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View Full Version : Where do lizardmen stand in the army power ranking?



TroyJPerez
05-03-2009, 11:43
I know its early but does anyone have any opinions on where lizardmen stand in the current army books? Are they in the same class as Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, and Demons? Or are they more in the middle along with most of the other armies?

Chainaxe07
05-03-2009, 12:02
I'd say they are quite powerful, though rather balanced overall.
If you just look at "row power" they are much, much better than DE and VC
(i suppose calling VC powerful is somewhat "original"...), dont know about demons.
They have the ultimate unkillable wizard (5 wounds, 4+ward save, regenerating and terror causing slann than can be magic resistant as well, and cast like hell), and hard hitting saurus lords that are at least as strong as chaos and dwarf lords (therefore much better than the DE and VC characters).
They have good, solid, hard hitting and disciplined infantry, decent skirmishers, they can add kroxigors to skink units, terradons are amongst the best flyers around and the stegadon, in all its variant, more than makes up for the lack of all other warmachines.
They also have tough monsters and a very respectable heavy cavalry.
None of their pieces are overpriced.
Best magic weapon all around (at least in the hands of a saurus lord), some cool armour and one decent save. Aside from this i'd say their magic items are just average, but slann get around this via their specil powers (bought separately).
All in all you can make pretty solid lists with the book, and most importantly you can employ various strategies.
They are, however, far from unbeatable, so dont panic!

Max_Killfactor
05-03-2009, 12:51
Personally I think they are below Dark Elves, but a little above High Elves. I've only seen a few games that they were in, but they look very solid.

Seandy
05-03-2009, 12:59
Thanks guys i think my first army will be lizardmen going between counts and high elves

there top armies? lol i'm sure even if played right orges could cream dark elves if plaayed correctly

VC seems intresting but i dunno...so unstable.

theunwantedbeing
05-03-2009, 13:02
Below VC and Daemons, alongside Dark elves.

Kerill
05-03-2009, 13:03
Early to say, below the top three but certainly up there with high elves I guess.

Coram_Boy
05-03-2009, 13:06
Below DE, VC and DoC, but a close 4th. Probably HE, WE, WoC, and Empire are straight below (not sure of the order)

Seandy
05-03-2009, 13:07
What's top then and has any of the top armies been remade? for the new edition?

Malice&Mizery
05-03-2009, 13:13
What's top then and has any of the top armies been remade? for the new edition?

Well, most people seem to think Daemons are at the top but I don't see what all the fuss is about, perfectly balanced imo :)

Well the "top" armies were made in this edition if that's what you meant?

Genrazn
05-03-2009, 13:14
Daemons are on top b ecause of there CHEEESE and general BS list they have

Seandy
05-03-2009, 13:16
honestly lok wise i'm looking at lizardman or vamp counts maybe high elves :)

Coram_Boy
05-03-2009, 13:22
I think lizardmen are good if you want to learn to play fantasy, as like empire they have a wide range of troops as well as some more exotic things (if a starter set came with lizardmen and skaven I would die from happiness :D) like terradons, and the stegadon/razordon (and other things ending with don too....)

Seandy
05-03-2009, 13:28
i have the battle for skull pass i painted my dwarves to try em there's things i hate and things i hate about dwarves night goblins i look to them and groan even thinking about painting thoses things.

Necromancy Black
05-03-2009, 13:52
VC and DoC at top
DE, WoC and Lizardmen jsut below.

I've played enough WoC to know that Lizardmen are at the very least the same level as them, and I'm yet to try a single Stegadon!

Hard to say with DE, as both armies can pull out some power in different places.

Rolo Ramone
05-03-2009, 14:24
At leastk, almost everybody think that lizards got a good and balanced book.

W0lf
05-03-2009, 14:46
Id rank them alongside the likes of WoC, HE, Bretts, Wood elves, Dwarfs, Empire,Skaven as a middle ground army.

To me fantasy is broken down as;

Daemons, Vampires, DE
- Everything else -
Orcs n gobbos, beastmen and ogres.

fastcarfreak
05-03-2009, 15:00
I think the list is definitely balanced and in the 2nd tear. Im not sure why people keep rating WOC as an upper 2nd tear army. I think they are one of the easiest lists to beat. Maybe I just haven't played against a good general yet.

EvC
05-03-2009, 15:01
They're quite powerful, but really hard to gauge because some builds are ridiculously hard, but most are fair. No other army in the game can get three Lord level casters at 2K, and it's quite horrific to face armies like that.

Desert Rain
05-03-2009, 15:29
I would put them on about the same place as WoC HE and DE. They are powerful but not OTP like the daemons are. Everything is priced well and all units (except swarms) are viable choices.

