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View Full Version : Another N00b question, what is Forge World?



Bathawk
05-03-2009, 01:09
Almost thought I had it all figured out, but what exactly is forge world?

I thought they were a company that makes Apocalypse models for 40k but apparently they make non apocalypse models too? that would make sense if they were a 3rd party, but they're owned by games workshop, right?

Frep
05-03-2009, 01:16
Yeah Forgeworld is a seperate company, owned by gamesworkshop, that makes speciality high quality resin models to fill holes in GWs normal range or to add to their own range of models (Death Korps of Krieg guardsmen for instance). Their prices are quite high but their models are really nice.

Bookwrak
05-03-2009, 01:23
They're a part of GW that makes high detail resin models of pretty much whatever they feel like from super-heavy tanks and chaos dragons all the way down to spare ammo crate scenery.

Bathawk
05-03-2009, 02:05
ARe the models part of a supplementery codex(s)? For instance the Death Corps of Krieg, are they just alternative imperial guardsmen figs or do they have special rules published somewhere?

ANd is Forge World considered official" tournament legal?

catbarf
05-03-2009, 02:38
ARe the models part of a supplementery codex(s)? For instance the Death Corps of Krieg, are they just alternative imperial guardsmen figs or do they have special rules published somewhere?

ANd is Forge World considered official" tournament legal?

All of the special things (stuff that isn't in a codex) have their own rules, found on the website or in their Imperial Armour books. Death Korps can be used as regular Guard, or they have their own list in Imperial Armour 5. As for tourney-legal, you need to ask. Most things with FW rules are on the expensive side points-wise, but some are rather broken. But still, most people will be excited to play against FW stuff so don't sweat it.

The Orange
05-03-2009, 02:42
Forgeworld do produce their own books, with their own armies, but don't mistake these for codicies. As for Tournament legal, that depends on the tournament. If your using FW stuff to represent normal codex stuff (like death corps played under Codex IG) then their won't be a problem. For the forgeworld army lists, frankly I don't konw, and for the more rare stuff (titans, apocalypse models, etc.) you'll really have to ask the tournament organizers specifically. There's no real cut and dry answer sorry, but they are part of GW, so it's not like they won't be accepted at a tournament based on the fact that it's not a regular GW model.

Bathawk
06-03-2009, 09:29
What about those Imperial Armor books...thats essentialy the codexes for the forge world stuff right?

how many are there? are they well done? is one just an update of the ones previous, or are they each they're own book?

Azhrarn
06-03-2009, 09:49
What about those Imperial Armor books...thats essentialy the codexes for the forge world stuff right?

how many are there? are they well done? is one just an update of the ones previous, or are they each they're own book?

Generally Imperial Armour books describe events as a background setting for a campaign. The books generally include rules and/or armylists for FW models, but generally they're not refreshes, each book has its own unique content.
(there is some overlap though, for instance IA 5 and 6 both contain a renegade militia list, but they're quite different in terms of units in the army.)
Imperial Armour Apocalypse has a lot of overlap with all other Imperial Armour books because it updates the rules and points cost of their older super heavies for use in Apocalypse games.
Sometimes a campaign is larger than a single book, IA 5 and 6 are both part of the "Siege of Vraks" series with a 3rd still coming (an assumption of mine, since the story isn't done yet).

At present there are 6 Imperial Armour books out, each is about as thick as the main 40k rulebook so these are not normal codices.

As for the tournament legality, generally the IA lists aren't allowed, the models however aren't a problem as long as they are used with a normal GW codex. Most normal tournaments don't allow Super Heavies either (vehicles with 2 or more structure points) or flyers, but you may encounter exceptions.

Lungboy
06-03-2009, 10:16
At present there are 6 Imperial Armour books out, each is about as thick as the main 40k rulebook so these are not normal codices.

Be careful if you decide to buy them off eBay, as there are actually a lot more than 6 books, and they are called Imperial Armour too. The difference is that the current ones are Imperial Armour Volume 1, 2 etc, whereas the old and out of date ones are just Imperial Armour 1, 2 etc. Then there are also the Imperial Armour Update books, which are also out of date :)

Master Stark
06-03-2009, 10:27
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/

Enjoy.

mughi3
06-03-2009, 10:51
A few misconception that need to be cleared up

1.GW is a large corporation with many different departments. the 40K plastics line is one department/division within the company. FW is just another such division wholly owned and operated by GW.

Some confusion comes from the very old contracts GW had with seperate companies like armorcast who once made many of the models FW now produces.

