ Standard - 10
w/ Musician - 5

Unit: 165
Running total: 355

Core 2

25 Clanrats - 125
w/ Standard - 10
w/ Musician - 5
w/ Ratling gun - 60

Unit: 200
Running total: 555

Core 3

20 Slaves - 40

Unit 42
Running 595

Core 4

20 Slaves - 40

Unit 42
Running 635

Core 5

3 Giant rat packs - 90

Unit: 90
Running total: 725

Special

20 Plague monks - 120
w/ add hand weapon - 40
Musician - 5
Standard bearer - 10

Unit 175
Running total 900

Special 2

5 Jezzail teams - 100

Unit 100
Running total 1000


There's the update... BSB, jezzails and a bigger giant rat unit.

Not sure If i should trade jezzails for 5 PCBs instead. Would've liked a dispell scroll but then i'd drop the giant rats back to 2. Could afford 6 PCBs (if I dropped jezzails) and upgrade one slave unit to 21 or keep jezzails and upgrade both slave units to 21