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View Full Version : Eldrad- Worth the points ?



SpooX
07-03-2009, 03:52
personally he is my fav character to field but i was wondering what others think? is he worth his points or are u better with normal seers ? how dose he compare to others in hes "price"(points) category ? thank to anyone who replies.

blackroyal
07-03-2009, 03:54
Look at it this way... to build an equivalent "nilla" seer is more points...

holmcross
07-03-2009, 03:56
I'd say he is the most powerful special character in the game, definitely worth the points.

I can't think of any other special character that brings a comproable amount of support to the army, let alone his incredible synergy with Eldar units.

Nothing in that points range, at least.

mughi3
07-03-2009, 06:29
eldrad and retinue in CC with 3 fex's 2 tyrants, some warriors and winning.....you do the math.


Seriously powerful character, even though he is dead, i would have no problem if you had the proper craftworld themed list but having him show up in every eldar list is a tad annoying. about the only thing he has to fear is psycannons or incinerators.

Orkeosaurus
07-03-2009, 06:32
Probably the most commonly used Special Character in the game, to the point where he often elicits eye-rolls outside of an Ulthwe army.

(Also, does Eldrad not have an armor save then?)

holmcross
07-03-2009, 06:50
I'm fairly certain Eldrad only has an invulnerable save from his rune armor.

mughi3
07-03-2009, 06:59
Nope no armor save just a 3+ invul re-rollable.

Heimlich
07-03-2009, 07:39
Special characters are never worth it

Koryphaus
07-03-2009, 07:51
When he costs so little over that of a normal Farseer, why would you not?

It is exactly the same as taking Chaplain Cassius over a normal Chaplain, there is no reason not to.

Hellfury
07-03-2009, 09:08
He is definitely worth it. I don't play eldar anymore, but I can say that I wouldn't roll my eyes if I saw one against me every game. Especially if they weren't in an ulthwe army.

The old restrictions are gone, so play him in whatever type of craftworld you like.

To roll at eyes at you for bringing a legal list is TFG behavior.

Eldrad is quite powerful, or at least can be in the right hands. He is easily worth the points. Compared to two lash princes, I would sat eldard is BY FAR less annoying to play against.

Heimlich
07-03-2009, 09:13
It is exactly the same as taking Chaplain Cassius over a normal Chaplain, there is no reason not to.

Except when you want to use a Chaplain with a jetpack. Or a Chaplain in terminator armor.

mughi3
07-03-2009, 09:37
Special characters are never worth it

Sounds like somebody is stuck in a past edition.

Not only are they worth it, thanks to GWs new design policy they are pretty much mandatory if you want your army to work(or even be legal in some cases like deathwing) rather your taking eldrad, wazdakka, vulkan he'stan or belial.

Bunnahabhain
07-03-2009, 10:01
Eldrad is far superior to any farseer you can build for equivilent points, the amount of support he can provide to an Eldar force is awesome.

He's just as much as of a steal as most of the new marine captins, but there are lots of them, so any one will be seen less often than Eldrad.

I really wish GW had not made it compulsory, or effectively so, to take certain special characters. The masters of the death wing and raven wing are the worst examples, you literally cannot build your army without them, but lots of others are not far behind.

If the standard version of whatever character could take the really useful upgrade, ie the FOC changing thing, the ability to throw out 3 powers a turn, the re-rolling reserves, etc, etc, and left the SC being unique merely through:
A slight Stat upgrade ( ie not the random T6 for a marine chaplin...)
A really nice model
A slight points break. You pay 5-10pts less, and you get the set character, with minimal choice on armaments etc. Too many of them seem to get a 30-50pts discount for being a SC...

Shangrila
07-03-2009, 10:03
I think hes awesome... But i play ulthwe so if i didnt have im ide say im not very fluffy which is dumb. like Ravenguard with no shrike.... just my opinion though.

shin'keiro
07-03-2009, 13:28
Yes i think he is... But perhaps wihout any other HQ, just him.

Snotteef
07-03-2009, 14:15
I have to agree that he's MORE than worth his points. He's FAR superior to any normal farseer and cheap to boot. I hate him with the fiery passion of 1000 burning suns!