2.All FW models are legal GW models with legal rules produced and released by GW in the FW books. they are legal to use in normal games without extra "special" permission(they also tend to be overcosted for what they do, but mostly are there to add variety to the game) with the following exceptions as noted by GW-

A.tournament organisers are allowed by GW to specifically dis-allow their use. which is often the case to simplify things for the judges.

B.flyers and superheavies have unique rules(more so the flyers, i've seen baneblades die in one charge to IG roughriders with melta bombs using the IA superheavy vehicle damage chart) that make them harder to counter if you do not know you are facing them, so GW suggests that you discuss it before hand with your opponent(so he/she can bring some AA counter units like skyrays or hydras if he is facing aircraft)

Bathawk
06-03-2009, 10:53
At present there are 6 Imperial Armour books out, each is about as thick as the main 40k rulebook so these are not normal codices.

As for the tournament legality, generally the IA lists aren't allowed, the models however aren't a problem as long as they are used with a normal GW codex. Most normal tournaments don't allow Super Heavies either (vehicles with 2 or more structure points) or flyers, but you may encounter exceptions.

As big as the main rule book?? damn

when you say "lists" your referring to the force organization chart right? I thought super heavies were automaticly not allowed except in apocalypse games

Azhrarn
06-03-2009, 12:25
As big as the main rule book?? damn

when you say "lists" your referring to the force organization chart right? I thought super heavies were automaticly not allowed except in apocalypse games

Generally superheavies aren't allowed, yes. Since they always take up their own force organisation slot.

And with "lists" I mean actual army lists, just as you find them in a normal codex, only using ForgeWorld units/options where those are available.
(an example would be the Elysian Drop troops armylist from Imperial Armour Volume 3 which is in essence a normal IG army with the Drop Troops doctrine and a number of unique options and vehicles such as multi-melta equiped sentinels)

Individual vehicles may be allowed, but that depends on what the tournament organisation decides.

The books also contain the rules for individual units and vehicles used in the army list often with additional background information and clarification of their special rules, much like a normal codex, generally with an extra listing of which armies are allowed to use them.

EDIT: Imperial Armour Volume 2 and the 5th Edition Rulebook side-by-side (http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/azhrarn-101/Misc/IArulebook.jpg)

Apologies for the somewhat blurry picture, but you get the idea.
Imperial Armour Volume 2 is also one of the thinner books I believe. (don't have the others)

Lungboy
06-03-2009, 12:40
2 is quite a bit thicker than 4.

Tonberry
06-03-2009, 12:57
how many are there? are they well done? is one just an update of the ones previous, or are they each they're own book?

Imperial Armour volumes 1 & 2 are essentially lists of rules (with some pretty pictures) of the models FW had made at that time.
IA 3 details the Taros campaign, featuring Tau and Elysian D-99 drop troops, with background, pretty pictures, campaign rules (inc. some Battlefleet gothic stuff) and rules for pretty much all their Tau & Imperial stuff at the time. Primarily desert warfare.
IA 4 is about the Anphelion campaign - Tyranids vs Imperial Guard / Inquisition/Red Scorpions. It has rules for all their 'nid stuff, the specialised Imperial stuff used in the campaign, plus rules for buildings and interior fighting.
IA 5 is part 1 of the Vraks campaign. It has lists for the renegades and DkoK, as well as some scenarios. Primarily trench warfare.
IA 6 continues vraks. Chaos is more Marine orientated, battle gets bigger so Reavers etc are also listed with rules.

They're all excellent quality and highly recommended. As to tournament legality, the same applies to everyone other time this question has been asked. - ring up the tournament organiser and ask. Usually it's a no, to flyers/super heavies/gargantuan creatures etc. However, if someone says no to you using a pretty FW dreadnought which uses the same rules from the codex etc., then they're a *****.

Bunnahabhain
06-03-2009, 13:03
The forge world books are about, depending on which one, about the size of the Hard back rule book, and hard back.

This is to allow sufficient space for lots of background stuff, pictures, stories, the rules, and the army lists.

They are hard back as the secondary method of convincing people of the legality of FW rules in normal games, just like the rule book is hard back to shut up rules lawyers...

Spacker
06-03-2009, 13:08
Imperial Armour volumes 1 & 2 are essentially lists of rules (with some pretty pictures) of the models FW had made at that time.
IA 3 details the Taros campaign, featuring Tau and Elysian D-99 drop troops, with background, pretty pictures, campaign rules (inc. some Battlefleet gothic stuff) and rules for pretty much all their Tau & Imperial stuff at the time. Primarily desert warfare.


