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View Full Version : Hellblaster Volley Gun ever worth taking?



pootleberry
04-03-2009, 06:25
I've only just started playing with The Empire and I want to base my army around the Imperial Gunnery School of Nuln. My question regards the Hellblaster Volley Gun. Within the rules it states that this artillery piece rolls to-hit as normal and applies all normal to-hit modifiers. I am obviously going to add the +1 distance mod. (assuming target is over 12") and I am assuming that I would add the multiple shots modifier because this weapon fires many many times (potentially). This would mean that I'd end up targetting units, at an assumed long distance, at a basic to-hit roll of 6+, which really doesn't seem all that good.

Have I got this right or do I not add in the multiple shots modifier. I suppose this is where master engineers come in handy.

Necromancy Black
04-03-2009, 06:34
No, you never apply teh mutli-shot rule unless is says "x multishot".

Things like Razerdons, Flamers and Giant Blowpipes all do multiple range shots but don't get the penalty for multishot as they don't use the multi-shot rule.

In my experiance Hellblaster Volley is actually a good weapon, I reakonmend you take one and try it out for a game or two.

pootleberry
04-03-2009, 06:57
I was hoping to was something like that. In that case I'll give one a go as the range fits well with the handgunners. I was also considering taking one of the Helstorm rockets.

Cheers for your answer.

havoc626
04-03-2009, 07:33
Helstorms can be devastating, if they hit, but that is the problem. They are highly inaccurate, so aren't too affective against the Elite armies, simply because the squads are small. Armies like a Skaven Hoard, however, you will rarely NOT hit. You really have to watch it cause you might take a page from the Skaven book and end up blowing your own troops to bits, without the advantage, however.

Atrahasis
04-03-2009, 08:17
They're great if you know you'll be facing large targets or heavy cavalry.

Large targets because the +1 to hit is obviously very handy actually getting the hot lead where it can do its job, and heavy cav because they'll be coming towards you and into short range where lack of -1 to hit for range means the -4 armour save modifier comes into its own.

When I field one, I operate a "whites of their eyes" policy. Don't fire it until you absolutely have to.

Gorbad Ironclaw
04-03-2009, 08:20
They are much better than they used to be at shooting large targets. Since it's str 5 all the time and not Str 4 over 12" as it used to be it's actually quite scary now. It's not as good at shooting skirmishers and things like that, but against the right target (and there seem to be getting more of them) it's very worth it.

Asmodiseus
04-03-2009, 13:36
I've only just started playing with The Empire and I want to base my army around the Imperial Gunnery School of Nuln.

I wish I had a penny for every time an empire player said this to justify his pure gunline army (Not saying the OP is doing that mind you)

Keller
04-03-2009, 14:40
My helblasters always seem to explode. I used to have my stats with it in my signature, but have lost track. They are completely unrelaible and will likely explode when you need it (if you have my kind of luck, anyway.)

If you can handle the gamble of them, they can be fun to use. My opponents never seem to worry about them, knowing they will blow up on the first dice, but they can absolutely murder things if they go off properly.

Are they worth using? Sure, if you like to gamble your battleplans on one. I generally prefer a mortar instead.

kramplarv
04-03-2009, 14:44
they are worht it 100%. Why? Because even though they like to die, they have such potential the opponent must do something about them, even if he does not want to... :)

Lord Khabal
04-03-2009, 14:47
agree with kramplarv. I play WOC cavalry and those things scare me.

Sarah S
04-03-2009, 14:50
I wish I had a penny for every time an empire player said this to justify his pure gunline army (Not saying the OP is doing that mind you)

Why would anyone have a need to justify anything? It's their money and it's their army.

kramplarv
04-03-2009, 14:56
because sometimes people brings armies which does not encourage a friendly and exciting game?

Foegnasher
04-03-2009, 14:58
Hellblaster is hella-nasty. take one. just be prepared for it to rock out loud, or explode dramaticly on any given turn, you have to roll three artillary dice to shoot it, and if it misfires, well it blows up 33% of the time. (sometimes with spactacular results.)

pootleberry
04-03-2009, 17:58
I wish I had a penny for every time an empire player said this to justify his pure gunline army (Not saying the OP is doing that mind you)

I can appreciate that it may look like I'd only select this choice because it then allows me, fluff wise, to field a gun line army but I just like the idea of fielding a themed army and I love artillery. Besides, I am still planning on fielding a selection of other units. I think there's nothing wrong with fielding fluff armies as this adds something to the game, and this aspect of the game sometimes needs more attention.

Neckutter
04-03-2009, 18:13
helblaster volley gun is an excellent warmachine. and in the Empire book, it is cheaper than before. what is it, little over 100pts? Amazing.

