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nickdahkwik
04-03-2009, 18:34
Anyone have any ideas on how to defeat a magic strong VC army with Lizardmen any suggestions on where to line up my units is greatly appreciated i have lost 6 in a row with everything from:

Empire warrior priest army 3000pt
Orc n Goblin 3000pt all mages except 2 chars (9) fanatics!!!)
High Elves Shooty army with too decent large blocks of spearmen...and a Dragonmage!!!3000pt all mage char choice too! except for one lord who was a special char!


PLEASE HELP!!! maybe my LIZARDMEN 3000pt can defeat them.

Malorian
04-03-2009, 18:37
You want to beat VC with lizards? Well all you need it troops.

VC core will simply bounce off of spear saurus and temple guard. Add in a few support units and you're good to go.

If he likes going knight heavy then just give your slan the lore of metal.

(And for god sake take the staff of sorcery!)

Whitesox
04-03-2009, 18:41
EoG & Slann that ignores all 6's to cast
Saurus with Spears (kill skellies in droves)
Road Runner Scar Vet to hunt vamps... if he has gone magic heavy i.e. MoTBA with everything, he will only be able to rely on magic items for bite, the magic weapons are generally not worth it and there are not enough good defensive items to keep all the thralls safe against a Scar Vet

As a VC player these would make me rely on IoN more then any other spells because the rest will be so hard to cast

Malorian
04-03-2009, 18:47
Oh, and a scarvet with the piranah blade will wipe out a unit of wraiths in a single turn.

Vesconte
04-03-2009, 21:09
I wouldn't be to sure about lore of metal. It only effects 2d6 models. It does not cause 2d6 wounds. So if he has 5 knights in one unit and you roll as much as 12 on 2d6 you still only get one chance to wound each knight. Likely if he is at all smart he will have t.f.o.b.k to protect him from such an attack on a 4+.

Pete_x
04-03-2009, 21:15
I wouldn't be to sure about lore of metal. It only effects 2d6 models. It does not cause 2d6 wounds. So if he has 5 knights in one unit and you roll as much as 12 on 2d6 you still only get one chance to wound each knight. Likely if he is at all smart he will have t.f.o.b.k to protect him from such an attack on a 4+.

no you get to roll all your hit and then distrbute wounds like shooting. At least if I remember right and also 2+ to kill each knight is good enough

Dokushin
04-03-2009, 22:31
I wouldn't be to sure about lore of metal. It only effects 2d6 models. It does not cause 2d6 wounds. So if he has 5 knights in one unit and you roll as much as 12 on 2d6 you still only get one chance to wound each knight. Likely if he is at all smart he will have t.f.o.b.k to protect him from such an attack on a 4+.

Spirit of the Forge has been errata'd to do 2d6 hits, so you would indeed get to basically wipe out a unit of knights.

j-k-martin
05-03-2009, 05:39
Killing the army is nice, but it gets right up again. I play VC, and the worst thing someone can do to my army is pick off the Vamps. Vamps march, hold the army together, have magic movement, and bring troops back. The reason our troops are sub-standard is because when you team them up with Vamp support they become awsome. Cut out the heart of the army and the over priced troops have trouble getting anything going.

Spirit
05-03-2009, 10:49
Killing the army is nice, but it gets right up again. I play VC, and the worst thing someone can do to my army is pick off the Vamps. Vamps march, hold the army together, have magic movement, and bring troops back. The reason our troops are sub-standard is because when you team them up with Vamp support they become awsome. Cut out the heart of the army and the over priced troops have trouble getting anything going.

Once a vampire army loses even one of its level 2 mages, it starts to be less able to get critical mass of spells to raise things. A slann, or suitably tooled character with bane head or the pirana blade will kill a vampire hero, they are not that well protected.

As for general tactics, stubborn immune to psychology stegadons are a must.

I would take and engine of the gods with diadem of power and a dispell scroll. This will give you 6 dispell dice, plenty to stop the important spells. Also remember the engine does S5 no armour save hits vs undead, this will cripple him. If he has wraiths or ethereal units, make sure you discuss wether or not the engine does magical hits.

Salamanders will be very good at killing undead, 3's or 4's to kill most of the army and you will hit ALOT, even though they cannot panic you will get your points back.

If i were facing it i would take a carnosaur+ old blood with 8 attacks and flank something. 12 attacks turn 1 then 14 attacks from then on because of frenzy, it'l kill whatever it hits.

Saurus should all be armed with spears. t4 and 4+ save is plenty vs undeads mighty S3 troops, and 12 apear attacks a turn will make a mess of things.

A small unit of kroxigor used to flank units will seal the deal. The problem with undead is hitting the flanks, because they generally dont care if you charge, so will just turn to face any threat, this is why you need units that are immune to auto breaking (stegadon ect) to engage the front, then a flanker to hit hard and seal the deal.

The key will be in numbers, take only 2 heroes (slan + mage on engine or oldblood + mage on engine) giving you enough points to put models on the field. EDIT: Ok its 3k points, take a slann, engine and carnosaur and go munchin'

As much as i love skink skirmishers, their use is limited vs undead, simply because they wont kill enough per turn.

nickdahkwik
06-03-2009, 12:00
okay thanks to all whom responded i still have a few days left to choose my troops! i think ill take a oldblood on carnosaur and slann....heres what i have for models to use but my main problem is when i am placing my army where do i put my 2 stegadons!!! one on far left and one on far right of battlefield or right in the center? what about my Slann? center or off to one side... do i take 2 hero...skink mages throw them one on each side so they are able to launch some missles using the slann when he can't see? i haven't played them enough to know how to set up....this is my biggest problem.

nickdahkwik
06-03-2009, 12:09
as per my post above here's what i have for units off the top of my head ...

(2)units 20 spear saurus warriors
(2) units 20 hand/shield saurus warriors
(1) unit 16 hand/shield saurus warriors
(2) (old stegadons)(giant bow)
(6) kroxigors
(3) salamander hunting packs
(1) Slann
(1) Saurus Oldblood w/carnasour
(2) Saurus Oldblood/or hero model(foot)
(2) Skink Priests(foot)
(8) cold one riders w/cmmd
(5) cold one riders w/cmmd(old metal models)

any suggestions are WELCOMED!!!! help me defeat the VAMPS my bro is 6-0 vs me and others!!!

Hopefully my Ld tests should not be a problem with COLD BLOODED rule!

i want to try the new salamanders, take a Slann and Oldblood on Carnasaur use all my spearmen models and maybe field a unit of Kroxigors and one stegadon for sure. this is my idea anyhow

please help any input risky or not is welcomed but i need to know where to place my units on the field like ex: spearmen...Kroxigors on right of them...so they can flank VC once in combat to help them defeat them....or as per above use the Stegadon to charge with...then flank with a unit like the Carnasaur.

thanks!

garythewargamer
06-03-2009, 12:37
The key to defeating the undead is to generate more kills than he can raise. Raising is a defensive spell and if he is busy doing that then he is not casting offensive spells at you. Someone suggested you take lore of metal. Number one spell allows you to target anyone in the unit the vamp. Undead have to have a vamp within so far to be able to march. I play HE and what I try to do is target one unit and kill it with magic and shooting. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.

Necromancy Black
06-03-2009, 23:18
Get rid of those stegadons, upgrade both to EotG mounts for your two skink priests.