Just wanted to add a clarification here - IAv3 has the rules for Imperial Guard units that are not in IAv1. It does not contain "pretty much all their Imperial stuff at the time" as your sentence structure suggests, so it's not a replacement for the units in IAv1.



IA 5 is part 1 of the Vraks campaign. It has lists for the renegades and DkoK, as well as some scenarios. Primarily trench warfare.


It has very little in the way of trench warfare rules. There are a couple of scenarios that use trenches, but there are no specific rules for handling these as they are covered in the main rulebook. The book also has new units for generic IG some of which are also in the DK list (albeit with slightly different costs/options) such as the Macharious, LR Annihilator, artillery, and centaurs.



IA 6 continues vraks. Chaos is more Marine orientated, battle gets bigger so Reavers etc are also listed with rules.


Also contains rules for some Marine units (eg. Siege Dreadnought, Chaplain Dreadnought) and some new DKoK units (Hades, Engineers).



They're all excellent quality and highly recommended.

Have to agree here, although there are some caveats. IAv3 has a lot of typos, apparently the unproofed version was sent to the printers. IAv4 has a few typos, again apparently the wrong version was sent for printing. FW do not release fixed printings (unlike GW who have in the past released 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th printings of codexes with minor adjustments in each release).

With the release of the new IG codex the rules parts of IAv1, the Imperial part of IAv3, plus bits of IAv5 will likely be obsolete, but hopefully FW will release update PDFs like they have done for IAv2 in response to the new SM codex.

Tonberry
06-03-2009, 13:50
:cries: I got Spacker'd :cries:

A much more correct way of phrasing my post would be to say look at the contents list that FW provides for each of its IA books on their website, more specifically here (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/imperialarmourbookcontents.htm),here (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/imparmvol2contents.htm),here, (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/imparm3.htm),here (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/ia44.htm),here (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/ia51.htm) and finally here. (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/ia61.htm)

:p

BigBadBull
06-03-2009, 15:51
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/

Enjoy.

Search is your friend , as is Google and the Forgeworld web location.....

Bathawk
06-03-2009, 17:38
appreciate all the advice...looks like I'll have to search ebay though, not sure how I would buy something in punds sterling, unless forgeworld has mirror for american dollars

Bookwrak
06-03-2009, 19:20
Welcome to the modern world, where currency conversion is an almost automatic part of doing business.

Brother Loki
06-03-2009, 19:47
You can just use your credit card as normal on the site, and it'll do the currency conversion automatically.

Bathawk
06-03-2009, 20:16
Be careful if you decide to buy them off eBay, as there are actually a lot more than 6 books, and they are called Imperial Armour too. The difference is that the current ones are Imperial Armour Volume 1, 2 etc, whereas the old and out of date ones are just Imperial Armour 1, 2 etc. Then there are also the Imperial Armour Update books, which are also out of date :)

does that include Imperial Armour: Apoclypse?

Azhrarn
06-03-2009, 20:25
does that include Imperial Armour: Apoclypse?

Imperial Armour: Apocalypse is not out of date, in fact it's one of the newest releases. Not sure if Vraks Part Two came before or after it. :D

Arador
06-03-2009, 21:00
Before. IAA is notorious for its numerous spelling and other errors, though. IAV6 has better entries for Malcadors, for example, which allow for more sponson weapon variants for the same cost.

zeep
06-03-2009, 21:38
A few misconception that need to be cleared up

1.GW is a large corporation with many different departments. the 40K plastics line is one department/division within the company. FW is just another such division wholly owned and operated by GW.

Some confusion comes from the very old contracts GW had with seperate companies like armorcast who once made many of the models FW now produces.

2.All FW models are legal GW models with legal rules produced and released by GW in the FW books. they are legal to use in normal games without extra "special" permission(they also tend to be overcosted for what they do, but mostly are there to add variety to the game) with the following exceptions as noted by GW-

A.tournament organisers are allowed by GW to specifically dis-allow their use. which is often the case to simplify things for the judges.