Deacon Bane
04-03-2009, 21:21
You can theme it all you want, but it is still a gunline, and will get the eye rolls. That said, it is your army and legal, so play it if that is what you like. Just don't try and justify it by saying it is themed. I faced a Hellblaster this weekend and it killed 5x Khorne Knights, 5x hounds and 4 Slaanesh Knights in 3 turns, so I would say they are worth taking.

Neckutter
04-03-2009, 21:32
ok, your opponent will always eye-roll you because he gets his butt handed to him.
play an empire army with a Stank? eyeroll.
play an empire army with a WAltar? eyeroll.
play an empire army with a pair of helblasters? eyeroll.
play an empire army with 4 cannons? eyeroll.
play an empire army with a Karl Franz on dragon? eyeroll.
play an empire army with a Balthasar Gelt? eyeroll.

playing at a tournament precludes that you want to compete. this means you play an armylist to win, which in turn means you dont take 10 minimum units of halbardiers, with no detachments.

the opponent in a tournament who complains about your armylist is being a poor sport.

Sifal
04-03-2009, 21:38
If i see a thorek gunline i might sigh, if i see an empire gunline i might sigh, if i see a nicely painted and modelled empire gunline in the black livery of nuln that is genuinely themed fluff wise to actually be a nuln army then I've got no complaint. I think the OP is right about armies needing more theming and fluff thinking behind them, even if it does also mean they are strong builds.

Neckutter
04-03-2009, 21:41
thorek gunline armies are quite easy to beat if you have lots of cavalry though. i think it really depends on your army composition if you care about gunlines or not.

Necromancy Black
04-03-2009, 21:50
play an empire army with a Karl Franz on dragon? eyeroll.


More like stabbing time. Man that guy sucks ****.

Personally, I don't have an issue with gunlines. My Slann is immune to all damage by empire gunline and can dish out the pain, and once my Salamanders are in range I can start causing lots of panic :D

Neckutter
04-03-2009, 21:53
my point was people like to bellyache alot, and all of the above configurations just from one book will get the opponent's ire.

pootleberry
04-03-2009, 21:54
You can theme it all you want, but it is still a gunline, and will get the eye rolls. That said, it is your army and legal, so play it if that is what you like. Just don't try and justify it by saying it is themed. I faced a Hellblaster this weekend and it killed 5x Khorne Knights, 5x hounds and 4 Slaanesh Knights in 3 turns, so I would say they are worth taking.

I don't quite get what your problem is, if you get beaten by a particular style of army then why aren't you evolving your tactics to beat it? Also, don't you think that if you faced an army from Nuln and it consisted of nothing but melee troops that that would be a little weird? To my mind things such as taking two steam tanks in a single list would be weird as there are only eight within the entire Empire but taking multiple cannon, mortor, gunners and the odd specialist artillery piece just makes for a characterful army and wouldn't you expect this from Nuln? Besides, a gunline, if that's the style of army you want to play with, would obviously be nasty against certain armies but I am sure it would be out shot by longbow heavy troops, High Elves and Wood Elves spring to mind.

Laughingmonk
04-03-2009, 22:04
ok, your opponent will always eye-roll you because he gets his butt handed to him.
play an empire army with a Stank? eyeroll.
play an empire army with a WAltar? eyeroll.
play an empire army with a pair of helblasters? eyeroll.
play an empire army with 4 cannons? eyeroll.
play an empire army with a Karl Franz on dragon? eyeroll.
play an empire army with a Balthasar Gelt? eyeroll.

playing at a tournament precludes that you want to compete. this means you play an armylist to win, which in turn means you dont take 10 minimum units of halbardiers, with no detachments.

the opponent in a tournament who complains about your armylist is being a poor sport.

This.

Everyone gives you the eyeroll, even if you lose, simply on what you put in your list. Last game I played, I used a helblaster at 1000 points. The High elf player gave me a friendly eyeroll becuause of one helblaster volleygun (my only war machine), whilst his list included (mind you its 1000 pts) 2 repeating bolt throwers, 2 lvl 2 mages, swordmasters,chariots and spearmen.

It's like empire players aren't allowed to compete, since everyone gets all irritated when we start using the halfway competitive stuff in our lists. But its ok for brets to max out on lances (its fluffy!), vampires to utterly dominate in the magic phase (its fluffy!), high elves to take a caledor list (its fluffy!)..... etc. etc.

kramplarv
04-03-2009, 22:14
bah, it's okay for empire to shoot.
most empirearmies uses 2 cannons, helblaster or steamtank, 20-30 handgunners, one or more unit of pistoliers/outriders. at least.

it's when it looks like steam tank,helblaster,3 cannons, 6 outriders, 45 handgunners, war altar etc when it gets real bad...

woodulikeanother
05-03-2009, 02:28
when i used them i put an engineer replacing the crewman so they got BS 4 instead of 3, and they can be devastating to any unit , and mow down dragons and characters fast

TheDarkDaff
05-03-2009, 04:55
The Hellblaster is quite a nice little piece. It makes the opponent respond or it can create a no-go zone just from the potential damage it can inflict.

