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View Full Version : Lore of Metal Spirit of the Forge Does not match flavor text



TroyJPerez
05-03-2009, 11:30
I was looking at the Lore of Metal as I am on the recieving end of it a lot. And I noticed something. Games workshop recently FAQ'd the Spirit of the forget to do 2d6 hits instead of effecting 2d6 models. Now I'm trying to figure out why? The flavor text before the spell says it heats up your enemies armour and does damage that way. So shouldn't it be one hit per model afflicted? What if one model gets hit 12 times, does it heat, cool down, heat again, 12 times? Seems like a lame rules FAQ for an already overpowered spell. The original way was a lot better, where a single model could only ever take 1 hit. hmmm maybe they did it to give an easy mode way to bring down steamtanks. Any thoughts?

kramplarv
05-03-2009, 11:33
It was clear before that the spell did 2D6 hits. :) It is just good that GW clarified this. :)
I though no one played with "models" :)

TroyJPerez
05-03-2009, 11:41
I'm just arguing that it made more sense before they changed it. How do you heat someones armour multiples times to hurt them more? Spirit of the Forge is supposed to be a multishot version of the level 1 spell which only hits on model. The flavor text just doesn't support what it does. Which I find kinda funny.

selone
05-03-2009, 11:44
Are you arguing the realism of a magic spell?

TroyJPerez
05-03-2009, 11:45
No, but since it sounds like it can hit a single target more then one time per casting and it distributes like shooting... I'm kinda of wondering why its not a magic missile.

Tae
05-03-2009, 11:56
Because there's no magic projectile coming from the Wizard towards the target, it is simply that the target's armour starts to heat up.

Or, in the case of a single character taking 12 hits, melting into his body.

EndlessBug
05-03-2009, 12:34
well just see it as, there is a certain amount of energy (heat) in the spell (2d6 worth), if it's on one model then that one model gets hit with all of the spells energy (one hell of a lot of heat), if it's on a unit then the spells energy is spread between them.

i.e. (I know im not using exact numbers, im just using the boiling point of water as an example) If it takes 100 degrees C to melt the armour and the spell generates 2d6 * 100 worth of heat, say a 7 is rolled, then 700 degrees will hit the target. In the case of 1 model then that 1 model takes the full 700 degrees, in the case of 7 or more then they all take 100 degrees. Clearly 700 degrees is much much much worse than the 100, therefore the model will take more damage.

It actually makes more sense than most of the spell fizzling out.

Grimbrow
05-03-2009, 12:44
When did it say 2d6 models? In my version of the book, it says it's exactly the same as Burning iron, "except that the unit takes 2d6 hits distributed like shooting". To me, that always meant that a single model could take all the hits....like with shooting at a single model :)

Coram_Boy
05-03-2009, 13:14
Mabye it's been changed, then. the old books from the beginning have 2d6 models.

Ophidian
05-03-2009, 13:30
Perhaps a given model's armour gets so hot that it doesn't just hit him, it hits the people around him as well (ie. model A takes a hit not just from model A's armour, but B's, C's, etc and so on)

garythewargamer
05-03-2009, 14:28
Yes I guess playing the WoC you get the lore of metals thrown at you most of the time. Sometimes it is good to be a new player as you have nothing to forget. Reading the spell again it means exactly what it says. 2d6 hits randomized like shooting.
Here is a simple example. A RBT shoots at another RBt all six shots. You roll to hit then you roll to randomize. Obviously you are attempting to hit the crew. Say you do three hits on the crew and three on the machine, above average die rolling of course. Then you roll to wound the crew and next you roll to hit the machine. Or which ever way you state it.

Commodus Leitdorf
05-03-2009, 14:33
It was changed probably for one reason. Lets say you cast it in a steam tank, its gets through and for arguements sake you get lucky and roll double 6! Yes dead Steam Tank!

However.....it hits 2d6 models....The stank is only one model, so only one hit.

Thats probably why it was cleared up (though I certainly wouldn't play it that way, its clear what the intention of the spell is but you have some pretty hard nose rules lawyers out there, better to close up loose ends.

EvC
05-03-2009, 14:45
It wasn't ever rules lawyering to say it only affected 2D6 models- as Troy points out, the flavour of the text indicates that it is heating up individual sets of armour (or whatever), so it should have only been 2D6 models. However, the designers figured that it would be better if it did 2D6 hits, so they made an errata, which changed the text to 2D6 hits rather than models. Not everything is about hard-nosed rules lawyering (And in fact the last time I saw someone say it was 2D6 models in a game, it was a young lady who had cast the spell herself, after she had blasted her opponent's Steam Tank- he was good enough to correct her)!

I think the spell is a bit too powerful sometimes, if it goes off, then that's usually a unit of Knights dead straight out. It also kills a Treeman nine times out of ten (Because it's flaming), and will cripple a Steam Tank. While it is good that there are effective counters to all those kinds of models, it's still damn powerful! Mind you, last game I had with my Warriors vs Lizardmen, my opponent got IF SotF on turn 1 to wipe out a unit of Knights- but at least it didn't harm the Sorcerer within the unit, unlike Infernal Gateway...

jax40kplyr1
05-03-2009, 15:02
Well if you really want to get into the spirit of the text, then Treemen, models with a scaly save, etc shouldn't be affected by the spell. They don't have metal armor to heat up . . . .

Lord Malorne
05-03-2009, 15:07
Aye, if it was 2D6 models, then it would be a pain in the ass for multi wound models...:confused:... :p.

The 2D6 represents how powerful or effective it can be, as it is only stregth 4, should the flavour text also say 'though the wizard can ony hurt beteen 2 and 12 people :(', it represents the power of the spell and is fine IMO.

Commodus Leitdorf
05-03-2009, 15:12
Not everything is about hard-nosed rules lawyering

In this case perhaps, perhaps not. The fact that they changed it must be the sign that the original wording of the text was not what they had intended to begin with. Now thats it is hits it is a particularly nasty spell especially against Knights....one my Dark Elf opponent like to use against me...

EvC
05-03-2009, 15:27
Aye, if it was 2D6 models, then it would be a pain in the ass for multi wound models...:confused:... :p.

No, because even in that case you would pool the wounds as normal, so if three Ogre models all suffered a wound from the spell, then that would be one dead Ogre total. Although I'm sure people would be very confused by it...


The 2D6 represents how powerful or effective it can be, as it is only stregth 4, should the flavour text also say 'though the wizard can ony hurt beteen 2 and 12 people :(', it represents the power of the spell and is fine IMO.

Yep, sure. GW writes the rules, whatever they say goes!


In this case perhaps, perhaps not. The fact that they changed it must be the sign that the original wording of the text was not what they had intended to begin with. Now thats it is hits it is a particularly nasty spell especially against Knights....one my Dark Elf opponent like to use against me...

Indeed, I think I've played one game using my Warriors so far where my opponent hasn't chosen the Lore of Metal...

Lord Malorne
05-03-2009, 15:31
No, because even in that case you would pool the wounds as normal, so if three Ogre models all suffered a wound from the spell, then that would be one dead Ogre total. Although I'm sure people would be very confused by it...


yeah I know hence the smilies :D.


Yep, sure. GW writes the rules, whatever they say goes!


It sure does :cries:.

danny-d-b
05-03-2009, 15:36
if you complaining about lore of metal just turn up with no armour, that will help you!

Buckero0
05-03-2009, 15:40
why is this a topic again?