B.flyers and superheavies have unique rules(more so the flyers, i've seen baneblades die in one charge to IG roughriders with melta bombs using the IA superheavy vehicle damage chart) that make them harder to counter if you do not know you are facing them, so GW suggests that you discuss it before hand with your opponent(so he/she can bring some AA counter units like skyrays or hydras if he is facing aircraft)

hmm, I had belived that Forgeworld had specifically countered the "all forgeworld are legal" statements. Do not they all now require consent? This is not (nor should it) be an issue because nobody can make you play a game. ;)

For the op, the reasons vary on why people tend not to like forgeworld. While some of the peices are quite nice, with intresting and fun rules, often the balace is extremely questionable. For every time a baneblade or super heavy gets taken out early, there are matches upon matches that it goes through the oponents armies in an attempt to match a german blitzkrieg. Even the non super heavies tend to be used with a synergism that their points would not allow for. While this can be fun, its not long before pavolovian responses to "Im going to use this..." start to associate with a game you will not enjoy, and would frankly rather sit out. Among friends, this is generally a non-issue.

Frankly the biggest issue tends to be one of quantity. Imperial armour is, as the name suggests, unabashedly imperial in nature, leading to options that are staggering for some armies. Its the gripping hand that is the issue here. Other armies are lucky to recieve mention or a possible one volume appearence, usually resulting in few/minor/ units to choose from. This is not conducive to a good, competitive game.

mughi3
07-03-2009, 06:54
Generally superheavies aren't allowed, yes. Since they always take up their own force organisation slot.

This statement is a misnomer they actually take up a "super heavy detachment" of up to 3 superheavy vehicles not related to the normal army FOC. so it is not an actually seperate "normal" FOC per say.



hmm, I had belived that Forgeworld had specifically countered the "all forgeworld are legal" statements. Do not they all now require consent? This is not (nor should it) be an issue because nobody can make you play a game.
back in 04' with the release of IAII they made it quite clear that by your opponant agreeing to play you they were providing you with all the permission you needed to field the models in you're army including FW units.

they compared it to expecting the eldar players to have to get special permission to field an avatar since they are also supposed to be "rare" like FW variant vehicles. Since both the FW rules and the normal codex rules are legal GW rules no additional permission is needed with the exceptions they noted.



For the op, the reasons vary on why people tend not to like forgeworld. While some of the pieces are quite nice, with intresting and fun rules, often the balace is extremely questionable. For every time a baneblade or super heavy gets taken out early, there are matches upon matches that it goes through the oponents armies in an attempt to match a german blitzkrieg. Even the non super heavies tend to be used with a synergism that their points would not allow for. While this can be fun, its not long before pavolovian responses to "Im going to use this..." start to associate with a game you will not enjoy, and would frankly rather sit out. Among friends, this is generally a non-issue.


The thing you will find using the non-apocalypse rules is that most FW units especially superheavies are way overcosted for how they perform. the entire point of taking these variants is that it add variety to the game.
As an example i played a chaos player (khorne) and specifically requested he bring his titan along for the match at 2K. taking the titan meant he had to loose 3 defilers and 2 full terminators squads. performance wise he took a major hit for those 2 guns the titan got to fire each turn. granted i never killed the titan, but then again i didn't really try all that hard since it was much easier to kill what little else he had on the table.


Frankly the biggest issue tends to be one of quantity. Imperial armor is, as the name suggests, unabashedly imperial in nature, leading to options that are staggering for some armies. Its the gripping hand that is the issue here. Other armies are lucky to receive mention or a possible one volume appearance, usually resulting in few/minor/ units to choose from. This is not conducive to a good, competitive game.
the tau have received quite a bit as well as kroot, eldar, nids, orks, chaos, and space marines. the people really left out in the cold seem to be dark eldar, and necrons.


The bulk tends to go to the imperial guard in the form of variant tank chassis and artillery units

zeep
07-03-2009, 08:03
back in 04' with the release of IAII they made it quite clear that by your opponant agreeing to play you they were providing you with all the permission you needed to field the models in you're army including FW units.

they compared it to expecting the eldar players to have to get special permission to field an avatar since they are also supposed to be "rare" like FW variant vehicles. Since both the FW rules and the normal codex rules are legal GW rules no additional permission is needed with the exceptions they noted.


Unfortunatly this has been specifically changed. This however should not be an issue, as simply talking with your opponent will negate any problems. What it stops is the suprise drop in baneblade. There is a giant myth about overcost on forgeworld. Certain tanks are overcosted (usually LR variants, though several of the transports as well) Funny enough, they tend to not see the light of day. I happen to love the lines of the hydra, yet I never see them on the table. Instead you tend to see models with special rules... I.e firing ordance twice for low point costs, etc. usually these rules are taken in a combination to produce an effect that goes beyond "points".

To date, my biggest issue with appocolypse is how it has changed the perceptions of some players. After spending $80+ on a tank, they naturally wish to use it. Stop the tank becomes uninteresting quite quickly.