Hi_ex_lover
07-03-2009, 16:00
I hate Eldrad...3 wraithlords, and an avatar with min-maxed troops choices in an 1850 battle... god, i should have killed all the wraithlords and the avatar twice over before they even hit my lines. As it is, i killed the avatar and 2 wraithlords... then got munched off of the table..
Oh, that was with guard,.

massey
07-03-2009, 16:26
It depends what you want to use him for. If you want a maxed-out farseer who can do everything, he's worth it. If you just want a cheap farseer with one or two powers, then he's not. Eldar is a prime example of the diminishing returns you get with characters (that is, the more you load them up with stuff, the less chance they'll have to use everything they bought), but a lot of people can't see past "he's cheaper than a regular farseer!!!"

I think he's fine.

mchmr6677
07-03-2009, 16:41
It depends what you want to use him for. If you want a maxed-out farseer who can do everything, he's worth it. If you just want a cheap farseer with one or two powers, then he's not. Eldar is a prime example of the diminishing returns you get with characters (that is, the more you load them up with stuff, the less chance they'll have to use everything they bought), but a lot of people can't see past "he's cheaper than a regular farseer!!!"

I think he's fine.

I completely agree with massey on this. If you need double casting of the same power from one seer, Eldrad is invaluable. But if you don't he will be far over priced for what he allows you.

In a game against Blackroyal, Eldrad's third power ended up being Eldritch Strom over and over because there simply was nothing else for him to do. In that game I would have been better served with a regular seer with fewer powers and some additional support for the points difference.

However, in my current Avengers of Doom list, he is absolutely invaluable because he can guide two squads while dooming their target. This frees up the other seer (a basic fortuneseer) and his council to go hunting for tanks or hidden heavy weapons.

Lazarus15
07-03-2009, 17:25
I play a themed Ulthwe List, and pretty much always use Eldrad, another Farseer, four squads of guardians, usually two squads of aspect warriors (banshees/firedragons and Dark Reapers), and other shooting nastiness.

I think he is invaluable to an eldar army, but just my own opinion is that he should have some stipulations on use, IE: Must include at least two-three squads of guardians or something like that. Must include a squad of warlock body guards to represent the council. I think it is perfectly fine to use him, but I give my buddy some good natured banter when he uses Eldrad in a Mech list.

dal9ll
07-03-2009, 20:10
I'd say he is the most powerful special character in the game, definitely worth the points.

I can't think of any other special character that brings a comproable amount of support to the army, let alone his incredible synergy with Eldar units.

Nothing in that points range, at least.

I agree. Eldrad is broken trash and him only costing 160 points just goes to show that everyone at GW must have been on PCP or something the whole time they were writing the Eldar Codex.

He's got 3 wounds, a 3+ invul. save, Eternal Warrior, a Witchblade, and enough Psychic Powers to make a Lord of Change crap his feathers. Ive lost games because of Eldrad's presence alone. He's got an answer to everything, just like everything else in that damn Codex.

mchmr6677
07-03-2009, 20:33
I agree. Eldrad is broken trash and him only costing 160 points just goes to show that everyone at GW must have been on PCP or something the whole time they were writing the Eldar Codex.

He's got 3 wounds, a 3+ invul. save, Eternal Warrior, a Witchblade, and enough Psychic Powers to make a Lord of Change crap his feathers. Ive lost games because of Eldrad's presence alone. He's got an answer to everything, just like everything else in that damn Codex.

Pardon me but, what? 210pts, no Eternal Warrior, and no more powers then Tigurius. He is a support asset, and if you lost because of his presence, then you just didn't play very well.

Cocaloch
07-03-2009, 21:16
Eldrad is good support but like the rest of eldar he seems to work well only if used in synergy with other units.

dal9ll
07-03-2009, 21:35
Pardon me but, what? 210pts, no Eternal Warrior, and no more powers then Tigurius. He is a support asset, and if you lost because of his presence, then you just didn't play very well.


Wow he's really 210 points and no Eternal Warrior? My opponent said he was 160. I guess I need to have a conversation with him about truthfulness...