Emissary
05-03-2009, 16:31
I think the main thing about them is that they are well priced. As far as I can tell nothing is too cheap for what you get. There is power in the list but you get it at cost rather then get it plus some other things.

nosferatu1001
05-03-2009, 17:08
Theycan get 3 lord level casters at 2k, but are burning 1k points just on those. Mind you, 2 units of krox 3 units of 10 skink is only 500 ish, giving you room for some terradons, salamanders etc

However - saurus spear blocks are mean (6x3 is only ~250 points with full command) to give you (if the opponent fluffs it) 25 WS3 S4 attacks back, and a decent +3 static.

I'd say they are probably above WoC (having flyers and FAST skirmishers AND decent combat blocks tips them over), about equal qith good HE and WE lists. Especially WE, as they can murder them - 2 engines and a slaan will shut down the WE magic phase and destroy them with burning alignment. spam FIre with the Slaan and you have dead, dead and dead forest spirits etc.

DoC are waaaay above everyone else - the standard BT + 3 tzentch level 2's plus small horrors, max flamers and some hounds gives you obscene magic, obscene combat monster and fast movement on everything that needs to move. An average DoC list can take on a great VC / DE list and, generals equal, still have an above average chance of winning.

EvC
05-03-2009, 17:46
3 Lord level casters and two massive beasties and two huge unstoppable abilities they can use every turn for 1K points- seems quite a good deal to me! It's more like 1200 points anyway ;)

nosferatu1001
05-03-2009, 18:04
Well, about 450 per steg, assuming max items, and then around 600 for a slaan BSB - with stupid banner

protect slaan with TG or use Ethereal discipline.

ScalySkin
05-03-2009, 20:43
I think they sit just below DoC and VC, in the hands of a good general I don't think they have more than a slight disadvantage against VC and DoC, they have a great arsenal to compete with any army.

Kerill
06-03-2009, 04:17
I think the main thing about them is that they are well priced. As far as I can tell nothing is too cheap for what you get. There is power in the list but you get it at cost rather then get it plus some other things.


Agree completely with this statement. DE, DOC and VC all have some stupidly cheap stuff or combos, lizardmen have neither, just a very solid line up of troops.

Incidentally I would put WOC smack bang in the middle of the armies, they have one strong list for tourneys- infernal gateway delivery system with buboes backup, otherwise they are very average and most armies have at least one power build (thorek for dwarves, double stank and altar for e,mpire etc.)

blackjack
06-03-2009, 04:33
No other army in the game can get three Lord level casters at 2K

Tzench can do 4 Lord level casters, an LOC and 3 big block of horrors.

Gork or Possibly Mork
06-03-2009, 04:44
I think there up there with the top 3 DOC,VC,DE. Most of my opponents have played these armies for years and still do and I have gotten wins against all of them recently where before with the 6th.ed Lizzies I really struggled to eek out a draw. I still think it's a bit early to tell but judging from my games there quite powerful and less abusive than the top 3. They seem to have the top 3's number without being OTT which kind of amazes me. If I had to rank them I'd say 4th or a close third overall. I think what I like about them most is they really shine with a mixed force.

They do however have some things that could be considered abusive to mildy abusive.
Slann+Duel EotG
Slann+EotG+Warspear Skink on Ancient
More than 2 large terradon units
2x3 sallie units.

PARTYCHICORITA
06-03-2009, 04:57
How amuzing:

When DE book was about to come out many "veteran" DE players on these board where "boo, DE are gonna suck". They turned out great

When WoC book was coming out most people went "WoC is gonna suck". They turned out ok.

When LM were about to be realese many people were angry about how bad the book was gonna be. It turn out rather well.

ChaosVC
06-03-2009, 06:03
Lizardman is good especially against VC with the right combo, and that combo is good against any army too. The slan can discount any six rolled by any wizard within 24 inch of him, that makes him dominate in magic even against another lvl4. With decent fighting troops, a scarvet and the slan and his disciplines. You have an army that can compete with VC very well, not sure how well it will do against Daemons as my group have yet to test that against the lizards. I pretty sure Lizards can compete with Dark elves for the third place.

I have seen Lizard beat up WoC gateway delivery list twice and VC in general twice.

nosferatu1001
06-03-2009, 12:28
Tzench can do 4 Lord level casters, an LOC and 3 big block of horrors.

I didnt think the heralds could be level 3? I know they can know all spells, however lord level would be level 3 / 4

EvC
06-03-2009, 14:59
No, he means the horror units themselves, that can be level 3/4 casters. So yeah, I was wrong to say no other army can get so many Lord level casters- there's another cheesy army out there that can do it even better :D

nosferatu1001
06-03-2009, 15:40
Yeah, forgot the horror blocks. However an army like that jsut dies soooo quickly - horrors cant even beat terradons on a regular basis!

EvC
06-03-2009, 16:22
A unit of 20 certainly will, especially if there's a Herald for 4+ ward save- and that assumes that the Terradons will make it into combat, with all the Flickering Fires zapping about...

nosferatu1001
06-03-2009, 16:45
Heralds are surely wandering around on discs, blasting people? :D

They may get there, depends on priorities - the nasty stuff heading your way may make you reconsider. 2 stegs Aligning near you would cause headaches....

beaumontbrawler
06-03-2009, 20:35
So far, my leezards have defeated O&G (I know . . . you're shocked), WoC, DE, DoC, and TK . . . 5-0!

While not being overpowered, it is a solid list . . . but it still has some significant holes of vulnerability that, I think, have just not yet been discovered by most.

dunagrad
06-03-2009, 20:51
So far, my leezards have defeated O&G (I know . . . you're shocked), WoC, DE, DoC, and TK . . . 5-0!

While not being overpowered, it is a solid list . . . but it still has some significant holes of vulnerability that, I think, have just not yet been discovered by most.

shhhh ... don't tell them!

EvC
06-03-2009, 23:10
Heralds are surely wandering around on discs, blasting people? :D

More like chariots, I've never seen a Herald on a Disc. Well, except for one guy, who told me he was running a 19 power dice Tzeentch army because he liked the background... and so he ripped the Heralds off the Discs and put them on the far-superior chariot instead ;)

mithrandir
06-03-2009, 23:33
The reptilian ones, if you notice, were made up as an army list to sort of bring both daemons and vampires back to earth, so to speak..... VC & Daemons are definitley upper tier power armies, followed now by lizards and dark elves, then perhaps warriors of chaos and bretonnians. Watch out for those furry rascals coming this summer though, whiskers & musk!!!!!

LKHERO
06-03-2009, 23:52
I think the Lizards are going to be rather on par with a lot of the other top tier armies.

6 Stegs with 2 EotGs are no joke..

A lot of armies have trouble against a crap ton of poisoned shots + 6x monsters.

Ri-xthoal Lord of Lustira
07-03-2009, 00:23
Don't you guys think it is too soon to rank the Lizardmen until gamesday and GT? From there, we can judge their performance.

Znail
07-03-2009, 01:00
How amuzing:

When DE book was about to come out many "veteran" DE players on these board where "boo, DE are gonna suck". They turned out great

When WoC book was coming out most people went "WoC is gonna suck". They turned out ok.

When LM were about to be realese many people were angry about how bad the book was gonna be. It turn out rather well.

I think you are starting to understand the forums! Take them with alot of salt.

Somewhat related to this thread so are Lizardmen in the lead in the vote for 4th strongest army, so it seems thats the spot for them according to this forum.

Chainaxe07
07-03-2009, 18:06
Huh, just finished a 3000 pts game against them with my WoC.
With this i played against their new incarnation 6 times, and witnessed at least as much games against them.
This is much more than against VCs, that (and i understand this is against the general opinion in this forum) are considered pretty weak, so no one plays them any longer.
Today i won (Yeaaah!!!), that brings my personal record to a reasonable 3-3.
I played against four different generals, with capabilities that i'd judge like ranging from average to good (no dummies in our club!), with one being very good .
I consider myself as average to good too.
Impressions: they have something against anything, have very very very (did i say very?) strong and hard to take down characters and monsters, troops are more solid than most, and can take much punishment dishing out more than they get.
I think no other army can afford this luxury.
They have really nice flyers that complement core units perfectly, and the stegadon is all they need to fill the warmachine/monster role.
They have a very respectable heavy cavalry with lots of attacks, and decent skirmishers.
All in all: they lack nothing, have characters that can be much more "abusing" than VC, DE and WoC and are jacks of all trades without being masters of none.
Definitely my next project!
There are, however, a couple things i am not crazy about.
First off in 12+ games i have never seen a whole kroxigor unit fielded.
The only big lizards i have seen are used to bulk up the skinks, and they work reasonably well in this role.
I think the all kroxigor unit entry might be redundant after all, as i doubt it will ever be so much popular.
The hunting groups...well they could work, actually they probably do. But how many people are gonna buy them instead of another ancient stegadon?
I would not.
Slann are no doubt the best, hardest and most resilient wizards in the game, but their extra strong hard hitting saurus lords are somewhat limited when it comes to equipment and mounts (inc. monsters).
This is hardly a problem, actually, as they are extra strong, extra resilient and have loads of attacks so, even without any boost from odd monsters, they are easily a match for chaos lords and tooled up dwarves.
Skink characters are quite cheap, but while the shamans have their use (both on ancient stegadons and by themselves), i am yet to see a skink hero used to some effectiveness, including those on terradons.

Kalec
08-03-2009, 06:15
Lizzies are without a doubt below DE, VC, and Daemons. I would put them around equal with HE and WE.

Shamfrit
08-03-2009, 10:20
Depending on the player, below Daemons, but on the same level as VC and DE.

Finnigan2004
08-03-2009, 14:44
It's tough to compare books when the differences between lists that are taken from the books is are so vast. Really, it depends on whether the list is led by a slaan or an oldblood, whether it has a pair of Engines of the Gods to back the slann, or cold ones riders to back the carnie.

This book looks like it can be nasty, but comparing book to book instead of list to list just doesn't work. If you are asking if this book can hang with other tough armies (assuming appropriately an appropriately tough army is chosen from the list), then the answer is undoubtably yes.

soots
14-03-2009, 06:22
1. Liz. They have tools to beat Daemons and VC (EoTG nukes and extreme high LD/ItP)and 20+ S4 Attacks from core or lots of T6 stubborns with boltthrowers)
2. Daemons
3. VC
4. DE
5. Bretts
.... Everyone else
x. Greenskin
y. Beasts of Chaos
z. Ogres

The Senate
14-03-2009, 12:17
What was the original point of this post? If someone had answered that lizardmen were rubbish the OP wouldn't get them? Do you like the look of the army? Do you think you can paint it well? Do you like the narrative? Is it expensive to put together?

Skyth
14-03-2009, 22:32
Well, the other night I took the new lizards out against a VC player and managed a tie (Even though I lost my Slaan late in the game) Neither of us was using a truely nasty list (No steggies in mine, only 10 power dice in his and only the hatred banner).

The ignore 6's dicipline is great for going against the VC's.

It's hard to say what would happen with taking a power list vs a power list though (That is what the true rankings are)

Copenhagan
14-03-2009, 23:09
It all depends on the build. They can be the most powerful with 2 eotg, 1 skink chief on ancient with the war spear,1 ancient, and a oldblood on a carnisour but thats a power build. I would have to say that the are a well rounded and midrange list.

Lordy
15-03-2009, 00:33
As a beast player i've played 3 games vs Lizardmen, all defeats via Massacre, they are the toughest army i have played against although i have not played against Daemons or Vampires yet.

I don't agree with everyone saying they are balanced though, Saurus are too cheap for me which has been my main problem as posted on Herdstone.

Too early yet for me to start crying i guess though.

Kerill
15-03-2009, 05:31
As a beast player i've played 3 games vs Lizardmen, all defeats via Massacre, they are the toughest army i have played against although i have not played against Daemons or Vampires yet.

I don't agree with everyone saying they are balanced though, Saurus are too cheap for me which has been my main problem as posted on Herdstone.

Too early yet for me to start crying i guess though.

Lizardmen are a bad match up for beasts- spear saurus will beat herds so badly its not funny, no doubt about that, have you been running a doombull list? Its the only list that has a chance TBH, and against a WS3 army WS4 minotaurs will be hitting on 3s. 4 Khornate or nurgle minotaurs and a chariot (since saurus tend to be 6 wide) should be able to take down saurus well enough (10-12 kills followed by an autobreak, Khorne minotaurs can do it without the chariot (9 kills on average followed by autobreak). And minoataurs/DOs can take down a stegadon as long as you preserve US.

Thomus Darkblade
15-03-2009, 06:36
I'm thinking the Lizardmen are filling the gap between the big three and the "rest of em" 4th or third overall. I've only got 2 games in against the new Lizzies and I have a draw and a loss with my DE.

slingersam
15-03-2009, 10:29
Personally my sauras warriors block has allways failed me,
for some reason they could never make their points back.
So I might scrap that idea. Also is taking 2 skink priests
in 1000 point (6pd and 4 dispel) to much. They are not
EOTG.

Ri-xthoal Lord of Lustira
15-03-2009, 17:24
Have you try muti-charge with Saurus block along with another unit/stegadon? I did that it work as planned

rottahn
15-03-2009, 17:42
i agree with everyone else here. below VC,Demons, and DE. above, or at least the same power as empire/HE/WE.
EotG isnt all that its cracked up to be, usually a slann in a big block of temple guard is scary enough!