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Rirekon
06-03-2009, 09:33
I've always really liked the idea of an Ad Mech force (much like many other people I'm sure), and like most people I've looked to the IG Codex as a counts as option.
However I'm currently reading Mechanicum (please no spoilers, I'm not finished yet :)) and the descriptions of the Skitarii as large gene-enhanced killing machines make them sound like so much more than what the IG Codex would represent.

So what do people think about using the Space Marine Codex for counts as Ad Mech?

Power Armoured Marines= Skitarii/Servitors where appropriate (i.e. Devastators)
Terminators = Praetorians
Dreadnoughts = Knights (those mini titans)
Drop Pods = Tunneling devices
Apothecaries/Techmarines = Combat Enginseers of some kind

All would have appropriate conversions obviously ;)

Earthbeard
06-03-2009, 09:57
No reason why not.

Fluffwise they are more advanced than "mere" humans but not to the extent of Space Marines. Sure some units would be etc, some wouldn't.

But I think it works solidly as a count-as army as you suggest?

Brucopeloso
06-03-2009, 11:38
Mhh, how about using the Witch hunter dex?

Inquisitors can be used as tech priests.
Sisters and stormtroopers could be used as skitari.
Arco flagellant are perfect as CC skitari and/or close combat servitors with penitent engines standing in as heavy duty close combat constructs.
Inducted guard can be used as tech legion (largely unmodified humans).
Immolator and exorcist tanks can be used as modified rhinos as well.

Apologist
06-03-2009, 11:58
Skitarii is an extremely broad term that covers everything from well-equipped basic guardsmen; geno-enhanced frothing bionic monstrosities; augmented troops in full plate armour; near-completely converted tech-troopers to frothing lunatics in red robes with pointy sticks much as 'Imperial Guardsman' cover everything from the hordes of cavalry; musclebound demi-ogryn jungle fighters; four-foot tall ratling thieves; geno-enhanced and ill-fated albinos; ten-foot tall ogryns; penitent mutants; fur-wrapped barbarians to ultra-equipped and trained Stormtroopers.

Personally, I think that using the Space Marines codex is a bit lazy, and rather sells the marines short. After all, if the Mechanicus had these kind of troops as their basic forces, why would the Mechanicus need the Imperium?

I think the Witchhunter idea is a better fit but since it's extremely open anyway, why not try orks for brutal Mechanicus-esque berzerkers?

Chem-Dog
06-03-2009, 12:59
So what do people think about using the Space Marine Codex for counts as Ad Mech?

Power Armoured Marines= Skitarii/Servitors where appropriate (i.e. Devastators)
Terminators = Praetorians
Dreadnoughts = Knights (those mini titans)
Drop Pods = Tunneling devices
Apothecaries/Techmarines = Combat Enginseers of some kind

All would have appropriate conversions obviously ;)

Mechanicum got my mind wizzing too! who doesn't want a squadron of Knights rampaging across the battlefield?!

If you want to represent the Skitarii, I would say just use Scouts rather than Marines, no matter how hard they are or how gen-hanced they get, they are not as powerful as Astartes. Gameplay wise you get a lot of leeway with Snifles, Shotguns or BP/CCW combo.
For Knights, I'd be tempted to say just use the Ironclad as a "counts as" but the lack of a significant ranged weapon may make the Venerable dread a better option (count the Venerable re-roll as the Knight's Shields).

Praetorians are a difficult one, they are tough and incredibly well armed, certainly far too well equipped for Terminators to do Justice, with lack of any better alternatives I'm stuck between the choice of Attack Bike squadrons (up to 3 per FOC, 2 wounds and T5 each, Bolter and Hbolter armament as standard with option to upgrade to Mmelta) or Thunderfire Cannon (Big shooting, slow and trundly like Praetorians Comes with free techmarine!) but neither are ideal choices.

Drop Pods for Tunnellers (Moles :D) Yeah

Apothecary = Genetor
Tech Marine = Any Mechanicus Dude!



Skitarii is an extremely broad term that covers everything....

I don't think this is entirely true. I think it's just a term that, as yet, has to be formally defined meaning that every Johnny Hack thinks he can put his own slant on it. Just another reason GW need to pull a digit from an orifice (I leave the specifics to them) and produce Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus.

Also it's important to note that the Skitarii (and indeed, all of the mentioned troops) are PRE-HERESY The exact definition of what a Skitarii is now may differ from what they were then, the title being the only thing to have survived unchanged.