And by the fact that I was playing Slaaneshi Daemons (namely Daemonettes) its perfectly understandable for me to say that I lost because of Eldrad. He was able to take out entire units of 14 Daemonettes single-handedly with the stupid non-scattering Eldritch Storm so dont pretend to have ANY idea what happened in those games. Seriously, screw you for assuming I didnt play very well.

volair
07-03-2009, 21:36
Try running him with a unit of scorpians in a wave serpent, together with a second unit of scorpians in another wave serpent, and you will see his power. He fortunes the two wave serpents on turn one for rerolling the turbo boost cover save, then next turn he fortunes the scorpians and dooms their target, effectively making them significantly more powerful than berserkers (3 times as resilient against S4 guns with AP4 or higher, and slightly more powerful offensively).

mchmr6677
07-03-2009, 21:43
I see that the mistake was not your's in this case dal9ll and apoligize for my poor manners. The mistake appears to have indeed been on the part of your opponent. He was wrong not just on EW and Eldrad's pts, but also on the Eldritch Storm. Several threads on Warseer as well as the Adepticon FAQ have come to the conclusion that Eldritch Storm scatters just like any other blast weapon.

You should indeed have that talk with your 'friend' and see if he wasn't sure of his own rules.

Again, please forgive my insult.

massey
08-03-2009, 05:33
He can't fortune a wave serpent if he's not on the table.

Poseidal
08-03-2009, 09:34
And by the fact that I was playing Slaaneshi Daemons (namely Daemonettes) its perfectly understandable for me to say that I lost because of Eldrad. He was able to take out entire units of 14 Daemonettes single-handedly with the stupid non-scattering Eldritch Storm so dont pretend to have ANY idea what happened in those games. Seriously, screw you for assuming I didnt play very well.
Eldritch Storm doesn't scatter and is available for normal farseers as well.

In fact, for the price of Eldrad, he could have had two ES Farseers or an ES Farseer + Fire Prism.

To take out a 14 strong with one ES, it would require you to bunch them all up so all 14 are under the Large Blast and then for him to wound them all (50% due to the S/T of ES/nettes) and then you to fail all of their invulnerable saves; very unlikely.

He would require (on average rolling) more than 3 to wipe out a 14-strong squad like that.


I see that the mistake was not your's in this case dal9ll and apoligize for my poor manners. The mistake appears to have indeed been on the part of your opponent. He was wrong not just on EW and Eldrad's pts, but also on the Eldritch Storm. Several threads on Warseer as well as the Adepticon FAQ have come to the conclusion that Eldritch Storm scatters just like any other blast weapon.
No, the discussion on this board's rule discussion came up with conclusion that it still doesn't scatter.

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167585&highlight=scatter

volair
08-03-2009, 15:21
He can't fortune a wave serpent if he's not on the table.

Sure he can. He can cast any non-shooting attack psychic power while inside a transport.

dal9ll
08-03-2009, 19:40
Eldritch Storm doesn't scatter and is available for normal farseers as well.

In fact, for the price of Eldrad, he could have had two ES Farseers or an ES Farseer + Fire Prism.

To take out a 14 strong with one ES, it would require you to bunch them all up so all 14 are under the Large Blast and then for him to wound them all (50% due to the S/T of ES/nettes) and then you to fail all of their invulnerable saves; very unlikely.

He would require (on average rolling) more than 3 to wipe out a 14-strong squad like that.

No, the discussion on this board's rule discussion came up with conclusion that it still doesn't scatter.

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167585&highlight=scatter

Wow you seem to think you know a whole lot huh? For one thing, 2 ES Farseers isnt necessarily strictly better than Eldrad. Remember he can use Eldritch Storm TWICE in one turn, easily equating what the Farseers could do. Plus, with a 3+ re-rollable invul.save, you can argue that hes even harder to kill than Fateweaver, since Fateweaver cannot hide in units.

Now regarding the Daemonettes, he usually covered 12 out of the 14 with the pie-plate, re-rolling wounds, and its only a 5+ invul save which isnt that good. Now realize he can use it twice in one turn. Plus we all know that dice rolls dont all "average out" so you cannot assume the most "likely" rolls will always occur.

Jaysis.

Poseidal
08-03-2009, 19:49
Wow you seem to think you know a whole lot huh?
Thanks.