If you want a Nuln themed army however then leave it at home. They are made by the Engineers in Altdorf, not the Gunnery School in Nuln (unless they ret-conned that in the most recent Empire book)

pootleberry
05-03-2009, 05:25
The Hellblaster is quite a nice little piece. It makes the opponent respond or it can create a no-go zone just from the potential damage it can inflict.

If you want a Nuln themed army however then leave it at home. They are made by the Engineers in Altdorf, not the Gunnery School in Nuln (unless they ret-conned that in the most recent Empire book)

I didn't realise that, how about the Helstorm Rocket Launcher is that applicable for a Nuln themed army?

Neckutter
05-03-2009, 06:08
if you want to see a non-fluffy list how about 4 cannons, 2 helblasters and then the rest of the army is knights!
:cheese::cheese::cheese:

nosferatu1001
05-03-2009, 07:19
Ouch, now that would get complaints.

Is still a less "sigh" army than the armoured company though. A bit like RAF it just seems wrong - much like collar of khorne on a tzzentch mage is wrong even if allowed.

However - tournament wise you are there to win, so build a strong list if thats what you want to do. People should expect it!

Deacon Bane
05-03-2009, 12:49
I have no problem Poot. Iike I said it is your army, play what you want. But if someone says," oh, great you have a gunline.", you can't say, " ya but it is themed, so it's ok."
As for evolving my tactics, that was my first step once I got home. As after every battle, win or lose, I go over what I could have done differently. The last time i faced this opponent, he brought 2 Cannons. So I adjusted and in the last game both Cannons were gone by turn 3. Next game I will have something to deal with the Hellblaster. That is my favorite part of the hobby.

I also love building themed armies, probably why I have never won Best General at a tournament, and I enjoy facing them also. So no, I have no problem.

Commodus Leitdorf
05-03-2009, 14:37
Honestly, when more then 50% of the units in you army can shoot. I dont think that anyone has the right to complain about empire players taking them.


I faced a Hellblaster this weekend and it killed 5x Khorne Knights, 5x hounds and 4 Slaanesh Knights in 3 turns, so I would say they are worth taking

So shooting took advantage of the weakness of heavy cavalry? Lots of points in nice small packages? Considering the Explode-O-Matic nature of the Helblaster, thats just luck that he managed to do it, and that you lost the gamble of taking expensive Heavy Cavalry.

Honestly, given the killy nature of alot of the new armies out there, Empire troops cant hold the line as well or as long as they used to. (usually at most 2 turns at best) Dont feel bad about shooting the snot out of your opponents troops to even things out.

-Commodus

garythewargamer
05-03-2009, 15:40
Do you know sho calls a list cheesy. The guy that you just beat.

selone
05-03-2009, 16:10
This.

Everyone gives you the eyeroll, even if you lose, simply on what you put in your list. Last game I played, I used a helblaster at 1000 points. The High elf player gave me a friendly eyeroll becuause of one helblaster volleygun (my only war machine), whilst his list included (mind you its 1000 pts) 2 repeating bolt throwers, 2 lvl 2 mages, swordmasters,chariots and spearmen.

It's like empire players aren't allowed to compete, since everyone gets all irritated when we start using the halfway competitive stuff in our lists. But its ok for brets to max out on lances (its fluffy!), vampires to utterly dominate in the magic phase (its fluffy!), high elves to take a caledor list (its fluffy!)..... etc. etc.

I'd be more than happy for you to take a gunline against me :) and thats not because I think i'd beat it, I just think certain armies need a gunline to be competative these days.
It's like when people complain about dwarf shooting, what do they expect?

Stmr5000
05-03-2009, 16:23
when i used them i put an engineer replacing the crewman so they got BS 4 instead of 3, and they can be devastating to any unit , and mow down dragons and characters fast

I'm pretty sure that engineers can't join helblaster crews.

Sureshot05
05-03-2009, 16:34
I'm pretty sure that engineers can't join helblaster crews.

I believe they can, but they may not use their reroll ability on the misfires due to the cankerous nature of the weapons. Previous edition they couldn't join.

That said, its a big gamble as when the blaster goes bang you lose the engineer as well which makes for an expensive loss.

Keller
05-03-2009, 17:57
Engineers can now join helblasters, but cannot reroll the dice. Instead they use the Engineer's BS rather than the crew. An expensive way to get +1 BS, but could be well worth it. Of course, if they use his BS, he can't shoot his own weapon, and if it explodes, he dies as well.

Come to think of it, I think the Engineer could join the Helblaster in in 6th Ed, but did nothing but replace fallen crew members, allowing it to shoot more often if short-handed.