Tonberry
06-03-2009, 13:12
Skitarii is an extremely broad term

Here lies the problem with representing them using current codices. For example, one of the Soul Drinkers novels has a squad described as Skitarii who are practically just veteran guardsmen, with killy lasguns. Titanicus has Skitarii that would make marines wince, with huge cannons that make titans worry, as well as wild techno-berzerkers. S4 T4 A1 doesn't really cover this, S3 T3 even less. Furthermore, Knights are alot bigger and killier than dreadnoughts.
If I was going to do counts-as Skitarii, I'd go for Codex: Chaos Space Marines. All the cult troops lets you represent the varying degree of modifications available to the ad-mech. Khorne Berzerkers would be your gene-bulked lobotomised nutters, thousand suns would be your beamy death Skitarii with arm cannons and auxillary grenade launchers, simplified to an ap3 bolter :).
Daemon Princes could be your hulking monstrosities of flesh and metal, ripping apart battle tanks with waving mechandendrites,saw blades, power flails etc (S6 + MC), as well as having quite a bit of beamy death (psychic powers), also allowing for jetpacks/tracks/hover bikes(Hover bikes! - I felt this deserved its own parenthesis...Hover bikes!)(wings).
A defiler is pretty much the closest thing currently in 40k to a knight, they've got battle cannons and CCWs, although newer background (Mechanicus) gives them beamy death too, that's your lascannon upgrade.
Obliterators are your gun servitors modified to have beamy death pouring out of every orifice, whilst predators would make a basic kaban-project-esque robot.Electro priests... sorcerors?

Son of the Lion
06-03-2009, 13:25
Seconded on the Chaos Idea. I think the list gives a much more flexible range of troop types and a lot of the gifted bonuses / weapons could be re-specced as advanced tech.

Son of the Lion
06-03-2009, 13:28
Mechanicum
I don't think this is entirely true. I think it's just a term that, as yet, has to be formally defined meaning that every Johnny Hack thinks he can put his own slant on it. Just another reason GW need to pull a digit from an orifice (I leave the specifics to them) and produce Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus.



I actually really hope they don't do narrow down the concept of Skitarri, even if they go with one interpretation for rules purposes. The Imperium (or Mechanicum) is a huge place and I like the fact that not everything in it is uniformly the same from planet to planet.

EDIT: Sorry for double post, I thought I was editing the post above. Oops.

Rirekon
06-03-2009, 14:06
Thanks for all the ideas and comments :)


If I was going to do counts-as Skitarii, I'd go for Codex: Chaos Space Marines. All the cult troops lets you represent the varying degree of modifications available to the ad-mech. Khorne Berzerkers would be your gene-bulked lobotomised nutters, thousand suns would be your beamy death Skitarii with arm cannons and auxillary grenade launchers, simplified to an ap3 bolter :).
Daemon Princes could be your hulking monstrosities of flesh and metal, ripping apart battle tanks with waving mechandendrites,saw blades, power flails etc (S6 + MC), as well as having quite a bit of beamy death (psychic powers), also allowing for jetpacks/tracks/hover bikes(Hover bikes! - I felt this deserved its own parenthesis...Hover bikes!)(wings).
A defiler is pretty much the closest thing currently in 40k to a knight, they've got battle cannons and CCWs, although newer background (Mechanicus) gives them beamy death too, that's your lascannon upgrade.
Obliterators are your gun servitors modified to have beamy death pouring out of every orifice, whilst predators would make a basic kaban-project-esque robot.Electro priests... sorcerors?

That is a damn good idea, nice one! :D

Apologist
06-03-2009, 14:19
To semi-threadjack, 'Skitarii' is a defined term*: it's simply the Imperial Guard equivalent of the Mechanicus domains (Forgeworlds).

The sub-divisions (hypaspist, praetorian, myrmidon etc) form part of 'the Skitarii' in the same way as a sniper, engineer, infantryman etc. form part of 'the Imperial Guard'.


Also it's important to note that the Skitarii (and indeed, all of the mentioned troops) are PRE-HERESY The exact definition of what a Skitarii is now may differ from what they were then, the title being the only thing to have survived unchanged.
Numerous sources say this is wrong, from Soul Drinker to Titanicus to Titan Legions. Nowhere is it suggested that Skitarii is a title used exclusively pre-Heresy.

None of which, of course, invalidates any of the suggestions above. In fact, I like the idea of using a Scout-based force. Good one!

In response to the opening poster, my suggestion remains Witchhunters: but I'd say that the important thing is modelling everything imaginatively, creating a background-rich force (probably at the expense of 'competitiveness') and having a lot of fun exploring this mysterious but rich area of the background.

With that in mind, you could check out the Adeptus Mechanicus fora here (http://z6.invisionfree.com/adeptusmechanicus/index.php?act=idx), and/or check out the Tempus Fugitives Codex: Cult Mechanicus (http://www.tempusfugitives.co.uk/pdf/40k/Codex%20Cult%20Mechanicus.pdf) – probably the closest thing to an official codex you'll see.

+++
*Ref: Adeptus Titanicus, Adeptus Titanicus II, 40k 2nd ed., Space Marine, Epic, Epic 40,000

totgeboren
06-03-2009, 15:39
Numerous sources say this is wrong, from Soul Drinker to Titanicus to Titan Legions. Nowhere is it suggested that Skitarii is a title used exclusively pre-Heresy.


I think you should re-read the text you quoted. :P

Oh, I heard Forge World may be bringing out an AdMec armylist in the not too distant future. :)

Rirekon
09-03-2009, 11:11
Reading further through Mechanicus (damn but it's good!) and it mentions that Knights are 9 metres tall, that equates to about 6" table top height... 3 times that of a dreadnought!
Their killyness doesn't appear to be too extreme though really, beamy-death + choppy-death and a definite anti-armour focus. Hopefully they'll be some big scrap later in the book to give me a better picture heh

Thanks again for all the ideas :)

Ironmonger
09-03-2009, 15:33
To semi-threadjack, 'Skitarii' is a defined term*: it's simply the Imperial Guard equivalent of the Mechanicus domains (Forgeworlds).

The sub-divisions (hypaspist, praetorian, myrmidon etc) form part of 'the Skitarii' in the same way as a sniper, engineer, infantryman etc. form part of 'the Imperial Guard'.


Numerous sources say this is wrong, from Soul Drinker to Titanicus to Titan Legions. Nowhere is it suggested that Skitarii is a title used exclusively pre-Heresy.

None of which, of course, invalidates any of the suggestions above. In fact, I like the idea of using a Scout-based force. Good one!

In response to the opening poster, my suggestion remains Witchhunters: but I'd say that the important thing is modelling everything imaginatively, creating a background-rich force (probably at the expense of 'competitiveness') and having a lot of fun exploring this mysterious but rich area of the background.

With that in mind, you could check out the Adeptus Mechanicus fora here (http://z6.invisionfree.com/adeptusmechanicus/index.php?act=idx), and/or check out the Tempus Fugitives Codex: Cult Mechanicus (http://www.tempusfugitives.co.uk/pdf/40k/Codex%20Cult%20Mechanicus.pdf) probably the closest thing to an official codex you'll see.

+++
*Ref: Adeptus Titanicus, Adeptus Titanicus II, 40k 2nd ed., Space Marine, Epic, Epic 40,000

Well, thanks alot, Apologist! You took every word right out of my mouth ;)
I use the guard codex w/ DH/WH allies to have the Inq as an Archmagos, as well as having the options of Land Raiders and Russes mixed with waves of troops. As Apologist said, check out the link he posted to the Ad Mech forum: all kinds of nifty stuff for devotees of the Omnissiah!

Codsticker
09-03-2009, 18:20
Praetorians are a difficult one, they are tough and incredibly well armed, certainly far too well equipped for Terminators to do Justice, with lack of any better alternatives I'm stuck between the choice of Attack Bike squadrons (up to 3 per FOC, 2 wounds and T5 each, Bolter and Hbolter armament as standard with option to upgrade to Mmelta) or Thunderfire Cannon (Big shooting, slow and trundly like Praetorians Comes with free techmarine!) but neither are ideal choices.



Why not use GKT's for Praetorians or use the Deathwatch Killteam rules to represent them?

pringles978
09-03-2009, 21:34
cahlk up another vote for witch hunters, it gives you the best options for the skitari, in inducted guard, stormtroopers and sisters representing the elites.

SimonL
09-03-2009, 23:31
I always thought Guard would be the best fit...

-Commissars as Cyber-controllers
-Guard Troops as Tech Guard
-Stormtroopers as Skitarii
-Ogryns as Heavy Combat Servitors
-Sentinels as Heavy Scout Sevitors
-The various tanks as all sorts of warmachines
-Superheaviy tanks as Knights

Silvarius
10-03-2009, 00:06
I was think the Obliterators for the praetorians, and I very much agree with the Chaos list idea, but also maybe if you change the way a Defiler looks it would be a better suited Knight titan.

natsirtm
11-03-2009, 15:39
Have you seen Dave Taylor's ad mech army? Use's chaos list and is very fluffy (with beauty conversions as well).