For one thing, 2 ES Farseers isnt necessarily strictly better than Eldrad. Remember he can use Eldritch Storm TWICE in one turn, equating what. Now regarding the Daemonettes, he usually covered 12 out of the 14 with the pie-plate, re-rolling wounds, and its only a 5+ invul save which isnt that good. Now realize he can use it twice in one turn. Plus we all know that dice rolls dont all "average out" so you cannot assume the most "likely" rolls will always occur.

Jaysis.
With doom increase the damage by ~50% so with good rolls he could make it in 2 (well, with one if his rolls are fantastic). Thing is, ES only has a range of 18"; that's getting quite near to your units so you should be able to get him into combat not long after that. Unless he's in a Seer Council (and you can still target him if he is; he also won't have cast Fortune in either case) he should crumple quickly enough as he only has one attack on profile. Seer council is still dangerous though, so I won't blame you for not risking that.

Also, we know dice don't average out. But you can't really blame good dice rolls on a character.

mchmr6677
09-03-2009, 15:14
If you want to stop your opponent from using Eldrad against your daemons, there is a simple answer: The Blue Scribes and Boon of Mutation. Roll to hit (2/3 chance) and then he rolls toughness (1/3 chance). A 22% success rate isn't good, but it will be enough to scare your opponent away from haveing Eldrad out in the open.

Hrogoff the Destructor
09-03-2009, 16:28
I think Eldrad is unarguably the most price efficient hero in the game. He's so common around here you'd think all the Eldar do is sit around cloning him all day.

USER1
09-03-2009, 17:31
Im pretty sure eldrad can only use one ES a turn, theres no RAW reason for it to scatter though.

Snagtoof
09-03-2009, 17:46
Yes, a psycher can only use one psychic shooting ability a turn, so one mind war or ES. Eldrad can use 3 powers, but that doesn't let him use more shooting powers.

Fixer
09-03-2009, 18:03
Ahh Eldrad Ulthran.
Posthumously leading the entire Eldar race.

dal9ll
10-03-2009, 18:46
@ mchmr6677:

Funny thing you should say that. Both times I played this Eldar player, Ive run the Blue Scribes hidden in a unit of Horrors for exactly this reason. Unfortunately, the first game I rolled a 1 to hit then got killed by Destructors and the second game the unit got killed by a unit of Warp Spiders before they could even get a turn of shooting in, hahaha

@snagtoof:

Im pretty positive that Eldrad has a special rule that allows him to use two psychic powers in one turn, and also two of the same powers. look into it.

Leo
10-03-2009, 19:17
yes, he can use two psychic powers of the same kind in one turn but this doesnŽt allow him to fire more than one weapon and using Eldritch Strom is considered firing a weapon, so only one Eldritch Storm for Eldrad.

For the OP:
Yep, Eldrad is certainly worth his points. The fact that he appears in plenty of web lists and in tournaments should tell you as much.

IŽd go as far as saying that he is the most effective special character in the game. Most other characters require you to build the rest of the army accordingly to make them really mean (like Vulkan und Shrike) but Eldrad fits virtually any Eldar army and can do wonderful things for them.

The only thing that isnŽt what it used to be is Divination because this can be countered in fifth Edition by the usage of deep striking and reserves.

Warforger
10-03-2009, 19:31
@ mchmr6677:

Funny thing you should say that. Both times I played this Eldar player, Ive run the Blue Scribes hidden in a unit of Horrors for exactly this reason. Unfortunately, the first game I rolled a 1 to hit then got killed by Destructors and the second game the unit got killed by a unit of Warp Spiders before they could even get a turn of shooting in, hahaha

@snagtoof:

Im pretty positive that Eldrad has a special rule that allows him to use two psychic powers in one turn, and also two of the same powers. look into it.

I looked into it, he can't use the same psychic power in one turn, the only difference between him and a fully upgraded non-jet bike riding Farseer is a 3+ invul save and a S9 Power weapon (he doesn't have have that many attacks so it doesn't really matter) and all 5 of the powers (normal seers are limited to 4).

I personally don't see myself using him, Eldar are amazingly good without him anyway.

the blind knight
10-03-2009, 19:50
Sorry if this is off topic,but I have to say it.


The bset thing about Eldrad is,when he dies to a grenade launcher shot by a seriously pissed off Guardsmen.:p(Actually happened to me)

You would think that they would give Ethernal Warrior to a t3 special charatcher worth so much damn points.

