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-Grimgorironhide-
04-03-2009, 07:00
Hi I have been playing my Bretts for a while and though I can get some good tactical flexibility with my Bowmen and MAA I would like to get some more.
How do you think I can make my Brett army more tactically flexible while remaining competitive.

Here's my list. 2250

General: Brett lord (In Grail) 243pts
-Virtue of the joust
-Lance
-Gromril Helm
-Mantle of Damsel Elena
-Grail Vow
-Warhorse
-Shield

Hero: BSB (In Realm) 147pts
-Morning star of Fracasse.
-Virtue of confidence.
-Shield.
-Warhorse.
-Grail Vow

Hero: Damsel (in Realm) 104pts
-Chalice of Malfleur
-Barded Horse

Hero: Damsel (In skirmishers) 120pts
-2 Scrolls

Core: 6 Errant 127pts
-Musician

Core: 9 Errant 226pts
-Command
-Errant Banner

Core: 6 Realm 193pts
-Command
-War Banner

Core: 25 MAA 152pts
-Command

Core: 2x10 Bowmen 140pts
-Mu
-Flaming

Core: 15 Skirmishers 115pts
-Mu
-Flaming

Special: 4 Peg Knights 230pts
-Mu

Special: 6 Yeomen 115pts
-Mu
-Banner
-Shields

Rare: 5 Grail knights 240pts
-Command
-Banner of defence

Rare: 1 Trebuchet 90pts

So what can I do?

cheers.

Rolo Ramone
04-03-2009, 15:14
Take less Grail knights, just 3 of them just because they are cool. If they get ignored, then its gonna hurt to some of your opponent units. If not, they are just 3 of them, so its a good decoy. The banner of defence is a waste of point.

Maybe you can take another trebuchet. If you are good throwing rock you can cause a mess in the other army.
Also, you can make some room and put another unit of Mounted yeomen, they are one of the best unit in the army list. You can use them like a wall ffor your other cavalry, you can use them as decoys and they can hunt warmachines crews and wizards. And they are cheap (keep them as cheap as you can, maybe a Musician and nothing more).


And if you want something twisted, try with magic. I really like the Lore of the beast. Bretonnia is not a great magic army, but it can be fun and can help you a lot.

Rolo Ramone
05-03-2009, 13:49
Oh, and the paladin BSB can not take a Shield.

MarcoPollo
05-03-2009, 15:33
Take more pegasus knights. Put you lord on one too. These are your most flexible units as they provide lateral movement, which your army severely lacks. Two units of three will be better. Any more and you start getting cries of cheese.

Learn how to leap frog charge with them. Here's what I mean. A double lance charge into a unit will usually break a unit. And a charge of one lance and a peg unit will also have a very good chance of breaking a unit. So charge your units expecting the double lance to break and one of the lances carrying through to the fight with Peg's. This will allow you to use the weight of one of your lances in two combat rounds in the same turn. It takes a little practice, so you might want to give it a try at home to see how the mechanics work.

Save points by only using one damsel (L1 2 scrolls).

Put all your bowmen in one unit and make them skirmishers with braziers. Fire has alot more importance these days with all the regeneration models out there.

Men at arms should come in two sizes. One, as very small 10 man units that act as speed bumps/deflectors to protect the long flanks of your lance units. Or really big 25+ so that you get the most out of the static combat resolution.

Trebuchets are good, but are static and can easily be picked off by flyers. A small contingent of M@A would do well to stay with them to get more out of the treb. The treb is good psychologically as your opponent will not want to expose his juicy targets to it. So careful placement of the treb will help.

Kam
05-03-2009, 17:25
Your army is good generally but it would ultimately fail against a specified army. Your army could be shot to death by a shooting army, you have 5 units of knights yes but they arent very big. Your army could be messed up by a magic based army, you do have sorcs for magic defence but Bretonnian casters are good for support, not a long term magic duel. Your army also might also be plowed over by a combat specific army. Some new rules that are coming out for the new armies are rediculous. You will have sever problems in combat with black guard, most chaos warriors, and big problems with an VC player who knows what they're doing. You need a bit more oomph in your army.

Ive been playing Bretonnians for 14 years and I still havent lost. I do play many other armies where I do lose, ive just had a lot of practise with my Bretonnians. I take an army of all Knights, hits hard. I love the tidalwave of knights ni a 2K army. If you build each regiement well (which is costly) then each regiment is self sufficient (with characters) and doesnt need any support units. But i use my Bretonnians fast and hard. Im not saying your Bretonnians are bad, they're better well rounded then mine. Your army could do better in a prolonged fight, but I personally dont like prolonged fights with my Bretonnians.

First of all like stated above, a Bretonnian BSB cannot use a shield. I agree with MarcoPollo....drop the 2nd sorc use just 1 for pure magic defense. A trebucht is good yes, but im a man who loves his Grail Knights. I make that regiment the wreckingball of my army. I put a BSB with the Virtue of Duty, and Banner of the lady in the unit of grail knights because when you charge at a nasty enemy character.... one of your grail knights can accept a challenge instead of the precious BSB. each grail knight can issue a challenge to keep any nasty characters at bay to let the BSB do their thing. i also give the grail knights the war banner so....

combat resolution
Battle standard bearer +1
Standard bearer +1
Virtue of duty +1
+ any rank bonuses (i usually have 8 grail knights with my battle standard bearer)
and with the BSB's banner the enemy cannot claim rank bonuses. That grail knight unit charge is a unit breaker. dont put the lord with them...hes needed elsewhere.

also i agree again with up above, the banner of defense is waste of points.

i see men at arms as a waste of points. they're too slow for my liking. i enjoy my 2nd turn charges. bowmen with braziers can be costly but sometimes they make up their points quite well. they mess up trolls, some things of nurgle... and if they can cause a successful wound into a hydra then they deserve a medal!!!

pegasus knights are versitile and useful, fast, tough...cant go wrong.

mounted yeomen are extremely disruptive to the enemy, use at least 2 units, 2 units of moonted yeomen and 2 units of pegasus knights will give a seemlingly inflexable "all mounted" Bretonnian army some extreme flexibility, and your opponent will need to protect characters and warmachines.

one important thing though... to have a harder hitting army... have one unit of sacraficial knights... if theres an enemy unit u want to hurt and tie up in one go without sacraficing many points... use knights errant. give them the errantry banner. remember when they charge they are immune to psychology. and when they charge they have S6 with the banner, i use a unit of 12 of them. cheap, hard hitting...and i dont really care for them. btu they can really mess something up. one thing thats also important is keep your lord within leadership range of all your knights of the realm and try for the mounted yeomen too. a failed charge in a Bretonnian army can lead to a massacre.

keep your lord alive! hes pretty well equipped, but i personally dont really like the virtue of the joust, i like the virtue of audacity and the sword of might. good for many general situations.

i gave you a bunch of tips, im not saying use them all, i do encuorage everyone to use a very different army when they play because then they might discover new stratagies they may not have seen before.

I also dont use any magic defense in my army, i just hit em fast and hard. i take one or 2 ruonds of shooting and magic then slam into them. i also only use a lord and a BSB. saves points for more knights! just play with them. i find them the most enjoyable army to play....but many would disagree.

good luck!

-Grimgorironhide-
06-03-2009, 00:12
Oh, and the paladin BSB can not take a Shield.

Yeah I know but at our club since all army books are allowing BSB's to take mundane equipment we have allowed armies who haven't been updated yet to do so aswell.

cheers.

Keller
06-03-2009, 01:35
Yeah I know but at our club since all army books are allowing BSB's to take mundane equipment we have allowed armies who haven't been updated yet to do so aswell.

cheers.

BSB's cannot take any mundane equipment except for armor. Holding the standard takes up 1 hand, meaning you can't use a GW, AHW, Shield, etc.

MarcoPollo
06-03-2009, 03:48
I'd say that Kam's suggestion above is ideal for a good winning army. The only problem is if your opponent has magic that makes you move, like slaanesh etc. Having a failed charge is not good, and having knights move in the path of others can be nasty. Also, playing against zombie spam can be hellish with no magic to stop the little speed bumps that crop up.

But I guess an experienced Bret player could manage these circumstances with alot of units.

Alathir
06-03-2009, 08:12
BSB's cannot take any mundane equipment except for armor. Holding the standard takes up 1 hand, meaning you can't use a GW, AHW, Shield, etc.

All army books since High Elves have since had this limitation omitted. Battle Standard Bearers can now take any amount of mundane equipment. It makes sense to me, I see the Bearer planting it in the ground and unsheathing his great weapon.

stonehorse
06-03-2009, 11:42
I'd increase the size of the Skirmishing Peasant Bowmen, with the new popularity of regeneration these days, having a big unit that is free to move around is a must. I'm tempted to take a unit of 20.

I'd also advise to take more Men at Arms, these guys are just so useful, plus I think too many Knights in a Bretonnian army makes them boring to play with and against.

Rolo Ramone
06-03-2009, 12:47
Men at arms are useful but not in all circumstances. If you made an all-mounted army, they never gonna see combat, because they are slow. But, if you made a balanced army list, this guys are great. The can resist a lot until cavalry comes and the are cheap as hell. And their banner doesn´t give a point to your oponent. I agree that they always have to go in big mass or little units, 20 never.

And I almost never take the banner of the lady. So many point and not that useful. In normal circumstances you can break a unit with the warbanner, files and wound if you are charging with 2 lances.

Dark_Knight
07-03-2009, 04:21
All good advice fellows. I would have to ask though, how do Brets overcome a battlefield covered with woods and a Wood Elven army? Without fail my friend massacres me every game because he can go trotting through the woods like they aren't there. Every one talks about turn 2 charges by the Knights. I played a 1k point game where I couldn't get off a charge until turn 4 or 5 because there was too many trees around! Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nu Fenix
07-03-2009, 19:57
Who is deciding on how much terrain you are playing with?
If it is the Wood Elf player, then remind him that the game is meant to be fair, and he wouldnt appreciate you suggesting you play on a pool table, where there is nothing but flat green for you to charge across.

ewar
07-03-2009, 22:49
One thing to note is you can't mix vows in units - so the Grail vow duke and bsb can only join your Grail knights.

Nu Fenix
08-03-2009, 00:41
Yes you can, you just can't have a character in a unit if his Vow is of a lower standing.

So a Paladin with the Knight's Vow can't join Questing Knight or Grail Knight unit, whilst a Paladin with the Grail Vow can join any unit they wish.

Kerill
08-03-2009, 09:19
Your army looks solid enough although you need to drop the banner on your yeomen. The skirmishing archer unit looks a bit big as well. Not sure if your bsb needs the grail vow either unless he is going with the grail knights (in which case your lord should be elsewhere and doesn't need the grail vow).

Losing 5 skirmishers saves you 35 points
Dropping the banner from the yeomen, and maybe dropping a yeoman saves you 30 points.
Dropping a grail vow somewhere saves 28? points.

So thats another 93 points to play with so you could get a second trebuchet. You could also drop the damsel on foot and just have a caddy which would save a few points more.

Still you asked how to make your army more tactically flexible- I'd go magic heavy, drop the lord for a level 4 damsel, boost magic elsewhere and drop the smaller unit of errants to save points. Wolf hunts is potentially game breaking with bretts, even if there are forests.

Mr Uber
11-03-2009, 00:33
Na I play brets for years and there only tactic is to CHArge!!!! Which tend to make for very dull games unless your playing a good player with xp of playing vs brets.

I ran a unit of 5 to 6 grail knights with warbanner and found them to be worth there weight in gold. I've heard lots of players say they don't like them cause KotR spamming is cheaper and does the same job. But I have to disagree their ItP, magic attacks, str4 have helped me out of many a sticky situation and think they make for a great flexible unit. Oh cause when they get shot it hurts so much more than when an errant dies, but you just have to suck it up.

Dark_Knight
11-03-2009, 05:10
Learn to suck up losing knights and you will remain "in the game" much better. each knight lost is a tragedy in points but it happens. Just keep charging and run the enemy down.

Kam
11-03-2009, 17:44
The more knights the better. the only commoners id have would be mounted yeomen and skirmished archers. mounted yeomen can keep up with the knights... and who cares if they die. the archer's arrows can keep up with the knights too.

As Dark_Knight said. Knights will die, it happens. I lost 35 knights in my last game.... but i won, and it was a massacre.

Also Mr.Uber is right. Grail Knights are worth their weight in gold. They are god touched men....and their rules reflect that. KotR spamming can be ok, but the additional strength and compact size helps, not to mention how ethereal things are messed up by them

Keller
11-03-2009, 18:54
All army books since High Elves have since had this limitation omitted. Battle Standard Bearers can now take any amount of mundane equipment. It makes sense to me, I see the Bearer planting it in the ground and unsheathing his great weapon.

Interesting. I'll have to make a note of this, since I hadn't seen it before. Then again, my army books are earlier and I never consider using a BSB.

Thanks for the info.

Malorian
11-03-2009, 18:59
To make my brets more interesting I started running them magic heavy (prophetess, bsb, damsel, damsel). Could be something for you to try.

Just a note on grail knights... warmachines... grail knights die just as easily as a regular knight but cost way more, and you can bet your opponent is going to target them. If you are worried about wraiths take a magic weapon or two.