Humor me for one minute more of your time. Have you ever accepted a pick up game and within minutes knew you were not going to enjoy it? That the personality of the opponent was simply not worth the hour and a half of game time you were about to invest? Think about what told you that. Perhaps it was the "motorboating" he did as he placed his troops. Perhaps it was the terminology he used that told you implicitly that you were about to go up against a waac git. Whatever subtle clue gave it away, you (being a reasonably intelligent person) filed away as a future warning. Thats the feeling that many of us (were more common then you think) get when we see that first piece of resin pop on to the table.

In the example of the titan given, that is exactly what is good about forgeworld. It was not a drop in, it was instead a fun, interesting game. A change from the usual. Exactly what Forgeworld is supposed to allow to happen.

Gorbad Ironclaw
07-03-2009, 08:20
A.tournament organisers are allowed by GW to specifically dis-allow their use. which is often the case to simplify things for the judges.


How very nice of them...:rolleyes: Especially since they(GW) have absolutely no say what so ever in how people run there own events...

mughi3
07-03-2009, 10:16
How very nice of them... Especially since they(GW) have absolutely no say what so ever in how people run there own events...
Yeah i have seen rules for some that were just nuts....one guy had a hard time trying to field a legal DW army when they banned all special characters >_<


they tend to not see the light of day. I happen to love the lines of the hydra, yet I never see them on the table

I know lots of people who love the hydra....it's the cost that keeps them off the table, not the model or the rules.

So far in my gaming group people have scratch built-
.eldar firestorms
.titans
.eldar vampire superheavy flyers
.macharius super heavy tanks.
.manticores

i'm not so hot with plasticard so i actually spent the cash to get some repressors, land raider prometheus, helios, and a land speeder tempest. the repressors and the prometheus see regular use in my normal league SOB list.

The tempest see's occasional use, and the helios...while really good under the new rules, really doesn't fit into any normal list i am running right now.


There are only 2 things i can trhink of out of every IA book that might be considered a tad broken for non apocalypse games or otherwise not worth the points-

.flyers without bringing along AA units like hydras to deal with them.

.The "infernus shell makes everybody fall back" thing.

Otherwise i see no game balance issues. a heavy bolter is still a heavy bolter rather it's hooked to a pred or is the main weapon sponsons on a land raider(which had to give up las cannons to get it)


Unfortunatly this has been specifically changed.
I only own IAII space marines and forces of the ][ since it was the only one i needed. i have seen no change in the rules and nobody has told me any differently even though many people i know do have all the other non-apocalypse IA books.




Have you ever accepted a pick up game and within minutes knew you were not going to enjoy it?
Yes i have(i game for 12 hours+ every saturday), and every time it is 100% the attitude of the person i am playing thats the problem, not what is in or not in their army list.


Thats the feeling that many of us (were more common then you think) get when we see that first piece of resin pop on to the table.

Then i dare say those people have an attitude problem if they set you off from the get go. it should not matter what legal GW/FW model they put down. some of the best games i have had i got beaten badly.

shin'keiro
07-03-2009, 13:27
high quality resin models

Let's not get carried away... it's brittle cheap resin not high quality dental resin...:p

Spacker
07-03-2009, 18:10
:cries: I got Spacker'd :cries:


Sorry :angel:

Bathawk
08-03-2009, 07:38
ok what is this "resin" busineess" I mean I know what resin is, but is it less quality than plastic? or is it something that allows for more detail in the models?

Spacker
08-03-2009, 09:20
It's a form plastic (look up Polyurethane Resin for more info) that can be cast at lower temperature and pressure than the injection moulding process used for mass production plastic kit production (which also uses plastic that sets very quickly to keep production turnover at a high level). Large scale plastic kit production requires investment in injection moulds and equipment, for smaller scale production (FW is nowhere near large scale production) it's not cost effective and using rubber moulds with polyurethane resin is a better option. These models often have much more detail because they are not fully restricted to the 2.5D requirements of metal moulds (you have to be able to pull the mould sections apart without any undercuts in plastic injection moulding, but there is a little give in the rubber moulds so you can away with small undercuts), but also because GW tends to keep their plastic kit details down to the minimum to reduce the number of miscasts (the more detail you have the more chance of air being retained in those details and a miscast occuring).

I wouldn't call it "less" quality than plastic, but it is of a different quality. Depending on how it's mixed it can be more or less brittle than injected plastic. You often need to be a little more careful with how you strip paint from it as some chemicals are more likely to soften it.