Souleater
10-03-2009, 20:31
Oh, I don't know...perhaps they considered that and thought 'Nah, Eldar are meant to be fragile.'

:D

Thud
10-03-2009, 20:59
I looked into it, he can't use the same psychic power in one turn,

Assuming you meant to use the word 'twice' after psychic power; I advise you to check out page 51 of the Eldar codex, more specifically under the heading "Staff of Ulthamar".


The bset thing about Eldrad is,when he dies to a grenade launcher shot by a seriously pissed off Guardsmen.:p(Actually happened to me)

You would think that they would give Ethernal Warrior to a t3 special charatcher worth so much damn points.

Of course, Eldrad is T4 so he can't be instant killed by a grenade launcher, but let's not get carried away with this reality business. ;)

Warforger
10-03-2009, 21:33
Yah T4 is awesome, but he's not a combat character so no EW, my example would be Mephiston with a 4+ invulnerable and EW, wold be slightly OP'd but whatever.

The question is what is he doing out in the open, put him in a squad, he has some combat potential, but it isn't that good (has a whopping 1 attack base). I use Mephiston regulary and see how he can suffer if he is targeted

dal9ll
10-03-2009, 22:23
So my opponent used Army Builder to make his army list but it seems as though some things were inaccurate to the Codex. Does anyone know if Army Builder has any deficiencies or anything that might make it differ from the Codex? <see my other posts>

Hes really not the kind of guy to cheat. I think he just was mistaken.

Marshal Augustine
10-03-2009, 22:30
army builder has been known to be buggy. As well as being prone to the machinations of opponents who modify point values and the like on the program.

I think Eldrad is one of the best characters out there... I think no one has mentioned his ability to re-deploy units before the game begins??? this is an amazing ability and should not be underestimated, being able to deploy (and usually go) first and then be able to react to your opponents deployment is just too good sometimes!

Warforger
10-03-2009, 22:55
Exactly, often times going first is not nearly as important as deployment. If your opponet is fielding Abaddon for example and is deploying first, then you can just deploy in a fashion that you just avoid him. It is very important for mobile armies like Blood Angels or Saim Hann Eldar.

Lord Solar Plexus
11-03-2009, 08:16
I can't think of any other special character that brings a comproable amount of support to the army, let alone his incredible synergy with Eldar units.

Nothing in that points range, at least.

I don't know what Eldrad costs but the Fateweaver makes for an excellent support character.

mchmr6677
11-03-2009, 13:23
army builder has been known to be buggy. As well as being prone to the machinations of opponents who modify point values and the like on the program.

I think Eldrad is one of the best characters out there... I think no one has mentioned his ability to re-deploy units before the game begins??? this is an amazing ability and should not be underestimated, being able to deploy (and usually go) first and then be able to react to your opponents deployment is just too good sometimes!

Divination only matters if you are going first. It used to be far more important in 4th with the 'I-place-You-place' set-up rules. It allowed you to reposition those HS slots to best effect.

The one place that you can still make good use of divination requires specific circumstance: Dawn of War deployment with you going first. Place a unit or two at the 24" line against a horde opponent, forcing them to deploy 18" away, and then divination those two units back into a safe position. The horde opponent will not like this very much at all.

the blind knight
11-03-2009, 16:59
Assuming you meant to use the word 'twice' after psychic power; I advise you to check out page 51 of the Eldar codex, more specifically under the heading "Staff of Ulthamar".



Of course, Eldrad is T4 so he can't be instant killed by a grenade launcher, but let's not get carried away with this reality business. ;)


O God,I am hoping he isnt reading this,that was the only time I saw a grown man cry over 40k.

Mattfreakboy
12-03-2009, 21:18
Some fun facts.
Eldrad is indeed T4.
He doesnt have a re-rollable inv unless he or another farseer casts fortune.
His divination ability allows him reposition d3+1 units after deployment. Before scouts move(need to confirm)
He only has 1 base attack.
He can only use 1 shooting attack per turn,psychic or normal. Both MW and ES are considered shooting attacks.
He costs 210 points

Orkeosaurus
12-03-2009, 21:49
To roll at eyes at you for bringing a legal list is TFG behavior.Who died and made you king of the direction people can point their eyes? :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: