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Spirit
04-03-2009, 17:33
If a unit is being screened by skirmishers, you can declare charges at seperate units, so that the skirmish screen charges one way thus allowing the screened unit to charge something else.

My question is this: Can a screened unit and the skirmish unit in front of it both charge the same target? If so, how would you work out maximising ect?

The example i am referring to is a carnosaur lord with 10 skink skirmishers in front of him. Both charging at the same target.

neXus6
04-03-2009, 17:36
I think the answer is yes...but...you would have to move the screen first, and if the skirmishers ranked up so long that there then wasn't room for the Carnosaur to get into contact he would fail his charge.

Though there might be something about multiple charging that means all units have to get in. :eyebrows:

EldarBishop
04-03-2009, 18:14
Yes, it is legal. (Depends on actual layout of the models).

Neckutter
04-03-2009, 18:16
if by "screened" unit, you mean the regular unit has LOS, and the skirmishers have LOS to the same target, yes they can both declare charges. you need to declare the charge with the skirmishers first, in order to move them out of the way. this is covered in the rulebook, and you have to "share frontage"

Dokushin
04-03-2009, 18:25
If a unit is being screened by skirmishers, you can declare charges at seperate units, so that the skirmish screen charges one way thus allowing the screened unit to charge something else.

My question is this: Can a screened unit and the skirmish unit in front of it both charge the same target? If so, how would you work out maximising ect?

The example i am referring to is a carnosaur lord with 10 skink skirmishers in front of him. Both charging at the same target.

Can't do it. Carnosaurs are no longer large targets. You have to have LOS to charge, and you didn't have LOS with the carnosaur when charges were declared, because the skirmishers blocked his LOS.

For large targets where this is viable, moves happen simultaneously. The large target will need enough movement to get to an exposed part of the target. If there is no room in the quadrant you are in, the charge fails.

nosferatu1001
04-03-2009, 18:29
If you declare charges at the same unit, i seem to remember the faq stated they are essentially moved at the same time. As such both can share frontage.

Although why you're charging skinks into something I'm not sure....unless its warmachine crew?

stripsteak
04-03-2009, 18:44
basic answer. yes provided both units have legal los to the units they wish to charge when they declare charges

this is covered in the rule book and the newest FAQ.

provided a unit has line of site you can declare a charge based on a another condition needing to happen first. ie this unit is charge but the skirmishers in the way need to move first. if the conditional event happens than the charge succeeds if the condition is not met, then the charge fails.

so to get the skirmishers out of the way, you would either need to declare their charge first, so they would move first. or declare their both charging the same target, in which case they would both move at the same time(provided they are in the same frontage which they likely will be)

e - enemy
s - skirmisher
u - your unit

Example - A


eeeee
eeeee
eeeee

s s s s s s
uuuuu
uuuuu
uuuuu

the unit could not charge in this case because they do not have line of site to the enemy(unless they have a large target in their midst). see page 45 for how skirmishers block LOS

Example - B


eeeee
eeeee
eeeee

s s s
uuuuu
uuuuu
uuuuu

Both skirmishers and the unit can declaere a charge against e. they would move at the same time and share frontage pg 23

Example - C
f - new enemies


fff eeeee
fff eeeee
fff eeeee

s s s s
uuuuu
uuuuu
uuuuu

skirmishers could charge f, and unit could charge e. provided you declare the charge with the skirmishers first(FAQ #2). If you happen to accidently declare the units charge first then the unit will fail it's charge and move just far enoug hfoward until it contacts the unit of skirmishers in its way, or half it's charge distance whichever comes first.

so for you specific question keep in mind a carnosaur is not a large target. so you would either need to follow example B or C.

Dokushin
04-03-2009, 22:53
While we're talking about this, I've got a question: If a unit screened by another unit has LOS and both declare a charge against the same target, does the screening unit have to maximize frontage (since charged first) and crowd out the monster behind it?

Example:



IIIII
IIIII
IIIII
IIIII

K K K K K K K K K
SS
SS
SS
SS

I = Ironbreakers
K = Skink Skirmishers
S = Stegadon

If you declare a charge with the Skinks and the Stegadon, since you have to move the Skinks first, are they going to have to move 7 into contact with the Ironbreakers and leave no room for the Stegadon, or is it legal to 'plan ahead' enough to leave a corner for the steggie?

Tae
04-03-2009, 23:05
While we're talking about this, I've got a question: If a unit screened by another unit has LOS and both declare a charge against the same target, does the screening unit have to maximize frontage (since charged first) and crowd out the monster behind it?

Example:



IIIII
IIIII
IIIII
IIIII

K K K K K K K K K
SS
SS
SS
SS

I = Ironbreakers
K = Skink Skirmishers
S = Stegadon

If you declare a charge with the Skinks and the Stegadon, since you have to move the Skinks first, are they going to have to move 7 into contact with the Ironbreakers and leave no room for the Stegadon, or is it legal to 'plan ahead' enough to leave a corner for the steggie?

I think the most recent FAQ has said that you move them both at the same time, so you would fit the Stegadon in, in such a way as to allow the maximum possible number of skinks as well.

So the Steg would fit on one corner and the rest of the frontage would be skinks.

nosferatu1001
05-03-2009, 05:28
As i said above, they are considered simultaneous charges and therefore maximising models in combat happens at the end of moving both units, not the "first" unit

stripsteak
05-03-2009, 15:32
as mentioned above and again by nosferatu they move at the same time, provided they are charging the same frontage (odd case that they wouldn't but possible) the full rules are on pg 23