Check out his blog - I saw these in WD but he may have something posted.
http://davetaylorminiatures.blogspot.com/

PondaNagura
11-03-2009, 16:21
any and all codices, human and xenos can be used to represent an admech force.
it just depends on the theme your trying to reach and your imagination.

what about slightly better than average armored warriors, who are still relatively human, have broad access to basic gear afforded most IG regiments (storm trooper)

or say they're devout (xenos) zealots of the Omnissiah, and so have been blessed or recovered holy tech enable to tear flesh and bone asunder, bequeathed to servitor patrols lead by techno-demagogues, etc [necrons]

marine work well to represent the over modified/genebulked troops and access to weapons not readily afforded by the masses of guardsmen.
large scout regiments to rep skitarii troops, a little above there techguard counterparts, and still; recognized as somewhat human.
i always like the idea of praetorians by using bike rules. fast-paced shooty guys who if need be can swoop in and out of HtH situations, scouting ahead of the rest of the force.

witchhunters afford you to use bolters and power armor, but with human stats, though not as diverse in weapons, you can always commission the aid of servitor ranks for heavy weapons (inducted IG heavy weapon platoons)

chaos gives you the same measure as marines, but a little more flexibility in base stats and some more extreme weapons (noise marines, plague marines), gifts of the Omnissiah

maybe you want ranged shooty long-rifles with agrav vehicles and super bionic praetorians (tau battlesuits).

and exploratory team that is equipped for the depths of space in space-hulk recovery, and so have full-body power armor, who prefer rapid forward deployment with short ranged weaponry and jetpacks to move around in closed floating environs. maybe escorted by electropriests and legio cybernetica (eldar/jetbike army)

or teaming masses of enthralled lobotomized servitor ranks, controlled by central technomagi/moderati, the size of dreadnoughts; maybe infected by technovirus that seeks out and enthralls the population of planets, with quick/cheap modifications to deal with HtH and ranged combat. (nids)

i forget my thoughts on orks/DE
[this comes up from time to time and i really should copy/paste this]

Ironmonger
11-03-2009, 17:28
Don't forget Hortwerth's method of Guard with Abhuman-Slave Levies: stalking slowly across the battlefield, ranks upon ranks of vat-grown skitarii with incorporated lasguns and tracked heavy weapons, their dirty red robes blowing in the wind as autocannons and lascannons fire through the inexorable advance, supported by servitors, Enginseers and lumbering tanks:D:chrome::D

Oberon
11-03-2009, 17:48
WH codex can do admech nicely too, as it has access to well armoured and a bit less well armoured, but still well equipped men, a wide range of machines (pretty much every guard and SM vehicle, plus some variants of their own like the exorcist) and very customizable characters in inquisitor lords and canonesses. Faith could be explained with technobabble of some sort too of course. I've gone this route, as I wanted to play with my admech, and not only convert&paint it. The AM codex Apologist linked (tempus fugitives one) is great, but as it is unofficial a counts as-route is needed IMO.

I think SM are too tough to represent AM, as they are basically just men+some bits (some more than others, but to be in the SM league, one would need lots of them) and IG (my first try for counts as) became too expensive too fast (all those doctrines). Chaos I think suffers from the same problem SM does, as we don't have LATD anymore (as official codex I mean).

I put my AM force away when the 5ed came, but I just got them back and am preparing a game with them to see if they can still be something more than "just" fun and cool.

tacoo
11-03-2009, 23:49
hey im actually trying to make my own AdMech codex. i read sould drinkers and the admech book so those are a good basis. also i have been using Lexicanum to see all the different unit types. so far there basic infintry is called hypastpist, and are just suposed to be slight stronger guardsmen armed with lasguns i a sense, i dont have my blue prin ton me but my hypastpist has a statline of this prety much
WS 2
BS4
S3
T3
W1
I2
A1
LD*
SV4+
i have a rule involving there LD. i plan on posting my codex as it stands up on warseer tomorror.(that is the one word i can never spell)

Xardian
12-03-2009, 03:59
hey im actually trying to make my own AdMech codex. i read sould drinkers and the admech book so those are a good basis. also i have been using Lexicanum to see all the different unit types. so far there basic infintry is called hypastpist, and are just suposed to be slight stronger guardsmen armed with lasguns i a sense, i dont have my blue prin ton me but my hypastpist has a statline of this prety much
WS 2
BS4
S3
T3
W1
I2
A1
LD*
SV4+
i have a rule involving there LD. i plan on posting my codex as it stands up on warseer tomorror.(that is the one word i can never spell)

Looks like a Tau Firewarrior. Considered using thier codex? that'd let you play it competitively as well as friendly if you want.